Is a 997.1 C2S a timebomb as per forums/guides/reviews?
Discussion
Hello,
Complete Porsche virgin here, so please be gentle.
A friend of mine has recently got and then sadly had to sell a 996, and I was very impressed, not to mention a little jealous. Since then I have found I may be inheriting a little cash, and started to browse the classifieds (as you do). I ended up with the exciting and yet potentially crazy idea that with some man-maths I might be able to afford my dream car, a 997 C2S. The problem is, the more research I do, and the more background reading I've done the more I'm worried about two things. Bore scoring and IMS bearing failure. Lots of buyers guides say "Less than 5% of cars are effected" but then you get angry owners ranting about no goodwill from Porsche themselves, that the car should have been recalled and Porsche should be ashamed blah blah. "I've personally seen 5 cars with this issue" is one particularly worrying comment.
Sadly, with said man-maths I can't afford a 997.2 (which does appeal, more power and more reliability, yes please!) And I'm guessing the prices of early 997.1's are soft for that very reason. If I went ahead with this idea would I be crazy? Would I be sitting on a ticking timebomb? It seems that unlike a lot of common automotive and motorcycle mechanical issues there is no warning before it happens...
I'd also consider the slightly cheaper Carrera 2 as some places seem to say it's less prone to the IMS bearing issue, but I can't seem to get a definitive answer on that.
I'm sure you've had this question many times before but any comments would be appreciated!
Complete Porsche virgin here, so please be gentle.
A friend of mine has recently got and then sadly had to sell a 996, and I was very impressed, not to mention a little jealous. Since then I have found I may be inheriting a little cash, and started to browse the classifieds (as you do). I ended up with the exciting and yet potentially crazy idea that with some man-maths I might be able to afford my dream car, a 997 C2S. The problem is, the more research I do, and the more background reading I've done the more I'm worried about two things. Bore scoring and IMS bearing failure. Lots of buyers guides say "Less than 5% of cars are effected" but then you get angry owners ranting about no goodwill from Porsche themselves, that the car should have been recalled and Porsche should be ashamed blah blah. "I've personally seen 5 cars with this issue" is one particularly worrying comment.
Sadly, with said man-maths I can't afford a 997.2 (which does appeal, more power and more reliability, yes please!) And I'm guessing the prices of early 997.1's are soft for that very reason. If I went ahead with this idea would I be crazy? Would I be sitting on a ticking timebomb? It seems that unlike a lot of common automotive and motorcycle mechanical issues there is no warning before it happens...
I'd also consider the slightly cheaper Carrera 2 as some places seem to say it's less prone to the IMS bearing issue, but I can't seem to get a definitive answer on that.
I'm sure you've had this question many times before but any comments would be appreciated!
I bought an 07 997.1 with just 27k miles last year. Every time I looked at it on the drive I wondered if it was going to trash it's engine even though I could afford to fix it. After a couple of months thinking like this I sold it at a loss, life's too short to worry about issues like this, it just totally spoilt the enjoyment for me. I've had several 911's over the years but this one just didn't do it for me but I'll happily buy another that doesn't have this stigma attached.
If you're not totally chilled about potential problems with this engine you may just regret it like me.
If you're not totally chilled about potential problems with this engine you may just regret it like me.
Crazy4557 said:
I bought an 07 997.1 with just 27k miles last year. Every time I looked at it on the drive I wondered if it was going to trash it's engine even though I could afford to fix it. After a couple of months thinking like this I sold it at a loss, life's too short to worry about issues like this, it just totally spoilt the enjoyment for me. I've had several 911's over the years but this one just didn't do it for me but I'll happily buy another that doesn't have this stigma attached.
If you're not totally chilled about potential problems with this engine you may just regret it like me.
I suppose the answer would be to buy a car that has pre-exploded for a big discount, then get the engine rebuilt for peace of mind... I don't see many for sale like that though!If you're not totally chilled about potential problems with this engine you may just regret it like me.
MarJay said:
I have considered a Cayman, but it just doesn't quite do it for me. I think maybe your option 1 might work. The bore scoring is less scary for me than the IMS as at least you can check to see if the damage already exists.
There's no guarantee that just because it's fine on inspection that it won't score later. In my ownership of this engine (and the 3.8 is the worst) it always bothered me and reduced my enjoyment of the car. The industry around rebuilding, in fact re-engineering these engines is suspiciously developed and busyI don't think the gen 1 really makes sense unless you buy cheap, plan to move on soon and get it properly inspected. If you plan to keep it a few years it could develop the fault and then the cost of fixing properly is what you would have paid for the gen 2 anyway. As I prefer the look inside and out of the gen 2 and don't like risk, a gen 1 isn't for me again.
Have you tried the Cayman before dismissing it? Much as the 997 has some distinguishing features in the appearance and drive, the 987 cars give you a unique intimacy with the engine right behind you and are a great drive (have owned both for 4 years each). at £25k-£30k I'd be looking at one of them or add a smidge and stretch to the 997.2
Edited by jakesmith on Saturday 18th February 18:57
I raced a Gen1 Cayman which was big problem --- how do you race a car that's about to eat it's internals ?
They are great cars with a flawed engine -- just price in the repair and you cannot lose -- even better, go for a warranty and then the numbers can't work against you.
Or, talk to Hartech ?
I (personally) would rather trust one of their rebuilt engines over a Porsche replacement ...
They are great cars with a flawed engine -- just price in the repair and you cannot lose -- even better, go for a warranty and then the numbers can't work against you.
Or, talk to Hartech ?
I (personally) would rather trust one of their rebuilt engines over a Porsche replacement ...
I was after an early 997 c2s. After a few months of viewing tired but shiny cars and reading that they could possibly have the most problematic engine I tried an early 996.
Unexpectedly I really liked it. Not long after I found one with a spec and history I was extremely happy with. Everything about it has been growing on me ever since. I had it out this afternoon for its first proper drive of the year and in all honesty I don't think I would have had any more fun or satisfaction behind the wheel of something 5,10 or 15 times more valuable.
Bullet proof it is not, but the engine feels responsive, eager and strong. If the worst happens I can get it fixed. It is a state of affairs I am far more comfortable with than I would be if I indulged my occasional hankering for something like a 540C and the unavoidable depreciation entailed.
Unexpectedly I really liked it. Not long after I found one with a spec and history I was extremely happy with. Everything about it has been growing on me ever since. I had it out this afternoon for its first proper drive of the year and in all honesty I don't think I would have had any more fun or satisfaction behind the wheel of something 5,10 or 15 times more valuable.
Bullet proof it is not, but the engine feels responsive, eager and strong. If the worst happens I can get it fixed. It is a state of affairs I am far more comfortable with than I would be if I indulged my occasional hankering for something like a 540C and the unavoidable depreciation entailed.
Well I don't disagree with any of the negative comments but I have an early 997.1 with 76k miles now and it is simply fantastic.
It is a straight forward C2s but I can say after a few air cooled and driving a 996, 997.2 porsche it just feels the right balance between old and new. Use it for commuting, weekend, whatever it's Great!
It is a straight forward C2s but I can say after a few air cooled and driving a 996, 997.2 porsche it just feels the right balance between old and new. Use it for commuting, weekend, whatever it's Great!
I normally buy the cars i really want when they are around 10 years old , it is only then that i can just about afford them , however by that time all of the horror stories are out and i have so many reasons why not to .
That said when it comes to cars and bikes my heart really does rule my head .
In the last 16 years i have bought and run the following ( admitidly i do not do great mileage, maybe 4k per year ), do a bit of research and you will find many many reasons not to buy any of them .
Lotus Elan Turbo
3.2 1988 carrera celebration
993 Tip S Coupe
E46 M3
Z3 M Coupe
Boxster 987
Not one had any issue what so ever .
I know i should have kept them all as some have appreciated quite considerably but i had to sell to move on to the next experiance and that for me is what its all about .
In actual fact owning all of the above cars probably cost me nothing more than normal running costs of any run of the mill car and with often little differnce between buy and sell price which makes all the difference .
Maybe i have been lucky !
Now own 997.1 C2S , because it really was the only car i wanted next and i had to have one .
Had Bore Scope carried out and sure enough did show slight signs but was advised that marks were probably not out of place with many engines of any manufacture at 70K ,, how often do you hear of people haveing their Audi or Range Rover etc checked in such a way .
After almost 1 year ownership the car has been an absolute joy to own and drive , never smokes , no black sooting on left exhaust and only half litre oil top up since last service around 5K ago , may not have even needed it ,, but you can get a bit paraniod i agree.
When i am older and greyer and rocking in my favourite chair i will hopefully still have fond memories of all the cars i have taken the risk on .
I probably wont remember the hours i spent reading about their potental faults .
Buy and enjoy
That said when it comes to cars and bikes my heart really does rule my head .
In the last 16 years i have bought and run the following ( admitidly i do not do great mileage, maybe 4k per year ), do a bit of research and you will find many many reasons not to buy any of them .
Lotus Elan Turbo
3.2 1988 carrera celebration
993 Tip S Coupe
E46 M3
Z3 M Coupe
Boxster 987
Not one had any issue what so ever .
I know i should have kept them all as some have appreciated quite considerably but i had to sell to move on to the next experiance and that for me is what its all about .
In actual fact owning all of the above cars probably cost me nothing more than normal running costs of any run of the mill car and with often little differnce between buy and sell price which makes all the difference .
Maybe i have been lucky !
Now own 997.1 C2S , because it really was the only car i wanted next and i had to have one .
Had Bore Scope carried out and sure enough did show slight signs but was advised that marks were probably not out of place with many engines of any manufacture at 70K ,, how often do you hear of people haveing their Audi or Range Rover etc checked in such a way .
After almost 1 year ownership the car has been an absolute joy to own and drive , never smokes , no black sooting on left exhaust and only half litre oil top up since last service around 5K ago , may not have even needed it ,, but you can get a bit paraniod i agree.
When i am older and greyer and rocking in my favourite chair i will hopefully still have fond memories of all the cars i have taken the risk on .
I probably wont remember the hours i spent reading about their potental faults .
Buy and enjoy
steve1968 said:
In the last 16 years i have bought and run the following ( admitidly i do not do great mileage, maybe 4k per year ), do a bit of research and you will find many many reasons not to buy any of them .
Lotus Elan Turbo
3.2 1988 carrera celebration
993 Tip S Coupe
E46 M3
Z3 M Coupe
Boxster 987
Not one had any issue what so ever .
Of your list only the Boxster 987 would be a worry due to potential engine issues (and even then I'd do it). The rest are all fine as long as they're well inspected.Lotus Elan Turbo
3.2 1988 carrera celebration
993 Tip S Coupe
E46 M3
Z3 M Coupe
Boxster 987
Not one had any issue what so ever .
997.1 does have more of an issue due to the engine, although you either buy it with and have enough cash in reserve if you need to rebuild (if you have to have a 997.1), but a 997.2 or opt for a 996 with cash if needed if you have engine woes. If it has to be a watercooled n/a 911.
This is my prediction and although I am bais as I have a 997.1 my son has made me promise he gets it in my will so I'm not selling anyway.....
In 10 years the 996 will be seen in a better light but people will still question the lights, i think the early yellow indicators will be sort after and the c4s ( still no idea why people prefer heavier, lower cars, but they look good) the 997.2 will be seen as good but a bit too modern, led's and all so very precise direct fuel injection. As for turbos, well I think people will just be fed up of turbo everything.......
The 997.1 will make the perfect classic, most will have had engine work, the rest will be seen as safe bets and for a classic weekend car they will all be seen as a bit more special, a bit more easy to modify, very much like the 964, the dog for so many years, I turned one down years ago at £10k as I thought the engines were a bit iffy....
So there you have it long term bet, 997.1 every time, short term well you could get stung......
In 10 years the 996 will be seen in a better light but people will still question the lights, i think the early yellow indicators will be sort after and the c4s ( still no idea why people prefer heavier, lower cars, but they look good) the 997.2 will be seen as good but a bit too modern, led's and all so very precise direct fuel injection. As for turbos, well I think people will just be fed up of turbo everything.......
The 997.1 will make the perfect classic, most will have had engine work, the rest will be seen as safe bets and for a classic weekend car they will all be seen as a bit more special, a bit more easy to modify, very much like the 964, the dog for so many years, I turned one down years ago at £10k as I thought the engines were a bit iffy....
So there you have it long term bet, 997.1 every time, short term well you could get stung......
I've just gone for it with a gen 1. Pick it up in two weeks. I've bought through OPC so the car has been thoroughly checked to qualify for the 2 year warranty. I've been looking at the market for 12 months and missed a couple Hartech rebuilt cars and then decided I'd go gen 2 Cayman but this came up with a nice spec and thenreassurances of the Porsche warranty. I'll either change up to a gen 2 or get the engine rebuilt if required in 2 years time. They do come up through OPC network if you keep your eye out.
https://video.citnow.com/vxzLMrtfg-K
https://video.citnow.com/vxZsSRR_mkJ
https://video.citnow.com/vxzLMrtfg-K
https://video.citnow.com/vxZsSRR_mkJ
Bought my 997.1 C2S last summer and absolutely love it. Previously owned a 964 and 996 and the 997 fells just about perfect
Agreed a deal with the seller that was subject to a Porsche engine inspection (£447 at porsche) and all came back fine. Mines an 08 which seem a little less prone to the weaknesses.
Always let the oil get up to temperature before pressing on and don't over rev the engine .
Don't know what all the fuss is about really
Agreed a deal with the seller that was subject to a Porsche engine inspection (£447 at porsche) and all came back fine. Mines an 08 which seem a little less prone to the weaknesses.
Always let the oil get up to temperature before pressing on and don't over rev the engine .
Don't know what all the fuss is about really
Thanks she's not bad
I'm just saying that for a relatively small cost,peace of mind is achievable obviously not 100 % because there are no guarantees with mechanical issues.
I have considered a porsche warranty (under £200 for inspection) then £1100 for 1 year or £1900 for 2
Pretty reasonable in the grand scheme of things
Also increasing resale value
I'm just saying that for a relatively small cost,peace of mind is achievable obviously not 100 % because there are no guarantees with mechanical issues.
I have considered a porsche warranty (under £200 for inspection) then £1100 for 1 year or £1900 for 2
Pretty reasonable in the grand scheme of things
Also increasing resale value
Thanks she's not bad
I'm just saying that for a relatively small cost,peace of mind is achievable obviously not 100 % because there are no guarantees with mechanical issues.
I have considered a porsche warranty (under £200 for inspection) then £1100 for 1 year or £1900 for 2
Pretty reasonable in the grand scheme of things
Also increasing resale value
I'm just saying that for a relatively small cost,peace of mind is achievable obviously not 100 % because there are no guarantees with mechanical issues.
I have considered a porsche warranty (under £200 for inspection) then £1100 for 1 year or £1900 for 2
Pretty reasonable in the grand scheme of things
Also increasing resale value
jbaddeley said:
I've just gone for it with a gen 1. Pick it up in two weeks. I've bought through OPC so the car has been thoroughly checked to qualify for the 2 year warranty. I've been looking at the market for 12 months and missed a couple Hartech rebuilt cars and then decided I'd go gen 2 Cayman but this came up with a nice spec and thenreassurances of the Porsche warranty. I'll either change up to a gen 2 or get the engine rebuilt if required in 2 years time. They do come up through OPC network if you keep your eye out.
https://video.citnow.com/vxzLMrtfg-K
https://video.citnow.com/vxZsSRR_mkJ
That's absolutely stunning.https://video.citnow.com/vxzLMrtfg-K
https://video.citnow.com/vxZsSRR_mkJ
Congratulations.
Do you mind if I ask what it was being advertised for ?
Paul
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