Child's booster seat in bucket seats?

[beanoir]

Cheib said:

ellroy said:

As far as I know that's the only way to get a switch to turn off the airbag, which is a definite big no no for kiddies.

This!

Buckets or Normal Seats...Booster with a Back or Not. All kind of irrelevant if you put them in a front seat without the airbag turned off.

I am pretty amazed at how few cars have the "Isofix" box ticked as without this in Cayster/911 you can't turn the airbag off and I reckon most cars at some stage have kids in the front passenger seat.

OPCs can deactivate the passenger airbag if you request it. It comes with a 'small' cost mind!

[chriscoates81]

Cheib said:

This!

Buckets or Normal Seats...Booster with a Back or Not. All kind of irrelevant if you put them in a front seat without the airbag turned off.

I am pretty amazed at how few cars have the "Isofix" box ticked as without this in Cayster/911 you can't turn the airbag off and I reckon most cars at some stage have kids in the front passenger seat.

I think the only issue with airbags is with rear facing car seats, i.e. front facing ones should be ok.

[dreamcar]

beanoir said:

dreamcar said:

What a stupid and sarcastic comment to make. Under EU rules all car seats are tested for safety and compatibility for child seats / restraints. Sport bucket seats are a no compromise design which are not designed to child seats and do not therefore meet the required safety standards to use them. If you are irresponsible enough to ignore that warning and put your child at potential risk of harm then you are a total idiot.

Is that the correct reason you can't put a booster seat in a Porsche bucket seat, what's your source? I've never heard that before, and it's not what Porsche say either.

Consider this, I'm allowed to drive a child around in a 1980's Ford Fiesta with the seat mounted in the front, the car is made of tin and the seats are hardly what I'd call secure, lets not even consider what the seat belts aren't doing. But because there is no law or advice from the manufacturer to say I can't or shouldn't it means I'm not crossing the boundary of child neglect? I can tell you for one thing, any child is safe in a booster seat in the bucket seat of a modern Porsche than that.

I'd suggest you stop dishing out advice to people do with their own children as its not really your concern.

Edited by beanoir on Monday 23 January 12:43

By your attitude displayed here you probably are stupid enough to ignore manufacturer's warnings, think you know best and put an innocent child's life at risk.

[beanoir]

dreamcar said:

By your attitude displayed here you probably are stupid enough to ignore manufacturer's warnings, think you know best and put an innocent child's life at risk.

As I said, if you have some form of evidence for your rant at us all, then we're happy to hear it. Otherwise there is no substance to your outburst and you're the one who really is left looking a bit silly don't you think?

[Jamie Summers]

chriscoates81 said:

I think the only issue with airbags is with rear facing car seats, i.e. front facing ones should be ok.

Yes, I think this is the point. Otherwise you couldn't put a booster on the front seat of any modern car without deactivating the airbag, which I'm sure isn't the case.

[Robograd]

I have skin in this argument. When I bought my Cayman I sort the advice of the ONLY people who could give a definitive answer to the question of children & bucket seats - Porsche GB. They categorically state you cannot use a child restraint system/booster seat in any Porsche with sports bucket seats. It's written in bold print in the Owner's Handbooks of Cayman, Boxster & all 911 that have buckets, as an option.

Dreamcar is correct, don't shoot the messenger. Get on the phone and ask those who sell the cars, instead of coming over all hurt. Dreamcar is acting responsibly in trying to stop you all from perhaps having an accident, the consequences of which would remain with you for the rest of your lives. From a legal point of view, I'm sure that if a child was injured/killed when sitting in a bucket seat, the driver would be open to prosecution for negligence, at the very least.

[beanoir]

Robograd said:

I have skin in this argument. When I bought my Cayman I sort the advice of the ONLY people who could give a definitive answer to the question of children & bucket seats - Porsche GB. They categorically state you cannot use a child restraint system/booster seat in any Porsche with sports bucket seats. It's written in bold print in the Owner's Handbooks of Cayman, Boxster & all 911 that have buckets, as an option.

Dreamcar is correct, don't shoot the messenger. Get on the phone and ask those who sell the cars, instead of coming over all hurt. Dreamcar is acting responsibly in trying to stop you all from perhaps having an accident, the consequences of which would remain with you for the rest of your lives. From a legal point of view, I'm sure that if a child was injured/killed when sitting in a bucket seat, the driver would be open to prosecution for negligence, at the very least.

Are we being trolled by Mumsnet again?

[Jamie Summers]

Robograd said:

I have skin in this argument. When I bought my Cayman I sort the advice of the ONLY people who could give a definitive answer to the question of children & bucket seats - Porsche GB. They categorically state you cannot use a child restraint system/booster seat in any Porsche with sports bucket seats. It's written in bold print in the Owner's Handbooks of Cayman, Boxster & all 911 that have buckets, as an option.

Dreamcar is correct, don't shoot the messenger. Get on the phone and ask those who sell the cars, instead of coming over all hurt. Dreamcar is acting responsibly in trying to stop you all from perhaps having an accident, the consequences of which would remain with you for the rest of your lives. From a legal point of view, I'm sure that if a child was injured/killed when sitting in a bucket seat, the driver would be open to prosecution for negligence, at the very least.

I don't doubt that is what Porsche say, I'd just love to know what it is about a bucket seat that makes it unsafe for children ?? I really can't see why, assuming the seat belt is at the proper height and angles across the child, a bucket seat is any less safe than a conventional one. There just doesn't appear to be any logic.
My non-scientific prediction would be completely the opposite........ I am quite prepared to have my view changed on this if someone can explain the reasoning.
If you think about it, a hard backed child seat is, in fact, very similar to a fixed bucket seat. The only reason I can think there is a problem with a bucket seat must come down to the routing of the seat belt. However if a booster seat puts the child in the correct position for the seat belt (not even getting into the rights or wrongs of race harnesses here), then why should it be any different than for an adult ?

[Magic919]

Robograd said:

I sort the advice

But not the wheat or the chaff.

[stuno1]

Also, try the 'bubble bum'.

[Robograd]

Beanoir - words fail me, for once. Better Mumset, than a injured/dead child, me thinks.

For those struggling for a reason for the warnings about sports bucket seats & children, there is a very straight forward answer, ring your OPC or Porsche GB. My memory of Porsche's reply for the Cayman was that not only should child restraint systems not be used with SBS, a child under twelve should not be place in a Cayman's passenger seat, regardless of seat option,without the appropriate Isofix option & airbag disconnection switch. In the 991, it is possible to get the front seat a safe distance back to take away the danger of injury from a lethally activated airbag. Please refer to Porsche GB regarding the inadvisability of seating a <12year old in SBS. Thinking on, the SBS are unavailable in the USA, perhaps for the above reason - although I could be totally wrong about this.

To put it another way: if Porsche didn't give the warning ( which appears more than once in the handbook) & your child was badly injured in a crash & you found that there was negligence from the omission of a warning, I'm sure you'd be reaching for the phone number of your pet ambulance chaser! Hmm!

Why get hot under the collar & ask a bloody forum for a definitive answer to a critical question: go to the main source? It's only a phone call, or do you fear the answer?


On second thoughts, Beanoir, Mumset rules, I'm cool wid that.

[Robograd]

Magic 'whatever',

Thanks for that: as they say "everyday is a school day".

Now that's sorted, it's time you sought advice on child safety in Porsche's. See, you are a good teacher, Sir!

[beanoir]

Robograd said:

Beanoir - words fail me, for once. Better Mumset, than a injured/dead child, me thinks.

For those struggling for a reason for the warnings about sports bucket seats & children, there is a very straight forward answer, ring your OPC or Porsche GB. My memory of Porsche's reply for the Cayman was that not only should child restraint systems not be used with SBS, a child under twelve should not be place in a Cayman's passenger seat, regardless of seat option,without the appropriate Isofix option & airbag disconnection switch. In the 991, it is possible to get the front seat a safe distance back to take away the danger of injury from a lethally activated airbag. Please refer to Porsche GB regarding the inadvisability of seating a <12year old in SBS. Thinking on, the SBS are unavailable in the USA, perhaps for the above reason - although I could be totally wrong about this.

To put it another way: if Porsche didn't give the warning ( which appears more than once in the handbook) & your child was badly injured in a crash & you found that there was negligence from the omission of a warning, I'm sure you'd be reaching for the phone number of your pet ambulance chaser! Hmm!

Why get hot under the collar & ask a bloody forum for a definitive answer to a critical question: go to the main source? It's only a phone call, or do you fear the answer?


On second thoughts, Beanoir, Mumset rules, I'm cool wid that.

At last, we're getting somewhere close to the nub of it.

1. if its the Airbags, then they can be deactivated by the OPC these days. So isn't a barrier per se for fitting a booster seat.
2. A child restraint system refers to a child seat with harnesses and tethering requirements. Porsche advise not fitting these kind of systems for the simple reason that they generally don't fit! A booster cushion on the other hand, often has no tethering system and is designed to raise a a child of a suitable height up to a point where the cars own restraint system (the seat belt) can be used to safely secure the child.

I know what Porsche state in their instructions, but lets not forget they advise a lot of things for seemingly pointless reasons and are not the last word ins child safety or indeed many things. There is no doubt Porsche don't want people killing their children, but i'm quite sure it's not driven by guilt but more likely expensive and reputation damaging court cases.

Ignoring Porsches own advice is no reason to worry if you follow common sense, ignoring the law probably is a mistake and would mean problems if came a cropper.

Edited by beanoir on Monday 23 January 20:29

[Sparkyhd]

Never thought this topic would generate more vitriol than the 718 engines.

[ellroy]

beanoir said:

OPCs can deactivate the passenger airbag if you request it. It comes with a 'small' cost mind!

'Small' there's a word! Close to £500 as I recall to install the switch into the loom, but it can be done locally as you say.

[beanoir]

ellroy said:

beanoir said:

OPCs can deactivate the passenger airbag if you request it. It comes with a 'small' cost mind!

'Small' there's a word! Close to £500 as I recall to install the switch into the loom, but it can be done locally as you say.

Can't put a price on the DS or the DD. It's convincing my DE that the cost is more important than a handbag, the thought would probably reduce her to D&V or worse still I'll be a victim of EA and DV.

Just to be clear I am not NAK tonight

[ellroy]

Sorry pal, in English?

[chriscoates81]

Robograd said:

Beanoir - words fail me, for once. Better Mumset, than a injured/dead child, me thinks.

For those struggling for a reason for the warnings about sports bucket seats & children, there is a very straight forward answer, ring your OPC or Porsche GB. My memory of Porsche's reply for the Cayman was that not only should child restraint systems not be used with SBS, a child under twelve should not be place in a Cayman's passenger seat, regardless of seat option,without the appropriate Isofix option & airbag disconnection switch. In the 991, it is possible to get the front seat a safe distance back to take away the danger of injury from a lethally activated airbag. Please refer to Porsche GB regarding the inadvisability of seating a <12year old in SBS. Thinking on, the SBS are unavailable in the USA, perhaps for the above reason - although I could be totally wrong about this.

To put it another way: if Porsche didn't give the warning ( which appears more than once in the handbook) & your child was badly injured in a crash & you found that there was negligence from the omission of a warning, I'm sure you'd be reaching for the phone number of your pet ambulance chaser! Hmm!

Why get hot under the collar & ask a bloody forum for a definitive answer to a critical question: go to the main source? It's only a phone call, or do you fear the answer?


On second thoughts, Beanoir, Mumset rules, I'm cool wid that.

The problem there is that I picked up a boxster as a courtesy car from Leeds opc with my then 2.5 year old daughter. They had no issues with her being in the front and didn't advise me any differently. As a side note she's normally in the back of a 996 so she loved being in the front and the option for the roof to be down. No airbags were deactivated or even suggested by the opc.

[dreamcar]

Robograd said:

I have skin in this argument. When I bought my Cayman I sort the advice of the ONLY people who could give a definitive answer to the question of children & bucket seats - Porsche GB. They categorically state you cannot use a child restraint system/booster seat in any Porsche with sports bucket seats. It's written in bold print in the Owner's Handbooks of Cayman, Boxster & all 911 that have buckets, as an option.

Dreamcar is correct, don't shoot the messenger. Get on the phone and ask those who sell the cars, instead of coming over all hurt. Dreamcar is acting responsibly in trying to stop you all from perhaps having an accident, the consequences of which would remain with you for the rest of your lives. From a legal point of view, I'm sure that if a child was injured/killed when sitting in a bucket seat, the driver would be open to prosecution for negligence, at the very least.

Thank you Robograd. Sadly hospitals and undertakers are kept busy with arrogant and stupid people who think they know best and believe "it will never happen to them". They can choose to be foolish and irresponsible, sadly young children cannot. Perhaps these idiots don't even care.

Edited by dreamcar on Tuesday 24th January 07:15

[turboteeth]

Might it be something to do with the seatbelt position preventing it being unplugged properly in the event of an accident rather than the seat mounting being incompatible?

I use a child booster in my Cayman - it does not have full buckets but not entirely dissimilar to the first picture although I think the seatbelt comes the other side of the side bolster. My car has the usual warning sticker regarding rear facing seats and the need to deactivate the airbag but I have not read anything to suggest you should not use a booster. In many ways I am much happier with the way the seat fits snugly in position to say my wife's Quashqai where they move around just by the way the seatbelt looping is designed.

Previously I had an Audi TT Quattro Sport with the Recaro buckets and a few years ago regularly used a rear facing child seat in this arrangement as the airbag could be switched off with a key in the glovebox. I am now wandering whether this may not have been so sensible - but the car was involved in a relatively hard accident and the seat stayed completely in position.