porsche cayman 3.4s or audi tt rs
Discussion
ooid said:
If you are really concerned about the "beack seat" put a few thousand pounds more and go for 911, 997.2! (2009 onwards ideally)
TT is good but not that special, imho.
£25k won't get a 997.2 try from £35k!TT is good but not that special, imho.
If I had a budget of £25k I would try and find a gen2 manual caymanS but that might be tough so failing that I would opt for a nice 2.9 Cayman but I wouldn't touch a gen1 Cayman due to the m97 engine woes or neither an Audi TT as you might as well have a golf!
Edited by GT4P on Monday 10th October 22:35
. There have been a few 997.2 starting from 30-31k, private not trade. 
xjay1337 said:
TTRS is faster, far more tunable, has more suspension and handling upgrades available at a lower price, more well specced, and just as nice to drive for 90% of the time. Also has a nicer interior by a mile.
Also TTRS is much more reliable and more economical, cheaper to service, run, repair.
Cayman is slow all things considered, especially through the gears, not that economical, comparatively very expensive to run and unreliable. Has a better chassis once you push past 90%
Of course, on a picturesque mountain road in Wales, on the 6.2 days a year it's not raining or stuffed with traffic, the Cayman will be more fun.
But most of the time, on the A27 to Worthing when it's raining, the TTRS is just as much of an enjoyable car but it won't be surprised by a remapped Passat estate.
You won't find that said here because it's Porsche owners club! They'll all be out with their scored cylinder blocks shortly saying "gerrof my land!"
Always puzzles me that people want AWD as soon as there is a bit of rain. AWD only adds traction by spreading torque but not outright grip for cornering or breaking.Also TTRS is much more reliable and more economical, cheaper to service, run, repair.
Cayman is slow all things considered, especially through the gears, not that economical, comparatively very expensive to run and unreliable. Has a better chassis once you push past 90%
Of course, on a picturesque mountain road in Wales, on the 6.2 days a year it's not raining or stuffed with traffic, the Cayman will be more fun.
But most of the time, on the A27 to Worthing when it's raining, the TTRS is just as much of an enjoyable car but it won't be surprised by a remapped Passat estate.
You won't find that said here because it's Porsche owners club! They'll all be out with their scored cylinder blocks shortly saying "gerrof my land!"
Dr S said:
xjay1337 said:
TTRS is faster, far more tunable, has more suspension and handling upgrades available at a lower price, more well specced, and just as nice to drive for 90% of the time. Also has a nicer interior by a mile.
Also TTRS is much more reliable and more economical, cheaper to service, run, repair.
Cayman is slow all things considered, especially through the gears, not that economical, comparatively very expensive to run and unreliable. Has a better chassis once you push past 90%
Of course, on a picturesque mountain road in Wales, on the 6.2 days a year it's not raining or stuffed with traffic, the Cayman will be more fun.
But most of the time, on the A27 to Worthing when it's raining, the TTRS is just as much of an enjoyable car but it won't be surprised by a remapped Passat estate.
You won't find that said here because it's Porsche owners club! They'll all be out with their scored cylinder blocks shortly saying "gerrof my land!"
Always puzzles me that people want AWD as soon as there is a bit of rain. AWD only adds traction by spreading torque but not outright grip for cornering or breaking.Also TTRS is much more reliable and more economical, cheaper to service, run, repair.
Cayman is slow all things considered, especially through the gears, not that economical, comparatively very expensive to run and unreliable. Has a better chassis once you push past 90%
Of course, on a picturesque mountain road in Wales, on the 6.2 days a year it's not raining or stuffed with traffic, the Cayman will be more fun.
But most of the time, on the A27 to Worthing when it's raining, the TTRS is just as much of an enjoyable car but it won't be surprised by a remapped Passat estate.
You won't find that said here because it's Porsche owners club! They'll all be out with their scored cylinder blocks shortly saying "gerrof my land!"
Dr S said:
Always puzzles me that people want AWD as soon as there is a bit of rain. AWD only adds traction by spreading torque but not outright grip for cornering or breaking.
you get a lot more cornering traction though, so it still means you go round corners faster as if the back wheels spin the car pulls you though it with the front! try the same corner in the sleet with a M3 and you are 1/2 as slow as you manage over steer ! (does not even have to snow)braking you get all 4 wheels and the drive train giving you more engine braking so again shorter stop times :-) but yes braking is ni on just the same.
try a 4WD TT it is crazy just how fast you can push on vs a 2WD car in bad weather.
4wd is fun in bad weather as the system will find you the traction in any of the 4 wheels rather then the BMW spinning it back wheels or my Ford ST3 sitting there spinning it's front out tight bends, I can be torque steering fighting traction though to 3rd gear , the TT will just **** off out of site lol
traction, grip, friction who cares the 4WD system will out corner anything in bad weather, watch a rally stage timed 2wd vs 4WD :-)
while all the Car freaks will show off and just say it's traction NOT grip, the net result is a faster car on roads A to B.
for a novice who does not know how to drive 4WD in the snow then yes the corner speeds will be the same, again watch a rally stage ;-)
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 11th October 08:58
My wife has a TT and I have a Cayman S. Both are good but I would always take the Cayman for a blast rather than the TT.
I do think the TT is better built and nothing has gone wrong with it whereas my Cayman has required a new Cat on one side and replacement air con pipes to stop a leak. The steering rack is now leaking.
Both are on about 40k miles.
I do think the TT is better built and nothing has gone wrong with it whereas my Cayman has required a new Cat on one side and replacement air con pipes to stop a leak. The steering rack is now leaking.
Both are on about 40k miles.
My experience of TTS 4WD over 15 months of ownership was... poor.
Don't get me wrong, it never let me down but the trouble was I never knew what was going on. How was the power being shared between front and rear axles? Because of this I never had a handle on how the car would perform in any given road conditions, whether dry or snowing. It made it, in my mind, unpredictable. And rather dull.
Prior to that my long term car was an E46 330ci. RWD, so not so much traction? Rear end happy? Yes, both.
But, I always knew where the power was. At the rear, never at the front. And that's what made it so predictable and such fun to drive "on the edge" so that the rear might just slip away a tiny bit and then be easily recovered. With the TTS a wheel or two slipping made the car think "what the hell's going on! Quick, shift some power to the other wheels!!!" and that would mean suddenly I wasn't in control, the car had taken over.
There's a favourite mini roundabout near me where, in the BMW or the 981, if the road is clear I can dart in and around it whilst just sliding a little on exit (be careful as a new 981 owner - it's different!). In the TTS this never happened. It just went round with no drama every time. But then I never pushed it to the same extent. And in the TTS I never exited that roundabout with a little smile on my face.
Don't get me wrong, it never let me down but the trouble was I never knew what was going on. How was the power being shared between front and rear axles? Because of this I never had a handle on how the car would perform in any given road conditions, whether dry or snowing. It made it, in my mind, unpredictable. And rather dull.
Prior to that my long term car was an E46 330ci. RWD, so not so much traction? Rear end happy? Yes, both.
But, I always knew where the power was. At the rear, never at the front. And that's what made it so predictable and such fun to drive "on the edge" so that the rear might just slip away a tiny bit and then be easily recovered. With the TTS a wheel or two slipping made the car think "what the hell's going on! Quick, shift some power to the other wheels!!!" and that would mean suddenly I wasn't in control, the car had taken over.
There's a favourite mini roundabout near me where, in the BMW or the 981, if the road is clear I can dart in and around it whilst just sliding a little on exit (be careful as a new 981 owner - it's different!). In the TTS this never happened. It just went round with no drama every time. But then I never pushed it to the same extent. And in the TTS I never exited that roundabout with a little smile on my face.
So you are saying the TTS was a better car than you are driver really :-) as it could get you round the roundabout no issues and faster !
put In a wet road and the TT would be twice as fast round the corner while you fight over steer in the BMW !
I have had 4x 4WD TT's you can tell which wheels is doing what once you get used to it and use it to power though or even tail out with it.
put In a wet road and the TT would be twice as fast round the corner while you fight over steer in the BMW !
I have had 4x 4WD TT's you can tell which wheels is doing what once you get used to it and use it to power though or even tail out with it.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 11th October 10:35
Porsche911R said:
So you are saying the TTS was a better car than you are driver really :-) as it could get you round the roundabout no issues and faster !
put In a wet road and the TT would be twice as fast round the corner while you fight over steer in the BMW !
I have had 4x 4WD TT's you can tell which wheels is doing what once you get used to it and use it to power though or even tail out with it.
Oh yes, of course! But no issues = dull put In a wet road and the TT would be twice as fast round the corner while you fight over steer in the BMW !
I have had 4x 4WD TT's you can tell which wheels is doing what once you get used to it and use it to power though or even tail out with it.
Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 11th October 10:35
Yes. Fighting = fun
Whoopeeeee!!
Porsche911R said:
no issue means not driving fast enough ! as stated I could get the back out of my TTRS no issue.
even the last TTS I ran as last years winter hack had over steer if you knew now to do it.
The OP, like myself who is just an ex-RAC competition license holder, may not have the superb driving skills you exhibit.even the last TTS I ran as last years winter hack had over steer if you knew now to do it.
At the end of the day it depends what the OP wants... you can see on here there are 2 schools of thought.
On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
HighwayStar said:
At the end of the day it depends what the OP wants... you can see on here there are 2 schools of thought.
On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
I think that sums it up nicely. On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
HighwayStar said:
At the end of the day it depends what the OP wants... you can see on here there are 2 schools of thought.
On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
I think that sums it up nicely. On the one hand the likes of xjay & 911R where it's all about ultimate performance, ultimate speed, 4WD, ability to go fast in the wet. Nothing wrong with that, that's how they like it. Others here, DJMC, me... it's not about ultimate speed, being the fastest on the road, faster A-B.
I've had 3 TT's.... one being a TTS... Had it 5yrs. Lovely to look at, nice place to be, very reliable, fast but jeez it was boring. I test drove an RS, yes it was silly fast but it's just a trim level... it just felt the same as my TTS only faster. No involvement, no feedback. Detached. If it could've kept up with a 458 I wouldn't have wanted one. A lot the pro RS guys major on the speed and for £600 or so you can chip it get more performance, more speed, lower 0-60 etc... and if you speed £3k it'll be faster still. It's not all about speed for everyone. And 4WD... well simply that's not for everyone either. I've not fallen of the r
I chopped my TTS in for a 981 Cayman S and on a twisty country road... it flows in a way no TT I've ever driven flows through bends. Its certainly more involving... the steering doesn't tell you too much but it's way betters than both my TTS and the new TTS. Yes the RS would be faster everywhere and in the wet but that's meaningless to me if I feel a passenger. And, I've not fallen off the road in the rain at the first hint of a corner because RWD.
And of course the Cayman is a proper from the ground up mid engined sports car.
The RS is a front wheel drive biads 4WD Golf based sport car.
In coupe form it's a better alround car than the Cayman, more flexibility with a biggish boot and folding rear seats if that's what you need. The Cayman is the sports car though. The driving position in the Porsche is way better than the TT.
So, if the OP needs a fast alrounder then it's really the RS.
If it's all about the speed and maintaining maximum pace in all weathers, the RS again but...
If it's about enjoyment, fun and having a proper sports car and not outright speed... it's the Cayman.
Your summary matches what one reviewer described as
"One is a sporty coupé, the other is a sports car."
And so yep, I agree with much of what you say.
Except for this.
This isn't objective, obviously. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all find different aesthetic aspects of our cars pleasing. But from this subjective point of view I've never liked the looks of any incarnation or sports designation of the TT, from the standard Mk1 to the latest incumbent RS.
"One is a sporty coupé, the other is a sports car."
And so yep, I agree with much of what you say.
Except for this.
HighwayStar said:
TTS... Lovely to look at
To my eyes the TT is an ugly little thing. A weird bubble shape; bulbous at the front and bulbous at the rear; unresolved, and much too high for its short length.This isn't objective, obviously. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all find different aesthetic aspects of our cars pleasing. But from this subjective point of view I've never liked the looks of any incarnation or sports designation of the TT, from the standard Mk1 to the latest incumbent RS.
Edited by Tim bo on Wednesday 12th October 09:45
Tim bo said:
To my eyes the TT is an ugly little thing. A weird bubble shape; bulbous at the front and bulbous at the rear; unresolved, and much too high for its short length.
This isn't objective, obviously. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all find different aesthetic aspects of our cars pleasing. But from this subjective point of view I've never liked the looks of any incarnation or sports designation of the TT, from the standard Mk1 to the latest incumbent RS.
I tend to notice MkI TTs more than the later ones. There was something about the styling, in a Sierra way, which made it stand out when introduced and that's maybe stuck in my head. But as you say, the MkII (and I bought one!) is an odd looking thing. When I went to test drive a MkIII TT at Audi Leicester I walked in looking for the showroom model to have a nose, later realising I'd walked past four others clumped around the entrance without noticing they weren't MkIIs. So little difference, no doubt to stop sales falling - which didn't work.This isn't objective, obviously. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we all find different aesthetic aspects of our cars pleasing. But from this subjective point of view I've never liked the looks of any incarnation or sports designation of the TT, from the standard Mk1 to the latest incumbent RS.
Edited by Tim bo on Wednesday 12th October 09:45
Actually, I think a "clump" of TTs is THE word for describing a group of them nicely.
DJMC said:
I tend to notice MkI TTs more than the later ones. There was something about the styling, in a Sierra way, which made it stand out when introduced and that's maybe stuck in my head. But as you say, the MkII (and I bought one!) is an odd looking thing. When I went to test drive a MkIII TT at Audi Leicester I walked in looking for the showroom model to have a nose, later realising I'd walked past four others clumped around the entrance without noticing they weren't MkIIs. So little difference, no doubt to stop sales falling - which didn't work.
Actually, I think a "clump" of TTs is THE word for describing a group of them nicely.
Of course looks are subjective... Mine was Solar Orange. Paying for petrol one day, a guy said you see loads of TT's but mine looked different. Anyway, be it a Ferrari, an M4, Cayman, R8, an entire brand(Audi) whatever... looks are polarising and none are universally liked.Actually, I think a "clump" of TTs is THE word for describing a group of them nicely.
I agree re the MK3, visually a missed opportunity... the front, like a cliff face, wide and heavy. I drove the new TTS, performance was cranked up a few notches but driving the thing.... flatline. Renault can make FWD work, really work, involving, handle and fun Audi should be able to rise to the challenge FWD biased Quattro. If they had, maybe I'd be waiting for the new RS instead.
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