Discussion
benjj said:
Oh, right, the 951 thing, gotcha 
Good tip on carpet etc. Will have a look on the 924 forum(s) and see what's what. Ta.
Yes, the 944 Turbo was developed on 15" wheels and the wheels ended up on the '86 series two. They have sufficient clearance to fit over Brembo brake calipers which the 1987 pattern (and 944 part numbered) replacements do not.Good tip on carpet etc. Will have a look on the 924 forum(s) and see what's what. Ta.
With regards to the carpet and trim: Ed and I have both removed the sound deadening and then refitted the carpets and its an excellent compromise. The rear seat squab will muffle most of the transaxle noise and it weighs very little.
The reason that I suggested 1987/1988 924S carpet was that it is the later style ('Flotexy' as opposed to the twisted loop of 924 & series one 944 carpet), but cut to the pattern of the early 944, which used a one piece front. Series two cars had a two part front on which the join was covered by the longer centre console. You can get away with it on a series one car if you fit a cassette box, but its a PITA and theyre mostly all knackered now.
I have made my own lightweight carpets but its an even bigger PITA and even after accurately patterning them, they struggle to look 'right', although they do look very Skunkwerks, without the necessary heat shaping/stretching etc.
Interesting stuff, thanks.
The only OEM carpet I want is the boot/deck. The seats are on aluminium fillets through the floor so won't be carpeting under there. I have plain black mats in the front which are velcro on and do t budge.
I'll trim over the transmission tunnel myself with a thin carpet or fabric I think
The only OEM carpet I want is the boot/deck. The seats are on aluminium fillets through the floor so won't be carpeting under there. I have plain black mats in the front which are velcro on and do t budge.
I'll trim over the transmission tunnel myself with a thin carpet or fabric I think
The boot OEM carpet piece is ridiculously heavy due to the thick foam backing.
You may be better off having a piece made up instead. I've had all the sound deadening out of mine and the carpets replaced, I had the rear seat area carpeted and it cut down a lot of noise.
I'm running a half cage too but with my seats far back and as low as they go I'm only just in front of the main roll hoop. A full cage would be a fanny on in a road car.
You may be better off having a piece made up instead. I've had all the sound deadening out of mine and the carpets replaced, I had the rear seat area carpeted and it cut down a lot of noise.
I'm running a half cage too but with my seats far back and as low as they go I'm only just in front of the main roll hoop. A full cage would be a fanny on in a road car.
benjj said:
edh said:
Have you considered it might be cheaper in the long run to have two 944's? 
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C549712
The thought has occurred to me!http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C549712
However, there just aren't many (possibly any) 1981 manufactured cars about. The reason I bought mine is that it is a November 1981 build, that means it can be a true Class 3 historic rally car.
There is a new Class 4 (build date from Jan 1 1982 to Dec 31 1985) but Class 4 cars can only win their own class, not overall honours.
If I did buy another it would have to be a LHD
Can a 944 really win overall on things like Tour Britannia? You know better than what you are up against but I'd have thought that the 911 hordes and MK 2 Escorts etc etc would prevail.
Can the suspension be changed to coil over rears and still remain in homologated spec for those sorts of events? Indeed, what is the scope for mods in these sort of events, ie can you fit something like Augment Automotive's ECU, can and fuel pressure regulator?
The 220 944 Turbo was homologated for competition (the only 944 that was, I think) and might be a great base car for a Class 4 Historic car if you can find one and afford to prep it.
Why Is LHD important
Have you thought about a 928 for a Tour Britania/ race/ track car and keeping the 944 for the road and road rallies. There's a few 928 prepped for pre 81 completion.
Does the actual car have to have been built pre Dec 1981 or is it just the model, ie could you buy the 1983 car in the link above and still enter it in Class 3 as it would be in the same spec as a 1981 car
andy97 said:
A couple of random thoughts,
Can a 944 really win overall on things like Tour Britannia? You know better than what you are up against but I'd have thought that the 911 hordes and MK 2 Escorts etc etc would prevail.
Can the suspension be changed to coil over rears and still remain in homologated spec for those sorts of events? Indeed, what is the scope for mods in these sort of events, ie can you fit something like Augment Automotive's ECU, can and fuel pressure regulator?
The 220 944 Turbo was homologated for competition (the only 944 that was, I think) and might be a great base car for a Class 4 Historic car if you can find one and afford to prep it.
Why Is LHD important
Have you thought about a 928 for a Tour Britania/ race/ track car and keeping the 944 for the road and road rallies. There's a few 928 prepped for pre 81 completion.
Does the actual car have to have been built pre Dec 1981 or is it just the model, ie could you buy the 1983 car in the link above and still enter it in Class 3 as it would be in the same spec as a 1981 car
Good questions. Can a 944 really win overall on things like Tour Britannia? You know better than what you are up against but I'd have thought that the 911 hordes and MK 2 Escorts etc etc would prevail.
Can the suspension be changed to coil over rears and still remain in homologated spec for those sorts of events? Indeed, what is the scope for mods in these sort of events, ie can you fit something like Augment Automotive's ECU, can and fuel pressure regulator?
The 220 944 Turbo was homologated for competition (the only 944 that was, I think) and might be a great base car for a Class 4 Historic car if you can find one and afford to prep it.
Why Is LHD important
Have you thought about a 928 for a Tour Britania/ race/ track car and keeping the 944 for the road and road rallies. There's a few 928 prepped for pre 81 completion.
Does the actual car have to have been built pre Dec 1981 or is it just the model, ie could you buy the 1983 car in the link above and still enter it in Class 3 as it would be in the same spec as a 1981 car
On performance, yes. On all of these kinds of events the winning is 75% from the navigator's seat, 25% from the driver. You do still need a turn of pace but it's not quite as high a priority as you'd think. That said the 944 iis a quick little car. During LeJog 2013 I managed the 2nd fastest of 71 cars up the Rest & Be Thankful hillclimb. The other 70 cars included Porsche 911s, Alpine A110s, Astons, Gordinis, early BMWs, Mini Coopers etc. The quickest car (beat me by 1 second) was a Mk1 Golf GTi with a very handy driver.
Suspension needs to remain as originally fitted. It can be upgraded but not changed. In my case the 944 has a torsion bar rear suspension setup. I could re-index them for a drop but not replace with coilovers. Adding a spring to the damper (as a coilover unit) would be sailing close to the MSA wind. May pass, may not.
944T would be a great car but I've no real interest in Class 4. It would be a hell of a lot of fun but those cars are prohibited from winning an event outright. Class 4 can only win honours in class at best.
LHD as Simon says, there just aren't any RHD ones left.
Dates: the individual car itself needs to have been manufactured on or before Dec31 1981 for MSA/FIA rally regs.
Yep, an excellent idea. They have form on the Monte too.
I came perilously close to buying a Carrera GT just before Christmas. French LHD car that had been off the road for 14 years. Sadly stored badly and it nearly broke in half when pulled out of the outbuilding. Shame as I had an agreed €18k to buy it.
Owner has broken it for spares and already sold most of it to German buyers.
As for 931, will give that some thought.
I came perilously close to buying a Carrera GT just before Christmas. French LHD car that had been off the road for 14 years. Sadly stored badly and it nearly broke in half when pulled out of the outbuilding. Shame as I had an agreed €18k to buy it.
Owner has broken it for spares and already sold most of it to German buyers.
As for 931, will give that some thought.
On the torsion bar front I have had 27mm Sway-a-way bars in my car from when it was a road car, bought from Paragon Products in the US of A. I never personally had a problem with them on the road with Koni rears, with a.n.other rears such as GAZ (the non rear coilover set for a 944) I think I would be comfortable going up to 28 mm or 29 mm as the Koni shocks run mental high gas pressure and thus feel rock hard. Note that many of the race cars you see have had the torsion bars replaced even if they run coilovers.
I don't know of any here that require them to be retained, if the regs allow for coilovers. In other words one was fine with removing the torsion bars if they wanted to for the PCGB club championship but I only knew of one car that did that. Some regs have specific clauses about numbers of springs which means that one can't use a coilover, this is typical in historic type stuff where the regs are stopping people from replacing the whole mode of a cars suspension such as binning off leaf springs and replacing with coilovers. In those situations torsion bars have to be retained but there is nothing to stop one from buying aftermarket upgraded bars from the states. A nice set of 28 or 29 mm bars would pair up really nice with 450 lb springs up front, its what I would do if I ever get round to buying an early 2.5.
No the point I was making was more about replacing knackered 30 year old torsion bars with new ones, quite a few people have done that whilst also running a coilover. Its worth remembering that you have to re-index anyway and the number of hours required to thoroughly setup a race car is eye watering anyway.
No the point I was making was more about replacing knackered 30 year old torsion bars with new ones, quite a few people have done that whilst also running a coilover. Its worth remembering that you have to re-index anyway and the number of hours required to thoroughly setup a race car is eye watering anyway.
Not had chance to do much recently but that's about to change. My wife's Golf has gone pop so am lending her my E39 for a bit and will use the 944 as daily wheels for a month or so. That should galvanise me into action as it'll be so f
king uncomfortable!
Some small progress though, wheel based.
I bought a set of early deep dish 15'' Teledials and they've been blasted by Talkwrench and are ready for paint.
I also managed to pick up a set of matching proper metal centre caps. They were in st state so I gave them some love in the garage. Really chuffed at how much detail I've managed to keep.
This is the winter rally set of Cookie Cutters. The Teledials above will be finished in exactly the same paint and I'll do the centrecaps in some spare Porsche Montego Black to match the body colour. Well swank!
More to come shortly. As I'll be using the car I'll need to sort a few things. The passenger footwell is currently full of Pagid discs, pads and bits so they need to go on. The speedo cable needs replacing and the oil catch can installing. Busy busy.
king uncomfortable!Some small progress though, wheel based.
I bought a set of early deep dish 15'' Teledials and they've been blasted by Talkwrench and are ready for paint.
I also managed to pick up a set of matching proper metal centre caps. They were in s
t state so I gave them some love in the garage. Really chuffed at how much detail I've managed to keep.This is the winter rally set of Cookie Cutters. The Teledials above will be finished in exactly the same paint and I'll do the centrecaps in some spare Porsche Montego Black to match the body colour. Well swank!
More to come shortly. As I'll be using the car I'll need to sort a few things. The passenger footwell is currently full of Pagid discs, pads and bits so they need to go on. The speedo cable needs replacing and the oil catch can installing. Busy busy.
I'll be selling a set of 4 early offset Cookie Cutters shortly. They were a bit of an experiment as they were media blasted and then clearcoated over the bare metal. I think they look ace. They're the ones in the very first photo on this thread.
Currently on 205/55/15 Vredstein Sportracs.
Currently on 205/55/15 Vredstein Sportracs.
Well my wife's kiddy wagon ist kaput after 160,000 miles from new (Mk4 Golf TDi 150, cam gone) so she's been using my E39 as the daily bus. This means for the last 3 weeks I've drafted the 944 into daily use as my commuter.
It's far from ideal, the noise is mental, the heater and demister is absolute cack, it doesn't have door handles and can't be locked due to the Lexan window sliders.... but I'm loving it. Done 700 miles now and it is the perfect way to start and end the day.
It's also given me the impetus to start sorting it out as detailed in this thread.
It's had new front discs and pads last week which has sorted the terrible wobble under braking. I've never replaced the discs since I bought it 3 years ago and they've managed about 6000 rally miles (plus another 10k of general honing) so I can't complain really.
I've given the interior a proper bottoming for the first time since LeJog. So much crap left in there after 4 days hard going. Much nicer place to sit now.
It also needed a new top hose after it split. Quite an easy job when you work out you spend 30 seconds removing the AFM and Robert's your mother's brother.
For Christmas I asked wifey for a few little swank bits from Highgate House and they're all on now. Gone full JPS and love it. A few more bits to sort out like spraying up the radiator mesh in matching gold etc but that'll be enough of the Queer Eye for the Straight Porsche.
There are now a few jobs lined up which need attending to as soon as some cash comes in at work that I'm expecting. Rear wheel bearings need replacing, some new dampers and bushes for the rear, speedo cable replacing. Also need to invest in some decent new top mounts as we're just not happy with what's on and it's proving nigh on impossible to get the geo set up correctly despite paying over £200 to RPM to try with what's already there.
At the same time I think I'll buy a set of slight drop front springs and ask Michael to re-index the rear. The sort of rallying I'm now doing doesn't need miles of ground clearance. a 1'' drop from stock combined with some decent skid plating should be bang on.
Lastly will be dealing with the dash. At present it is very, erm, functional. I want to get back to a cleaner look. The general idea will be to relocate the Brantz to the glovebox on a fixed mount and make the glovebox lid removable. I only need it when competing so should work out ok.
That's about it for now, more to come over the next few weeks as cash & time allow.
It's far from ideal, the noise is mental, the heater and demister is absolute cack, it doesn't have door handles and can't be locked due to the Lexan window sliders.... but I'm loving it. Done 700 miles now and it is the perfect way to start and end the day.
It's also given me the impetus to start sorting it out as detailed in this thread.
It's had new front discs and pads last week which has sorted the terrible wobble under braking. I've never replaced the discs since I bought it 3 years ago and they've managed about 6000 rally miles (plus another 10k of general honing) so I can't complain really.
I've given the interior a proper bottoming for the first time since LeJog. So much crap left in there after 4 days hard going. Much nicer place to sit now.
It also needed a new top hose after it split. Quite an easy job when you work out you spend 30 seconds removing the AFM and Robert's your mother's brother.
For Christmas I asked wifey for a few little swank bits from Highgate House and they're all on now. Gone full JPS and love it. A few more bits to sort out like spraying up the radiator mesh in matching gold etc but that'll be enough of the Queer Eye for the Straight Porsche.
There are now a few jobs lined up which need attending to as soon as some cash comes in at work that I'm expecting. Rear wheel bearings need replacing, some new dampers and bushes for the rear, speedo cable replacing. Also need to invest in some decent new top mounts as we're just not happy with what's on and it's proving nigh on impossible to get the geo set up correctly despite paying over £200 to RPM to try with what's already there.
At the same time I think I'll buy a set of slight drop front springs and ask Michael to re-index the rear. The sort of rallying I'm now doing doesn't need miles of ground clearance. a 1'' drop from stock combined with some decent skid plating should be bang on.
Lastly will be dealing with the dash. At present it is very, erm, functional. I want to get back to a cleaner look. The general idea will be to relocate the Brantz to the glovebox on a fixed mount and make the glovebox lid removable. I only need it when competing so should work out ok.
That's about it for now, more to come over the next few weeks as cash & time allow.
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