Buying a 981, red flags?

[paulguitar]

trumpton7291 said:

paulguitar said:

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

Having driven into standing water on the M4 and narrowly saving an aquaplane spin I would def suggest replacing tires early on these. 4.5mm is a bit bold however.

There was a thread about that by someone else who'd done the same in one of these. Slightly concerning.

3.5mm a sensible time to change, do you think?

[Dan-GT3]

DJMC said:

As an owner myself, that's a £25k, absolute maximum, car.

I’m currently looking for a Cayman, that’s more like £28/29k car. At £25 it’ll be too cheap!

[ATM]

paulguitar said:

trumpton7291 said:

paulguitar said:

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

Having driven into standing water on the M4 and narrowly saving an aquaplane spin I would def suggest replacing tires early on these. 4.5mm is a bit bold however.

There was a thread about that by someone else who'd done the same in one of these. Slightly concerning.

3.5mm a sensible time to change, do you think?

Is that me?

I will keep saying it. Mid engined sports cars are the most susceptible to aquaplane. There are 4 ways to lower your chances

Speed
Tread depth
Tyre width
Type of tyre

I'm now running 215 fronts and 245 rears on mine.

I've read about more people getting into bother in these cars but not many start a thread about it so these incidents pass by quietly.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

Is that me?

I will keep saying it. Mid engined sports cars are the most susceptible to aquaplane. There are 4 ways to lower your chances

Speed
Tread depth
Tyre width
Type of tyre

I'm now running 215 fronts and 245 rears on mine.

I've read about more people getting into bother in these cars but not many start a thread about it so these incidents pass by quietly.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

Yes, that's you.

Are there any particular tyres you suggest? And now much narrower are the ones you're running now than standard?

[LiamH66]

ATM said:

I've read about more people getting into bother in these cars but not many start a thread about it so these incidents pass by quietly.

Yours is probably the most enjoyable thread since I joined PH, which was a few years ago now. I've thought of you every time I've approached standing (or flowing) water at speed ever since. I tend to compute depth of water, tread depth on tyres, suitability of tyres, likely eventual yaw angle, and general bravery on an almost daily basis this time of year.

@ATM, your reward is probably in heaven, but you have unknowingly saved me from myself on many occasions.

Liam

[ATM]

paulguitar said:

Are there any particular tyres you suggest? And now much narrower are the ones you're running now than standard?

All you can do is look at their wet weather rating. I didn't fit winter tyres to this car this year so didn't really drive it for around 3 months. The jury is still out on winter tyres being better than summers in standing water. I had fell for that when I went off. I had a set of winters off the car at the time. Some people truly believe a good summer tyre [based on some tests] is adequate regards aquaplane prevention. I'm less inclined to believe it. Although even in the middle of winter I am not concerned about aquaplaning if I am not going anywhere near a motorway.

I did pass by the same stretch where I aquaplaned just last week. Just before the services junction on the M61 near Chorley - South bound. If you zoom in on my pic above you will see the I sign ahead of me and then the services. I looked over at the III, II and I signs as I past by. II was missing altogether and I was bent. Its been over 5 years since I clipped one so I'd bet some more people have clipped them since. They told me in the services it was a common spot for cars going off in the rain.

The standard car comes with 235 / 265.

235 45 18 / 265 45 18
235 40 19 / 265 40 19
235 35 20 / 265 35 20

I was actually running a 285 35 19 when mine went off.

215 is the thinnest tyre available in 45 18. So I just added 30 to get a 245 45 18 for the rear. These go on the standard 18 wheels just fine - 8 inch front 9 inch rear - although I do have a few wheel rim nicks from curbs because the curb protectors cant quite cope with a little bit of a stretch.

When you put a 205 tyre next to a 235 tyre the difference looks massive. Comparing fronts here - 17 996 and 19 981 - pics below. It doesn't sound like a lot but I like to think of it like the extra width is all in the centre. If you look at the tyres below you will see the edges have lots of sideways slits. But the centres do not. That is common with most high performance summers. So if you take off say 100mm for the sides you are left with the rest as all centre. Now a reduction of 20mm in width becomes a difference between 100mm or 120mm from that centre section.

Some people believe aquaplaning starts with your fronts because these need to cut through the water and allow the rears to then follow easier. All I know is it felt like my car floated on all 4 corners. Steering wheel went light and everything went quiet - so no tyre roar for a brief moment. And if you think about it these mid engine cars have less weigh over the nose.

My 996 came with 225 40 fronts on 18 inch wheels. But I switched to the 17 setup which has a 205 50 front. Your mind thinks it will feel awful and the car will have no grip. But then you drive it and realise that is just ridiculous. You would find it difficult [on a road] to tell me the car doesn't have enough grip.

In fact I even went for run out in the hills with some other Boxster owners just after I fitted my new skinnier setup to the 981 - before the body was repaired and painted. I had a spell in number 2 spot. We stopped to allow everyone else to catch up. The leading man who knew the roads well said he had tried very hard to lose me but just couldn't. I dont consider myself a quick driver so I'm very happy with that. Although if I'm honest I dont think it was all down to Me. I actually think the softer passive damper and softer higher profile tyres setup was quicker on the day because these roads were quite bumpy. And I honestly believe that an average driver is quicker with softer suspension and higher profile squidgy tyres, but thats another conversation for another day and I have gone on for long enough already.

[Hol]

trumpton7291 said:

paulguitar said:

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

Having driven into standing water on the M4 and narrowly saving an aquaplane spin I would def suggest replacing tires early on these. 4.5mm is a bit bold however.

Was it an tyre age related suggestion, rather than a depth one.

[Burrow01]

Ref the Winters vs Summer tyre aquaplaning resistance, the first time I tried winter tyres was driving down to Austria for skiing.

On the way down, we had a spin on the Autobahn (overtaking a snowplough..) and I realised that everyone else was on winters (this was in the late '90s)

In the ski resort we bought a set of winters for the drive back (this was in my wifes Volvo estate company car)

Autobahn was soaking on the way back, but the increase in grip and positive feel was pretty amazing, and I was a convert to winter types from that point onwards.

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

Are there any particular tyres you suggest? And now much narrower are the ones you're running now than standard?

All you can do is look at their wet weather rating. I didn't fit winter tyres to this car this year so didn't really drive it for around 3 months. The jury is still out on winter tyres being better than summers in standing water. I had fell for that when I went off. I had a set of winters off the car at the time. Some people truly believe a good summer tyre [based on some tests] is adequate regards aquaplane prevention. I'm less inclined to believe it. Although even in the middle of winter I am not concerned about aquaplaning if I am not going anywhere near a motorway.

I did pass by the same stretch where I aquaplaned just last week. Just before the services junction on the M61 near Chorley - South bound. If you zoom in on my pic above you will see the I sign ahead of me and then the services. I looked over at the III, II and I signs as I past by. II was missing altogether and I was bent. Its been over 5 years since I clipped one so I'd bet some more people have clipped them since. They told me in the services it was a common spot for cars going off in the rain.

The standard car comes with 235 / 265.

235 45 18 / 265 45 18
235 40 19 / 265 40 19
235 35 20 / 265 35 20

I was actually running a 285 35 19 when mine went off.

215 is the thinnest tyre available in 45 18. So I just added 30 to get a 245 45 18 for the rear. These go on the standard 18 wheels just fine - 8 inch front 9 inch rear - although I do have a few wheel rim nicks from curbs because the curb protectors cant quite cope with a little bit of a stretch.

When you put a 205 tyre next to a 235 tyre the difference looks massive. Comparing fronts here - 17 996 and 19 981 - pics below. It doesn't sound like a lot but I like to think of it like the extra width is all in the centre. If you look at the tyres below you will see the edges have lots of sideways slits. But the centres do not. That is common with most high performance summers. So if you take off say 100mm for the sides you are left with the rest as all centre. Now a reduction of 20mm in width becomes a difference between 100mm or 120mm from that centre section.

Some people believe aquaplaning starts with your fronts because these need to cut through the water and allow the rears to then follow easier. All I know is it felt like my car floated on all 4 corners. Steering wheel went light and everything went quiet - so no tyre roar for a brief moment. And if you think about it these mid engine cars have less weigh over the nose.

My 996 came with 225 40 fronts on 18 inch wheels. But I switched to the 17 setup which has a 205 50 front. Your mind thinks it will feel awful and the car will have no grip. But then you drive it and realise that is just ridiculous. You would find it difficult [on a road] to tell me the car doesn't have enough grip.

In fact I even went for run out in the hills with some other Boxster owners just after I fitted my new skinnier setup to the 981 - before the body was repaired and painted. I had a spell in number 2 spot. We stopped to allow everyone else to catch up. The leading man who knew the roads well said he had tried very hard to lose me but just couldn't. I dont consider myself a quick driver so I'm very happy with that. Although if I'm honest I dont think it was all down to Me. I actually think the softer passive damper and softer higher profile tyres setup was quicker on the day because these roads were quite bumpy. And I honestly believe that an average driver is quicker with softer suspension and higher profile squidgy tyres, but thats another conversation for another day and I have gone on for long enough already.

Very interesting, I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed answer.

[HighwayStar]

ATM said:

What we don't see is Porsche probably quoted him 5 grand to fix this lot. Or maybe more. And I'd guess that scared him off.

They don't fix PSE valves so they will replace the whole exhaust. Does standard have valves? 2 grand maybe.

Brake discs rear only and pads will be a grand.

Tyres definitely a grand.

Oil leak is engine out and then fixing stuff easily a grand.

So that's how i get to 5.

If you had warranty I don't think you'd be saved from all of that. Maybe the oil leak is warranty but that's it. [b{I've heard different reports from owners about exhaust being a consumable item and so therefore not warranty.[/b] Obviously if you do have warranty I don't think you can decline remedial work like this or that may invalidate your warranty going forward.

On my previous 981 CS I had a valve seize on the bank exhaust. The exhaust was replaced under the extended warranty save me £3k. The dreaded PADM x3… for me extended warranty, £1870 for 3 yrs, is a no brainer.

[Bullitt 1]

MitchT said:

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm currently looking for a BMW 440i, this lovely Cayman caught my eye...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311304...

I'm not much of a Porsche expert so I don't know if these are affected by the bore scoring and IMS bearing issues that I've heard mentioned. Nor do I know how reliable the PDK and PASM systems are. At least this one doesn't appear to have PADM, which I'd consider a blessing!

I'll watch the thread with interest as I may yet be swayed by a nice 981!

That’s a lot of money for a 2.7

[paulguitar]

Bullitt 1 said:

MitchT said:

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm currently looking for a BMW 440i, this lovely Cayman caught my eye...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311304...

I'm not much of a Porsche expert so I don't know if these are affected by the bore scoring and IMS bearing issues that I've heard mentioned. Nor do I know how reliable the PDK and PASM systems are. At least this one doesn't appear to have PADM, which I'd consider a blessing!

I'll watch the thread with interest as I may yet be swayed by a nice 981!

That’s a lot of money for a 2.7

It's been on AutoTrader for 110 days...

[Riff Raff]

paulguitar said:

Bullitt 1 said:

MitchT said:

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm currently looking for a BMW 440i, this lovely Cayman caught my eye...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311304...

I'm not much of a Porsche expert so I don't know if these are affected by the bore scoring and IMS bearing issues that I've heard mentioned. Nor do I know how reliable the PDK and PASM systems are. At least this one doesn't appear to have PADM, which I'd consider a blessing!

I'll watch the thread with interest as I may yet be swayed by a nice 981!

That’s a lot of money for a 2.7

It's been on AutoTrader for 110 days...

Originally up at £29,500…..

[Hol]

Paul, I didn’t use him for my own purchase, but there’s a chap called Nick Giles who specialises in pre purchase inspections of Porsches, when you find a car that you really like

You can find him active on most Porsche FB pages, but in fairness, there are probably no guarantees he will identify a left field issue, but he should be able to look for common failure points.

[paulguitar]

Hol said:

Paul, I didn’t use him for my own purchase, but there’s a chap called Nick Giles who specialises in pre purchase inspections of Porsches, when you find a car that you really like

You can find him active on most Porsche FB pages, but in fairness, there are probably no guarantees he will identify a left field issue, but he should be able to look for common issues.

Thanks, Hol.


I am aware of Nick Gilles and had considered using him for this as he seems very reasonably priced. But I have been rather put off by the nightmare suffered with his service by Tame Racing Driver of this parish, and also his two Google reviews, both of them one star.


It's frustrating because, as I say, he is very reasonably priced and actually is located not too far at all from the car I am most interested in.

[ATM]

paulguitar said:

I have been rather put off by the nightmare suffered with his service by Tame Racing Driver of this parish

Where is the detail on Tame Racing Driver and the car he bought?

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

I have been rather put off by the nightmare suffered with his service by Tame Racing Driver of this parish

Where is the detail on Tame Racing Driver and the car he bought?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=2037330

[Ed.Neumann]

paulguitar said:

trumpton7291 said:

paulguitar said:

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

Having driven into standing water on the M4 and narrowly saving an aquaplane spin I would def suggest replacing tires early on these. 4.5mm is a bit bold however.

There was a thread about that by someone else who'd done the same in one of these. Slightly concerning.

3.5mm a sensible time to change, do you think?

Most new tyres come with 8mm of depth now, a handful of sportier tyres come with 7mm. I think the n new Bridgestone sport tyre, that is getting very good reviews for steering feel, is 6mm from new. No wonder steering feel feels better with 20% less tread wobble interfering.

I wouldn't let tyres on a Porsche drop below 3.5mm or get older than 5 years.

So, at 4.5mm there is only 1mm remaining really. Porsche say to replace at 3mm to reduce the risk of aquaplaning. Which makes me laugh as Approved used cars will sell you a car with "...at least 3mm remaining." so you could need to replace them after a tank or two of fuel has been used.

But, I reckon 3.5mm is about right to change.

[ATM]

Ed.Neumann said:

Most new tyres come with 8mm of depth now, a handful of sportier tyres come with 7mm. I think the n new Bridgestone sport tyre, that is getting very good reviews for steering feel, is 6mm from new. No wonder steering feel feels better with 20% less tread wobble interfering.

I think Cup 2 only come with 5mm when new. Obviously lethal in the wet.

In this pic is a Cup 2 tyre for the rear axle of a modern GT3 compared to one for a much older 911. These are road legal tyres. And No that's not worn it's a new tyre.

And yes Porsche will let you order a brand GT3/GT4 type car from them with these tyres on and then wave you off as you leave the showroom and tip toe down the road in the pooring rain.

[Ed.Neumann]

I ran my 996 on Cup 2's summer before last, I bought some wheels and they were on them, they still had 5mm on them and were a year old, and they were amazing, until....I went out and the temp had dropped and there was that horrid drizzle in the air.

You could just feel how edgy they were while warming up, and you just couldn't keep any temperature in them.
I think the coldest day I had before then was about 8 or 9 degrees, this was 5 degrees and the difference was incredible.

The PS4's went straight back on again and that was the last time I used Cup 2s.