Panamera Diseasel

[SkinnyPete]

Thank you for sharing your comments MosDef, you put it quite eloquently, something which I lack the patience to do in the face of diesel fanboyism.

Comparing a Panerma diesel to say an S is like comparing a 520D to an M5, they both look the similar but they are worlds apart. If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

[PGM]

OK you've finally convinced me, I'm a poor driver with little ambition for excitement in the driving seat, that is why I like my car.

Thank God you're here else I'd never have known what constitutes a good car, now I know I can go and buy the petrol one, my life will be so much better.

I'll need lessons though so I can learn how to benefit from the driving feel provided by the superior engine and gearbox!?!

[Cobnapint]

SkinnyPete said:

If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

Ever heard of a guy called Chris Harris.....he loved the Panny diesel, and I 'think' he knows a bit about 'feeling' petrol engined cars.

You'll perhaps correct me on that though.

[DeltonaS]

SkinnyPete said:

Comparing a Panerma diesel to say an S is like comparing a 520D to an M5

uhuuhhhhhuuuuu.....

You mean 530d to an 550i.

[Soov535]

SkinnyPete said:

Thank you for sharing your comments MosDef, you put it quite eloquently, something which I lack the patience to do in the face of diesel fanboyism.

Comparing a Panerma diesel to say an S is like comparing a 520D to an M5, they both look the similar but they are worlds apart. If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

Just so you know, I've just got back to the office after a 600 mile round trip to a meeting.

I was pedalling my 535d.


I was not (I can assure you) hanging about. Not a lot was living with me on the motorway between 40 and 100 leptons, including a wide variety of big engined petrol.

I arrived back just now without having broken sweat, and having covered the distance with a refuel, at an average of more than 55mpg.

[SkinnyPete]

Cobnapint said:

SkinnyPete said:

If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

Ever heard of a guy called Chris Harris.....he loved the Panny diesel, and I 'think' he knows a bit about 'feeling' petrol engined cars.

You'll perhaps correct me on that though.

Isn't that the video where he repeatedly bangs on trying to justify it? Any car that needs such justifying automatically deserves ridicule, also 250BHP in a modern day Porsche costing £60k and weighing about 2 tons LOL.

Soov535 said:

SkinnyPete said:

Thank you for sharing your comments MosDef, you put it quite eloquently, something which I lack the patience to do in the face of diesel fanboyism.

Comparing a Panerma diesel to say an S is like comparing a 520D to an M5, they both look the similar but they are worlds apart. If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

Just so you know, I've just got back to the office after a 600 mile round trip to a meeting.

I was pedalling my 535d.


I was not (I can assure you) hanging about. Not a lot was living with me on the motorway between 40 and 100 leptons, including a wide variety of big engined petrol.

I arrived back just now without having broken sweat, and having covered the distance with a refuel, at an average of more than 55mpg.

Pedalling your 535D? Aren't they all automatics? You're more like a vehicle operator and not a driver.

Why do you keep banging on about 40-100 'leptons' (is there a cringe emoji?), you say that as if petrol equivalents are not equipped with a gearbox.

Same again regarding fuel consumption. In the context of performance cars of this value, nobody cares.

I swear you people are like a drunken alcoholic knocking on peoples doors and urging them to drink from an opened bottle of alcohol, as if they themselves are some sort of advertisement.

[ORD]

If someone who drove a genuinely fast car went on about nothing 'staying with them on a motorway', it would be enormously cringeworthy. It's even worse when it's a bloody diesel that is very fast but hardly a supercar!

You know that nobody was racing with you, right?

I agree with Pete about mpg. It's an irrelevance if you are spending 10s of thousands on a new car.

[Soov535]

ORD said:

If someone who drove a genuinely fast car went on about nothing 'staying with them on a motorway', it would be enormously cringeworthy. It's even worse when it's a bloody diesel that is very fast but hardly a supercar!

You know that nobody was racing with you, right?

I agree with Pete about mpg. It's an irrelevance if you are spending 10s of thousands on a new car.

Why the h8, m8?




Look, of course I know that no one was racing me. What counts for me is that the car did the trip without the need to refuel, in absolute comfort, and pretty much drove itself.

It's a tool, for a job. And it does it brilliantly.

And any fool can waste money.

When I had the RS4 that trip would have used 342 litres of fuel at 14mpg at 115pl. £393.

This trip was 87 litres at 115pl. £100.


So that's a fuel saving of £293. Which should buy a nice dinner.

[PGM]

Soov535 said:

And any fool can waste money.

Exactly, a fool and his money are soon parted. Fuel costs are relevant in my case 20k miles per year that I have to pay from my own pocket.

That's over £2000 saved over the year, every year (£8000 for the time I own the car) for me over the v8. I could almost buy a 996 for that!

[David A]

I'll weigh in... I've got a 996 turbo S cab thats been mildly fettled i.e. it goes like a stabbed rat who is under threat of more stabs.

I had a new diesel panny for a long weekend recently and really liked it, nice comfy fast barge. Pushed it a little (bearing in mind it wasn't mine) so I'd have one. Diesel over petrol seems to make sense as fuel ain't cheap.

[nomank]

Soov535 said:

It's a tool, for a job. And it does it brilliantly.

This. I have a diesel Cayenne. Am I missing out on the ultimate drive? Perhaps. Does it still make me smile. Yes. So enjoy

[David A]

SkinnyPete said:

Same again regarding fuel consumption. In the context of performance cars of this value, nobody cares.

2 Maseratis at <12mpg and a 996 Turbo S at <20mpg and about 12-15K miles a year, daily drivers would I have preferred it if they all did 10mpg more - damn right I would but they all seem to convert petrol into a combination of noise and speed.

The Panamera will be another car but will become the daily driver (esp in winter) and as I've got a fast car for fast days I'd rather not burn cash on something where I just want to have a nice commute drive. Blowing anywhere from 50-90K on a car and then another 8-10K over n years for no good reason does mattter. So some of us do care.

[red997]

agreed - between my 4S & turbo there was 1mpg difference average.
26mpg on the turbo
27mpg on the 4s

so far the gT3 has emerged 28mpg

[PGM]

That's pretty awesome on behalf of the GT3, David.

I take it that it's a bit of a beast?

[FrankCayman]

Soov535 said:

SkinnyPete said:

Thank you for sharing your comments MosDef, you put it quite eloquently, something which I lack the patience to do in the face of diesel fanboyism.

Comparing a Panerma diesel to say an S is like comparing a 520D to an M5, they both look the similar but they are worlds apart. If you're the type of person who is attracted to the diesel then you probably wont see/want/feel/gain the benefits of the petrol.

Just so you know, I've just got back to the office after a 600 mile round trip to a meeting.

I was pedalling my 535d.


I was not (I can assure you) hanging about. Not a lot was living with me on the motorway between 40 and 100 leptons, including a wide variety of big engined petrol.

I arrived back just now without having broken sweat, and having covered the distance with a refuel, at an average of more than 55mpg.

Great cars, the 535d's.....but essentially a soulless, large engined 'Rep Wagon' that are driven in the manner you describe all over the UK Motorway network any day of the week.

I had a Panamera 4 out for a day and was blown away by how it handled and just how special it felt....still managing to keep that 'Porsche' DNA. I was unsure of the looks at launch, but fell in love with it after my day as a loan car whilst my Cayman had a service.

I am sure you will find your new Panamera a huge step up in driver enjoyment from the rather sterile environment of a BMW. I would echo other peoples comments re the gear box.....the PDK is fantastic....anything else is like the bad old days of the 'tiptronic'....

Look forward to seeing pictures!

[SkinnyPete]

Soov535 said:

Why the h8, m8?




Look, of course I know that no one was racing me. What counts for me is that the car did the trip without the need to refuel, in absolute comfort, and pretty much drove itself.

It's a tool, for a job. And it does it brilliantly.

And any fool can waste money.

When I had the RS4 that trip would have used 342 litres of fuel at 14mpg at 115pl. £393.

This trip was 87 litres at 115pl. £100.


So that's a fuel saving of £293. Which should buy a nice dinner.

I find it a bit ironic that you call your 535D a tool for that job and then say any fool can waste money, given that the 535D is expensive and superfluous if its just a tool. Why not buy a Mondeo and save all that cash? It'll probably be a better drive too, although that said driving pleasure seems to be low on the list of your priorities so maybe scrap that.

P.S. If your RS4 did 14mpg in similar circumstances then it was faulty.

PGM said:

Soov535 said:

And any fool can waste money.

Exactly, a fool and his money are soon parted. Fuel costs are relevant in my case 20k miles per year that I have to pay from my own pocket.

That's over £2000 saved over the year, every year (£8000 for the time I own the car) for me over the v8. I could almost buy a 996 for that!

I'm amazed you think 20k miles is enough to warrant a diesel over a V8, again especially given Panermas are not cheap. If you can afford to buy one you can afford to run one, unless of course you bought it on finance in which case you may be struggling with the payments then I can see why a couple of quid here and then wouldn't go a miss.

It's not like I'm not putting my money where my mouth is, I do a similar amount of miles to you and in the past 12 months my Cayman has cost me £12,600 although that does include a couple of none maintenance bits and a set of winter wheels).

For getting from A to B that figure may not make financial sense to some but it does not make me a fool if I enjoy every minute of it and financially it does not encroach on any other part of my life so why not.

David A said:

I'll weigh in... I've got a 996 turbo S cab thats been mildly fettled i.e. it goes like a stabbed rat who is under threat of more stabs.

I had a new diesel panny for a long weekend recently and really liked it, nice comfy fast barge. Pushed it a little (bearing in mind it wasn't mine) so I'd have one. Diesel over petrol seems to make sense as fuel ain't cheap.

If fuel isn't cheap why did you buy a 911 turbo?

But anyway regardless of the anyone's opinion or whatever they've talked themselves into preferring, having a diesel engine in a Panamera makes no sense and it really is quite dull.

Edited by SkinnyPete on Wednesday 19th August 19:14

[PGM]

SkinnyPete said:

Soov535 said:

Why the h8, m8?




Look, of course I know that no one was racing me. What counts for me is that the car did the trip without the need to refuel, in absolute comfort, and pretty much drove itself.

It's a tool, for a job. And it does it brilliantly.

And any fool can waste money.

When I had the RS4 that trip would have used 342 litres of fuel at 14mpg at 115pl. £393.

This trip was 87 litres at 115pl. £100.


So that's a fuel saving of £293. Which should buy a nice dinner.

I find it a bit ironic that you call your 535D a tool for that job and then say any fool can waste money, given that the 535D is expensive and superfluous if its just a tool. Why not buy a Mondeo and save all that cash? It'll probably be a better drive too, although that said driving pleasure seems to be low on the list of your priorities so maybe scrap that.

P.S. If your RS4 did 14mpg in similar circumstances then it was faulty.

PGM said:

Soov535 said:

And any fool can waste money.

Exactly, a fool and his money are soon parted. Fuel costs are relevant in my case 20k miles per year that I have to pay from my own pocket.

That's over £2000 saved over the year, every year (£8000 for the time I own the car) for me over the v8. I could almost buy a 996 for that!

I'm amazed you think 20k miles is enough to warrant a diesel over a V8, again especially given Panermas are not cheap. If you can afford to buy one you can afford to run one, unless of course you bought it on finance in which case you may be struggling with the payments then I can see why a couple of quid here and then wouldn't go a miss.

You really have overstepped the mark now, £2k a year is not a couple of quid here and there, I dont struggle to afford the car or anything else I choose to own, it proves you're just in this thread for controversy and egocentric purposes.

To turn the tables and see how you taste your medicine, a suggestion may be that you could get a nicer house if you didn't waste your money on a Cayman or any other sports car and its petrol habit? Mind you, buying a house on finance isn't easy luckily not something I need to concern myself over.

Alternatively, you may be happy with your personal choice, whereas I would not be in the same circumstances.

There are choices we all have and make different decisions based upon our own tastes, please show a modicum of respect if you're capable.


Oh, and I haven't talked myself into preferring the car, I'm intelligent enough to know whether I like something or otherwise and whether it suits my purposes.My Spaniel would destroy a Cayman in about 5 minutes flat!

Edited by PGM on Wednesday 19th August 19:34

[Mosdef]

SkinnyPete said:

But anyway regardless of the anyone's opinion or whatever they've talked themselves into preferring, having a diesel engine in a Panamera makes no sense and it really is quite dull.

Edited by SkinnyPete on Wednesday 19th August 19:14

I completely agree with this. The difference in running costs between a Panamera diesel and a petrol Panamera are really not that great - particularly in view of the price of the car - and I don't think the residuals on the Panamera diesel are amazing either. The petrol engined cars are so much more interesting to drive - I really don't understand why anyone would buy the diesel if they've driven the petrol.

The diesel Panamera I borrowed for the weekend had as much driver appeal as a 7 series or an A8, which I suspect was what was intended at the outset. I can understand why purchasers would want something more interesting than a 7 series, A8 etc, and the Porsche is definitely more distinctive, but It didn't have any typical Porsche qualities in my view and had nothing really going for it other than the badge and cabin.

The Cayenne V8 diesel I did 3-4k miles in was fantastic and had much more going for it. The drivetrain was infinitely better as a package and the handling was very impressive. Shame they can't fit it in the Panamera, would have been a great combo.

Edited by Mosdef on Wednesday 19th August 20:04

[SkinnyPete]

PGM said:

You really have overstepped the mark now, £2k a year is not a couple of quid here and there, I dont struggle to afford the car or anything else I choose to own, it proves you're just in this thread for controversy and egocentric purposes.

To turn the tables and see how you taste your medicine, a suggestion may be that you could get a nicer house if you didn't waste your money on a Cayman or any other sports car and its petrol habit? Mind you, buying a house on finance isn't easy luckily not something I need to concern myself over.

Alternatively, you may be happy with your personal choice, whereas I would not be in the same circumstances.

There are choices we all have and make different decisions based upon our own tastes, please show a modicum of respect if you're capable.


Oh, and I haven't talked myself into preferring the car, I'm intelligent enough to know whether I like something or otherwise and whether it suits my purposes.My Spaniel would destroy a Cayman in about 5 minutes flat!

£2k is loose change to someone with a £65k, most would think.

To get a better house would require I spend more money, but to get a better Panamera you wouldn't have to spend an extra penny.

That ultimately is my point, the diesel costs more and is quite crap. The petrol Panameras are wonderful things.

No-one was suggesting you buy a Cayman as an alternative to a Panamera by the way, which is what your last sentence suggested.

Apologies if I have offended your credit rating.

[ORD]

£2k a year for something you don't really want is a lot of money. If the petrol engines were exquisite, then I would pay it. But their fairly standard turbo lumps, aren't they? Not much different to a diesel.