This is handy, just bought a track 944
Discussion
martinnitram said:
GC8 said:
With judicious cutting I believe that you can make the steel doors virtually as light as Pro-9s GRP offerings, but with the advantage of their fitting.
What would you cut away to achieve this ?I have to emphasise that I haven't ever modified a door to this extent and I am accepting what I was told in a Future Classics paddock last year, by a competitor who had struggled to make his Pro-9 doors fit and had modified a standard door which he was then able to compare.
GC8 said:
A wet laid carbon fibre replacement would be nice, but no one seems to be making one in RHD...
I have a fibreglass one that was supplied by Ian at county classics, way lighter than standard. GC8 said:
I see that as a challenge Neil. I wonder whether you can unpick and cut away the extra metal that a sunroof car has? With the fully welded in cage that Kevin fits you could cut the whole roof off and weld a non-sunroof and part pillar section in.
You then lighten this by having a thinner roof panel brazed on 937 GTS style.
If your going this far you could put on a carbon/kevlar roof instead of a non sunroof one. You then lighten this by having a thinner roof panel brazed on 937 GTS style.
BTW, with steel doors and roof, I have my S2 down to 1045kg.
edh said:
How much? be very interested to hear where all the weight's gone from.
Nothing too special. Acid dipped shell, fibreglass front end, all heat insulation removed, fibreglass dash, no heater, headlights, plastic side windows, carbon seat. Very Light weight intake and exhaust. Can't think of anything else right now. But if it had mag wheels, and carbon/Kevlar roof, rear quarters and doors it would be easily under 1000kgs It's was 1060kg at snett last time I used it 2 years ago, and it had an indicated 1/4 tank of fuel.
edh said:
Quite a lot of "special" there...
Mine is a stripped road car - soundproofing & seats out, two GRP seats, no cage & still over 1200kg. Would be great to make it lighter, but don't want to spend too much doing it..
To get it really light you have to do a proper build, not a stripped road car. You really need to take it back to bare shell, that way you start off with the lightest shell possible then you can see for yourself how much everything weighs as it goes back in. Mine is a stripped road car - soundproofing & seats out, two GRP seats, no cage & still over 1200kg. Would be great to make it lighter, but don't want to spend too much doing it..
I was running at just a tad over 1100kg then removed heater and all associated pipe work, pop up lights and installed the fg dash, I couldn't believe the difference it made to the way it drove, it totally transformed it, I went from being happy to creep into the top 10, to a regular top 5 car In cscc future classics.
At the moment Simon there is a parity between the PCGB regs and the Dunlop regs, only a couple of small differences in that Dunlop allows one to use M030 callipers and the weight is a touch lower at 1150 Kg including the driver. I am currently about 1180 with me and the fuel on board but would finish a bit lighter. As you know my car is built ground up on a dipped EMC motorsport shell.
One point not often mentioned is that cars tend to end up different by a fair bit when weighed on different peoples/places scales so I will wait and see what I weigh in at after the first race.
Compared to wild mans car mine still has the glass rear hatch (ISTR 25+ Kg when we weighed the thing), heater, original dash, centre console, door cards, door inner panels, door crash bars, mirrors and possibly heavier fibreglass (my fibreglass bonnet weighs 12 Kg).
Both PCGB and Dunlop require a glass rear hatch but they both now allow lexan side windows so I was one of about 1/2 dozen people who ordered sets from ACW recently. They look fantastic and saved about 20 Kg with the mechs and wiring also removed.
I could of course remove the heater, try and get a different dash, bin the centre console and gut the doors completely and probably save another 40 Kg but honestly I don't fancy a few of those things for safety reasons.
One point not often mentioned is that cars tend to end up different by a fair bit when weighed on different peoples/places scales so I will wait and see what I weigh in at after the first race.
Compared to wild mans car mine still has the glass rear hatch (ISTR 25+ Kg when we weighed the thing), heater, original dash, centre console, door cards, door inner panels, door crash bars, mirrors and possibly heavier fibreglass (my fibreglass bonnet weighs 12 Kg).
Both PCGB and Dunlop require a glass rear hatch but they both now allow lexan side windows so I was one of about 1/2 dozen people who ordered sets from ACW recently. They look fantastic and saved about 20 Kg with the mechs and wiring also removed.
I could of course remove the heater, try and get a different dash, bin the centre console and gut the doors completely and probably save another 40 Kg but honestly I don't fancy a few of those things for safety reasons.
I should caveat a few points from above. We are talking of the order 10+ Kg or so differences here, its the sort of thing where I have heard odd weight measurements in the past that don't add up with the numbers I have heard from another time and place.
1100 Kg dry is a good target I reckon.
All of these cars if built similarly end up at similar weights and I agree it seems a real struggle to ever get the weight down on cars which are not built ground up on dipped shells. One number I have been told in the past is that the difference is about 60 Kg but I think its worse than that as there is a mountain of junk in the cars you just don't need and it all gets binned when building a car ground up.
1100 Kg dry is a good target I reckon.
All of these cars if built similarly end up at similar weights and I agree it seems a real struggle to ever get the weight down on cars which are not built ground up on dipped shells. One number I have been told in the past is that the difference is about 60 Kg but I think its worse than that as there is a mountain of junk in the cars you just don't need and it all gets binned when building a car ground up.
wildman0609 said:
all heat insulation removed
We put all the front tinware back on, it didn't seem to weigh much to be honest and I am glad its there as the thing gets unbelievably hot as it is. I think there is a lot of weight to be found in better quality parts. There is a spanish outfit making a carbon bonnet that weighs under 3 Kg whereas my fibreglass one weighs 12 compared to ISTR 16 or 17 for the stock one. Can all add up to big gains.
NJH said:
Compared to wild mans car mine still has the glass rear hatch (ISTR 25+ Kg when we weighed the thing), heater, original dash, centre console, door cards, door inner panels, door crash bars, mirrors and possibly heavier fibreglass (my fibreglass bonnet weighs 12 Kg).
I could of course remove the heater, try and get a different dash, bin the centre console and gut the doors completely and probably save another 40 Kg but honestly I don't fancy a few of those things for safety reasons.
mine still has the glass rear hatch, spent ages trying to fit the crappy one I was sold by the dodgy man in Birmingham (not Kev Eacock)and ended up breaking it, so stuck with the glass. I also tried to cut the mental out of the door inner panels, but it kept breaking the discs on my angle grinder so I gave up with that. I also left the door bars as for the amount you save its not worth removing them. one of the best weight savings was window winder mechanisms and motors, take them out when doing the glass.I could of course remove the heater, try and get a different dash, bin the centre console and gut the doors completely and probably save another 40 Kg but honestly I don't fancy a few of those things for safety reasons.
I tried light weight wing mirrors, but I could never see anything and they kept getting smashed off on corner marker bollards, so back with the original ones now.
wildman0609 said:
edh said:
Quite a lot of "special" there...
Mine is a stripped road car - soundproofing & seats out, two GRP seats, no cage & still over 1200kg. Would be great to make it lighter, but don't want to spend too much doing it..
To get it really light you have to do a proper build, not a stripped road car. You really need to take it back to bare shell, that way you start off with the lightest shell possible then you can see for yourself how much everything weighs as it goes back in. Mine is a stripped road car - soundproofing & seats out, two GRP seats, no cage & still over 1200kg. Would be great to make it lighter, but don't want to spend too much doing it..
I was running at just a tad over 1100kg then removed heater and all associated pipe work, pop up lights and installed the fg dash, I couldn't believe the difference it made to the way it drove, it totally transformed it, I went from being happy to creep into the top 10, to a regular top 5 car In cscc future classics.
wildman0609 said:
one of the best weight savings was window winder mechanisms and motors, take them out when doing the glass.
100% agree. Recently got 30 Kg out of the car by taking the PAS off again, removing the hand brake system and removing the leccy windows , mechs, glass on both sides and replacing with Lexan on both the doors and 1/4 lights. Most of that weight drop, well over 20 Kg came from the windows and mechs.
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