968 - what a great car!
Discussion
g7jhp said:
GC8 said:
Not really. There weren't any digital cameras in 1994 and I have never been particularly keen on taking photographs.
I'm not really sure why you have to be so aggressive. I asked if you had a pic and wasn't aware you'd sold it.We're all here because we appreciate Porsche (or most of us are), lets have more positive posts.
Guess your car looked something like this?
Yes very similar but without the decal and the Cup1s were silver. Maritime wasn't the popular colour then that it is now and 'purple' wheels were too much for most to take.
All I have left from that car now is the rear seat, unfortunately.
TGJR said:
GC8 - 15000 plus posts and thats what you come up with. Pathetic.
Don't bother replying again because I have learnt my lesson and will not be wasting my time on a site that is being patrolled by the likes of you.
Are you offended? You should have considered how your post would be taken then, shouldn't you?Don't bother replying again because I have learnt my lesson and will not be wasting my time on a site that is being patrolled by the likes of you.
Remember too that it was not me who posted the photographs - I simply offered an explanation as to why posts like that are made.
TGJR said:
I didn't realise that PH forums were inhabited by so many old cynics.
If you post a positive 968 comment, it is absolutely, positively guaranteed that two individuals will show up and s
t all over the thread. It's been this way for many years and will no doubt continue to be for years to come.plenty said:
TGJR said:
I didn't realise that PH forums were inhabited by so many old cynics.
If you post a positive 968 comment, it is absolutely, positively guaranteed that two individuals will show up and st all over the thread. It's been this way for many years and will no doubt continue to be for years to come.And don't call me old.
I agree with that, CS nonsense in particular is very tiring but I guess guys have to justify why they spent twice as much on one as an 'identical' sport that had some goodies thrown in for free by PCGB. As much as love my S2 race car a well sorted 944 turbo spanks all the N/A cars by such a large margin it ain't funny.
NJH said:
I agree with that, CS nonsense in particular is very tiring but I guess guys have to justify why they spent twice as much on one as an 'identical' sport that had some goodies thrown in for free by PCGB. As much as love my S2 race car a well sorted 944 turbo spanks all the N/A cars by such a large margin it ain't funny.
I thought my CS a great car, and the fact is they only built so few and so long ago. If its not as good as a 944 or just simlar to the rest of the 944/968 range really doesnt matter. What people are buying today is a very rare production 'lightweight' Porsche. In other words it is classed as a special car, if you agree with it not.
Compare it handling wise to any other Porsche of that era this side of 100K and I personally think it wins hands down. After all it was rated (I believe) one of the best handling cars out there at its launch......... Something the standard 968 was not and I have no idea about a 944.
I always thought the CS lacked power, but of all the cars I've driven on the mountain twisities of the Pyrenees it was by far the most enjoyable, exceptionally well engineered and very capable. Driving those roads for 300 miles a day you start to realise you do not need excess power for full on enjoyment and you soon get to know a good car from a bad one, many have litterly fallen apart around me as it is very hard driving. The CS drove me there, drove me back and I enjoyed every minute with absolutly no issues..
Its been years since I owned one, so values or investment potential are of no issue to me. But if I had the dosh and the space, one would be sat in my garage now.
Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 27th October 10:06
God not again. For the fifty millionth time over the years all 968s are rare cars, there is nothing especially so about the CS. The sport is a CS with extra goodies chucked in for free by PCGB at the time who were desperate to sell cars. It doesn't seem to matter how many times this historical FACT is stated for the same stuff about the CS to be repeated over and over. The standard non M030 suspension on the CS is more or less identical to late 944 turbos.
If you want to buy a rare 968 buy a tiptronic.
They are all great cars (tiptronic less so).
If you want to buy a rare 968 buy a tiptronic.
They are all great cars (tiptronic less so).
While we're talking 968s, can any of you guys who've owned/own 968s tell me how comfortable the standard seats are? Not the CS. I'm thinking of getting a 968 or 944S2/Turbo. I'm taller than average, and find real problems in a lot of cars in getting the seat back far enough, head clearance, a good driving position and seat back that won't cripple me. Tried a Boxster 986 at the weekend, and it was all a bit too tight. With 968s being a bit thin on the ground, it's not as if I can nip into the local dealers to try one for size.
Any comments welcome.
Thanks
Any comments welcome.
Thanks
As above: providing that you are tall, then a 60mm steering wheel spacer (or two) will solve your problems. Smaller wheels don't usually make a difference as the original wheels have an offset centre, but this feature can be retained by using a Momo offset centre adapter, if desired.
The spacers give a subtle lift but the real benefit comes from allowing you to sit much further back, straightening your legs which then clear the wheel easily.
All Porsches had good seats then. Both the normal and the sports seats were made by Recaro and theyre excellent. It has become common to incorrectly call the regular seats 'comfort', but I will bite my tongue...
The spacers give a subtle lift but the real benefit comes from allowing you to sit much further back, straightening your legs which then clear the wheel easily.
All Porsches had good seats then. Both the normal and the sports seats were made by Recaro and theyre excellent. It has become common to incorrectly call the regular seats 'comfort', but I will bite my tongue...
With regards to seat adjustment: I am 6'3" and if I put the seat all the way back in any of these cars then I cannot touch the pedals!
Series two cars (which is pretty much what a 968 is) have a little more legroom as supplied by virtue of their lower seats and slightly raised steering column, but even a 924 or series one 944 can be made to accommodate people far larger than me, if the right things are changed. You wont have any problems.
You can change the seats easily too, if they aren't what you are looking for. I fitted early style sports seats into my Club Sport which was a bit of a PITA, but electric type sports seats will fit easily and are brilliant too, although they are very heavy. If you buy a car that already has sports seats they your are unlikely to be dissatisfied.
Series two cars (which is pretty much what a 968 is) have a little more legroom as supplied by virtue of their lower seats and slightly raised steering column, but even a 924 or series one 944 can be made to accommodate people far larger than me, if the right things are changed. You wont have any problems.
You can change the seats easily too, if they aren't what you are looking for. I fitted early style sports seats into my Club Sport which was a bit of a PITA, but electric type sports seats will fit easily and are brilliant too, although they are very heavy. If you buy a car that already has sports seats they your are unlikely to be dissatisfied.
I don't have an issue with the 968 CS mythology as it pulls the appreciation (and values? - you can't have a PH thread about Porsches without mentioning values) up for the model in general. This has a knock-on effect on the 944s and gives me an opportunity to feel smug about my massively non-standard purist-upsetting 944 Turbo S that eats 968 CSs for breakfast.
As for GC8's comment - I laughed! (But then again I'd expect nowt less from him)
As for GC8's comment - I laughed! (But then again I'd expect nowt less from him)
blade7 said:
Wozy68 said:
If its not as good as a 944 or just simlar to the rest of the 944/968 range really doesnt matter. What people are buying today is a very rare production 'lightweight' Porsche. In other words it is classed as a special car, if you agree with it not.
Excluding the Turbo every production 944 up to and including the S2 is lighter than the "lightweight" 968 CS. I wonder how many CS's were supplied with MO30 brakes/suspension/sunroof delete and an LSD ?.k. In 1997 the 996 was rated a far better 911 than the previous 993. Yet just what a difference (in price) there is now between the one and the other. The CS was and is a special (read limited edition) version of a standard 968. Doesn't matter if ain't that special, it's still an official Porsche model built in small numbers that has the CS moniker.
Doesn't matter if a 944 is better/lighter/faster, problem for the 944 is that they built far more of them.
It gets just as tiring listening to the same amount if crap from people dishing the 968CS. Get over it, whatever the argument it will always be worth more than a 944 of whatever model. It's bound to, because it's a rare factory model. It's also a great Porsche, like many others.
Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 27th October 22:04
They weren't a limited edition though. I bought one because my means didn't stretch to the full spec 968 coupe. They were a reduced cost model designed to make the cars more attractive to buyers, and Porsche would build as many as they could sell! Porsche were on their arse and the 968 was far too expensive.
If my assisted purchase scheme had stretched to a Lux then Id probably have had one. Id certainly have opted for a Sport had that been available, although that is a Club Sport too, with options.
If my assisted purchase scheme had stretched to a Lux then Id probably have had one. Id certainly have opted for a Sport had that been available, although that is a Club Sport too, with options.
GC8 said:
They weren't a limited edition though. I bought one because my means didn't stretch to the full spec 968 coupe. They were a reduced cost model designed to make the cars more attractive to buyers, and Porsche would build as many as they could sell! Porsche were on their arse and the 968 was far too expensive.
If my assisted purchase scheme had stretched to a Lux then Id probably have had one. Id certainly have opted for a Sport had that been available, although that is a Club Sport too, with options.
Ok they only managed to sell less than 200. Will that pacify you? They are rare, and rightly or wrongly worth more than a Lux, Sport etc etc.If my assisted purchase scheme had stretched to a Lux then Id probably have had one. Id certainly have opted for a Sport had that been available, although that is a Club Sport too, with options.
I guess limited addition was the wrong description I really don't think it matters
Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 27th October 22:11
Just bought a 968 club sport the other week with significant mods (see my profile) and FWIW whether its a limited edition, investment or whatever I can honestly say its one of the best handling cars I have owned. Even at £20k+ its a bargain which makes the sport versions well worth it at under 10k. Just buy a LSD, suspension and big brakes and its ACE! I bought it for a try but I think it will last a lot longer!
In fairness Nigel, with KW suspension, 911 brakes and a Kaaz differential, theres no real difference between your CS, a Sport, or even a full fat 968 (or even a 944!).
Did you pay £20,000? There werent many Maritime 968s - it could be my old car. Bummer if my old car is now worth twice what I sold it for when its twice as old/used. Does it have mostly Merlin Nottingham/Chatsworth service stamps?
Did you pay £20,000? There werent many Maritime 968s - it could be my old car. Bummer if my old car is now worth twice what I sold it for when its twice as old/used. Does it have mostly Merlin Nottingham/Chatsworth service stamps?
The 968 CS or Sport are great cars, they're the same thing bar options on the CS that potentially made it similar to the Sport. I've had a Sport for about nine years, and am the third owner. I don't use it now, and haven't for years really.
The 944 M030 suspension as I understood was closer to the standard 968 CS/Sport equipment, rather than the standard 944, maybe only limited to roll bar diameter or something like that. The 944's sat significantly higher than the 968 CS/Sport, maybe even higher than the Coupe but closer to that for sure. The M030 option on the Sport or CS made it harsh, but desirable now. As many suggest, the original M030 parts are worn or corroded so much it is more economical to fit the likes of KW or other Porsche model big brakes, to get a similar spec, but new Porsche customers seek originality usually.
The CS wasn't built as a limited edition, or because Porsche weren't selling many. It is available in lower numbers because they weren't so popular, especially in the U.K. It is a rare car overall, and will command a higher price more if it has the sunroof delete option and M030 and in the right condition.
Porsche made the 968 Sport, which 'is' a CS, with most of the options that were available for the CS, standardised. The comfort trim was an option on the CS, and despite the front seats at least still being Recaro, they were adjustable, and it gave the buyer rear seats too. Oddly, many people bought the CS which was the cheaper car, and chose the Comfort trim which gave them a nicer interior with that rear seat capacity but still a cheaper car than the Sport. The CS has always been the sought after model for those seeking a sportier model car or lightweight, but still a lesser car than an RS or other very rare or costly model.
The actual rarer car if anyone still wants to refer to them as such, or chooses to research it, is the Sport, this is because it was only made for the U.K. where the others were a worldwide model. It still wasn't a limited edition, and it was the car Porsche built to increase the sales of them, but for the U.K. alone, as the British driver found the CS too impractical. We all like central locking and electric mirrors and windows, plus who wants to have to open the left door on a right hand drive car, to get to a pull knob to open the boot for the shopping? So the Sport has an electronic release.
Just like the sunroof delete was nice at the time, we have grown used to how good these car have proved themselves to be, they are now sought after as a drivers car, so the likes of sunroofs are no longer preferred, but M030 and LSD are. So the values change again.
So many of the Sports have been devalued and frequently broken up, dismissed as an inadequate car by the poorly researched, seeking out (in their opinion) the purest CS model, and then the CS model so commonly bought and used for track fun, that the Sport is just as capable of, now there are not many of either. Have you noticed barely any are for sale? Ebay and the like used to be swamped with them, and not that long ago, now you see the same car being sold over and over, and the only others are Coupe's and Convertibles, or Tiptronics which have always been the cheapest of any older model Porsche.
Both models are still seen as entry level Porsches or poor mans Porsche, not as much as the 924, or what was the later flared arch version, and very similarly named 944 because of it, but still so, mainly to those that could historically afford the 911, so they became cheaper, even cheaper later because they can be neglected, having become an affordable car to some that realised they had the money to get one, but then not look after it.
Like all old but good Sports cars we now discuss with fond memories, all of them are sought after in good condition again and values are being discussed, some are getting a little daft, but it's all good.
The problem only exists with people not respecting others likes, or others pride of ownership, and slating the car they haven't got, or regretfully sold and wish they hadn't perhaps. So many think they have the faster or better car, more valuable car maybe. A bit like beauty being in the eye of the beholder, leave the owners to say what they like about their car. If you don't agree don't buy one. Some of these old 968's in the right hands, will seriously embarrass some very expensive 911's or other top end cars. Of course cars can be 'made' better by modification. The 968 CS/Sport doesn't really need much of that.
Anyone can change a car though, but those faster than you things are pointless mid thread, or best, left to other discussions, or more relevant, on private roads, or track somewhere, where those could look a little humble.
Here's to the 968 CS/Sport which along with the U.K. DC2 Integra if I recall, was voted the best drivers car of all time at some point. No other car discussed here was, so please feel perfectly good about your ownership, and as smug as you like :-)
Mine is in a million pieces at the bodyshop (not crashed) so not feeling great about that yet. If it helps it sell then I will. I think there were only about 136 white ones so keeping it the same colour, but may change the red wheels and script, to pale blue..........or Martini stripes, don't know yet, it's been there a year already. Was considering fitting a non sunroof roof panel, but can't find a non sunroof black headlining.
If you're after one, give it some thought as I suspect the price isn't coming down.
The 944 M030 suspension as I understood was closer to the standard 968 CS/Sport equipment, rather than the standard 944, maybe only limited to roll bar diameter or something like that. The 944's sat significantly higher than the 968 CS/Sport, maybe even higher than the Coupe but closer to that for sure. The M030 option on the Sport or CS made it harsh, but desirable now. As many suggest, the original M030 parts are worn or corroded so much it is more economical to fit the likes of KW or other Porsche model big brakes, to get a similar spec, but new Porsche customers seek originality usually.
The CS wasn't built as a limited edition, or because Porsche weren't selling many. It is available in lower numbers because they weren't so popular, especially in the U.K. It is a rare car overall, and will command a higher price more if it has the sunroof delete option and M030 and in the right condition.
Porsche made the 968 Sport, which 'is' a CS, with most of the options that were available for the CS, standardised. The comfort trim was an option on the CS, and despite the front seats at least still being Recaro, they were adjustable, and it gave the buyer rear seats too. Oddly, many people bought the CS which was the cheaper car, and chose the Comfort trim which gave them a nicer interior with that rear seat capacity but still a cheaper car than the Sport. The CS has always been the sought after model for those seeking a sportier model car or lightweight, but still a lesser car than an RS or other very rare or costly model.
The actual rarer car if anyone still wants to refer to them as such, or chooses to research it, is the Sport, this is because it was only made for the U.K. where the others were a worldwide model. It still wasn't a limited edition, and it was the car Porsche built to increase the sales of them, but for the U.K. alone, as the British driver found the CS too impractical. We all like central locking and electric mirrors and windows, plus who wants to have to open the left door on a right hand drive car, to get to a pull knob to open the boot for the shopping? So the Sport has an electronic release.
Just like the sunroof delete was nice at the time, we have grown used to how good these car have proved themselves to be, they are now sought after as a drivers car, so the likes of sunroofs are no longer preferred, but M030 and LSD are. So the values change again.
So many of the Sports have been devalued and frequently broken up, dismissed as an inadequate car by the poorly researched, seeking out (in their opinion) the purest CS model, and then the CS model so commonly bought and used for track fun, that the Sport is just as capable of, now there are not many of either. Have you noticed barely any are for sale? Ebay and the like used to be swamped with them, and not that long ago, now you see the same car being sold over and over, and the only others are Coupe's and Convertibles, or Tiptronics which have always been the cheapest of any older model Porsche.
Both models are still seen as entry level Porsches or poor mans Porsche, not as much as the 924, or what was the later flared arch version, and very similarly named 944 because of it, but still so, mainly to those that could historically afford the 911, so they became cheaper, even cheaper later because they can be neglected, having become an affordable car to some that realised they had the money to get one, but then not look after it.
Like all old but good Sports cars we now discuss with fond memories, all of them are sought after in good condition again and values are being discussed, some are getting a little daft, but it's all good.
The problem only exists with people not respecting others likes, or others pride of ownership, and slating the car they haven't got, or regretfully sold and wish they hadn't perhaps. So many think they have the faster or better car, more valuable car maybe. A bit like beauty being in the eye of the beholder, leave the owners to say what they like about their car. If you don't agree don't buy one. Some of these old 968's in the right hands, will seriously embarrass some very expensive 911's or other top end cars. Of course cars can be 'made' better by modification. The 968 CS/Sport doesn't really need much of that.
Anyone can change a car though, but those faster than you things are pointless mid thread, or best, left to other discussions, or more relevant, on private roads, or track somewhere, where those could look a little humble.
Here's to the 968 CS/Sport which along with the U.K. DC2 Integra if I recall, was voted the best drivers car of all time at some point. No other car discussed here was, so please feel perfectly good about your ownership, and as smug as you like :-)
Mine is in a million pieces at the bodyshop (not crashed) so not feeling great about that yet. If it helps it sell then I will. I think there were only about 136 white ones so keeping it the same colour, but may change the red wheels and script, to pale blue..........or Martini stripes, don't know yet, it's been there a year already. Was considering fitting a non sunroof roof panel, but can't find a non sunroof black headlining.
If you're after one, give it some thought as I suspect the price isn't coming down.
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