I test drove a 944 today, but want to talk to an expert

[hartlandcarr]

I test drove a 944 S2 today, which I am considering buying. I read up plenty on them, but having not driven any other examples I can't be sure how it compares, and whether the noises it made were normal or 'expensive' noises.

I would dearly love to be able to speak to a knowledgeable person this very evening (because I have until 10am tomorrow to make up my mind) and discuss some things.

Are you that person? Could you help me?

[mollytherocker]

Thats a big ask late on a Saturday night. You should never rush into Porsche ownership like this.

Ask any specifics on here if you like. But if you dont know your stuff about the 944S2 then dont risk it.

[hartlandcarr]

You're right of course, but there are only so many of them about, especially in the right spec/colour/condition/price for what I'm looking for. I've studied guides carefully (e.g. http://philipraby.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-buyers-guid... and did my best to check out all the obvious areas. It would appear to be a very original car in pretty decent shape.

The things that specifically concerned me were:

- a groan from the steering in very low-speed manoeuvring. Presumably one of the many issues that can haunt power steering hydraulics.

- frankly, it didn't seem quite as fast as I had expected (not appreciably quicker than my turbo diesel Skoda Octavia estate, though I suppose my Octavia does have a great whoosh of low-down torque from the turbo) though it was very smooth and comfortable. Certainly no 'shove in the back' acceleration. Maybe there's something not quite right in the engine that's holding it back? Or maybe my expectations weren't quite set right.

- Oil pressure gauge showed 5 throughout the test drive: both when idle and when revving. Maybe this indicates great oil pressure and an engine in good nick, but I read that I would expect 2.5 at idle when cold (and it did start from cold).

Any thoughts on this late Saturday night are very much appreciated :-)

[williamp]

whats the hurry? Spend a few hundred on a proper inspection could save you thousands in the first year alone. Even an MOT can reveal a lot about the car. Regardless of when it was last done.

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history
This is also useful, as it shows the mot history for the vehicle

[tr7v8]

hartlandcarr said:

You're right of course, but there are only so many of them about, especially in the right spec/colour/condition/price for what I'm looking for. I've studied guides carefully (e.g. http://philipraby.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-buyers-guid... and did my best to check out all the obvious areas. It would appear to be a very original car in pretty decent shape.

The things that specifically concerned me were:

- a groan from the steering in very low-speed manoeuvring. Presumably one of the many issues that can haunt power steering hydraulics.

- frankly, it didn't seem quite as fast as I had expected (not appreciably quicker than my turbo diesel Skoda Octavia estate, though I suppose my Octavia does have a great whoosh of low-down torque from the turbo) though it was very smooth and comfortable. Certainly no 'shove in the back' acceleration. Maybe there's something not quite right in the engine that's holding it back? Or maybe my expectations weren't quite set right.

- Oil pressure gauge showed 5 throughout the test drive: both when idle and when revving. Maybe this indicates great oil pressure and an engine in good nick, but I read that I would expect 2.5 at idle when cold (and it did start from cold).

Any thoughts on this late Saturday night are very much appreciated :-)

TBH the power steering all make noises, sometimes a fluid change will quieten it.
There won't be a shove in the back, but it should feel reasonably quick & smooth.
Did the gauge indicate 5 with the engine switched on but not running? If it did the sender is probably knackered. The gauges aren't the most accurate anyway.

Focus on the following, are the sills & rear suspension mounts solid, no rust?
When did it last have cam & balance belt & possibly water pump changed. Belts are 4 years or 45K max. Water pumps mean stripping all the belts off & are pretty expensive.
Has it ever had the cam chain & tensioners changed? This isn't on the Porsche service schedule & if the chain stretches it knackers the camshafts. Very expensive & if the chain breaks it generally trashes at least the head & frequently the block.
Has it had a clutch, not cheap & lots of labour to do.

Worth going to www.tipec.net where there is a buying guide I wrote a few years ago & lots of people running & spannering them.

[plenty]

Steering groan is 100% normal on these cars and nothing to worry about.

As for perceived punch - a 25 year-old NA motor cannot be compared with a modern TD. Keep the revs up and the 944 S2 still offers a respectable lick of speed, but it offers nothing like the torque.

The oil gauge sounds dodgy - it should not read 5 at idle.

[blade7]

Put it into a Porsche indy for an hour or so check over, should only cost around £100. Most of the "expert" inspectors will have disclaimers so why pay hundreds ? add an HPI check and check the MOT history too.

[fire3500]

tr7v8 said:

TBH the power steering all make noises, sometimes a fluid change will quieten it.
There won't be a shove in the back, but it should feel reasonably quick & smooth.
Did the gauge indicate 5 with the engine switched on but not running? If it did the sender is probably knackered. The gauges aren't the most accurate anyway.

Focus on the following, are the sills & rear suspension mounts solid, no rust?
When did it last have cam & balance belt & possibly water pump changed. Belts are 4 years or 45K max. Water pumps mean stripping all the belts off & are pretty expensive.
Has it ever had the cam chain & tensioners changed? This isn't on the Porsche service schedule & if the chain stretches it knackers the camshafts. Very expensive & if the chain breaks it generally trashes at least the head & frequently the block.
Has it had a clutch, not cheap & lots of labour to do.

Worth going to www.tipec.net where there is a buying guide I wrote a few years ago & lots of people running & spannering them.

This man knows his onions, TR7V8 is very knowledgeable and a bit of a 944 legend, this is dependable advice. I'd add that the torque tube will likely be a bit noisy and if it's done miles then the gearshift linkage might seem sloppy, the change is quite ponderous even if in good nick. The S2 is more of a lazy autobahn / motorway car, I've owned an S2 cab and my early car and prefer by far the less powerful and more nimble early 2.5 with the narrower track rear end and square dash. On the subject of dashboards, they crack... horribly, this is common and quite expensive to remedy. Also check the heating system as the later dashboards have an electronic pseudo climate control that can malfunction, the digital clock is a common failure and along with the previously mentioned oil pressure sender issue the odometer drive gear can fail, so if buying on mileage check that the ODO is actually working!

Seats are often shabby, and some of the materials for re-trimming are available from Germany, good interior counts for a lot.

Does it sit right on the road, does the boot / interior / under-bonnet look commensurate with the age and miles and does it look cherished? Does it start, stop and go round corners OK? The 944 is a balanced car and should feel solid and planted on the road, it's sensitive to tyre pressures and should have good quality matching tyres at every corner. What options have been fitted from the factory? Check the boot under the carpet at either side there is a storage compartment / cubby that extends down to behind the rear wheel. Is it dry in there and is there rust at the bottom? That's expensive to put right, like the sills, front wing leading and trailing edges and rear leading lower arches. Check the headlights pop up OK and retract. Check that the headlight switch illuminates (there's a bulb in there that blows). Instrument panel bulbs are st and a pain to improve (you can, it's laborious but worth it - again square dash cars are better), check the panel gaps... headlight, bonnet, wings, doors. Is the protector flap present in the fuel filler? Does the under bonnet lamp come on with side lights? Do the electric windows work with the ignition off and the doors open? Does the luggage area blind retract fully and is it even present? If it's a late car does it have split rear seat?

Harking back to the cam chain tensioner, there's also a slipper pad under the cam cover that needs changing periodically (can't remember - only just woken up... the interval escapes me) if it's white then it's OK, if it's yellow then it is old and needs changing as it might break up and then you're into £££s).

944s are great. The whole poor-mans-Porsche thing is a bum steer. They're a beautifully made and elegant car with a lot going for them. They feel special and are being increasingly appreciated. In many ways mine is better than my 997, and I'd say that in many circumstances the confidence the '44 gives me makes me faster point-to-point on Lincolnshire backroads than I am in the 997. The 997 *is* faster, but the 944 is more fun. A later S2 is a blunted version thereof.

So there you go, don't buy in haste? I bought my '84 2.5 from Glasgow sight-unseen for £1,000 in 2012... I've spent about £3,000 on it so far, and realistically have another £3,000 to go to get it up to scratch (want a full repaint, and it still needs a new radiator and a handful of bushes and seals). These were expensive cars new, and have often been poorly maintained as they became cheap old hacks. Buy one that's been cherished and really loved / respected. Mine had been loved by all of its owners, and it showed... it still needed sills and wing repairs and when I'd done that a valve spring retainer cracked and I needed a top-end rebuild, and a suspension overhaul. It is a keeper though and so it gets the love.

[blueg33]

Speak to Lee st Cotswold Porsche Specislists, they are independent and Lee knows all about 944's. He is on PH but I can't remember his user name.

His business is based a few miles from me but he lives in the same village. Generally there are three or four 944's on his drive and more at work.

[LarJammer]

Where are you based? Where is the car?

[blade7]

Some good advice on this thread but these are 25+ year old cars and long lists of what to look out for can lead to unrealistic expectations unless you are paying top money. Sure make sure the car isn't a money pit or rotten but don't expect the world for a few grand. I'd expect a straight S2 to be £7-10k in the present market.

Edited by blade7 on Sunday 3rd April 12:55

[hartlandcarr]

Thanks all for your very useful input! I'd have been thanking you earlier and continuing the conversation this morning, but unfortunately the forums were locked down for all new users "due to abuse", so I was literally not able to.

Well, more fool me, but I have bought the car. For around the £7k mark I wasn't expecting perfection from a 25 year old car. I get the impression you need to spend £10k or more for a really sweet example, but it's original and seems very straight. It drove nicely - smooth and comfortable. One tiny bit of rust bubble on what look like untouched, original sills. The all-critical belts etc. were changed within the last 12,000 miles BUT it was 11 years ago because the car has been sitting mostly idle (indoors) for a lot of the intervening time. The first thing I will do is take it to my local Porsche specialist (JAZ, St Albans) and get that sorted out. Those rubber belts are pretty elderly and I fear for them! It's had a new clutch within last 15,000 miles and the clutch seemed entirely fine when driving. Interior carpets all immaculate, not the slightest traces of rust in the boot or footwells. History folder is all in good order, in plastic pockets, suggesting careful owner that takes some pride.

Here begins the adventure! I'm expecting it to involve spending money.

[blade7]

Despite what reviewers may say the S2 will always play 2nd fiddle to the turbo, Good news if you fancy an S2 as prices reflect this. Good luck OP and stick up some pics.

[edh]

Sound a nice car. Belts (and water pump) asap.

Get a camera inside the sills for a good look - and then get some corrosion protection in there..

Ignore Mr Blade.. the S2 is far superior even better, you pay less for the privilege

[blade7]

Carry a spare can of oil and some sawdust OP, the S2 has been known to spit it out all over the road .

[hartlandcarr]

Thanks again for the advice. I intend to blog about the whole experience at http://justthesam.com.

Here are a couple of exterior pics. I'm expecting somebody to now pipe up saying that this specific car is a notorious basket case.

[edh]

blade7 said:

Carry a spare can of oil and some sawdust OP, the S2 has been known to spit it out all over the road .

Good thing the 944 turbo doesn't share the same OPRV then.... oh wait...
Mind you, it's usually a rod through the block that leads to rapid oil loss in a turbo

[Richair]

That looks nice! If it's straight and rust free at that price you shouldn't go too far wrong... It sounds like you've gone in with your eyes open though, which you need to as they're getting old now. Perfect balance of classic status vs usability and performance though IMO (that's S2's and Turbos).

Welcome to the club

[blade7]

edh said:

it's usually a rod through the block that leads to rapid oil loss in a turbo

That would be a good excuse to build up a turbo engine with twice the output of an S2 .

[edh]

blade7 said:

edh said:

it's usually a rod through the block that leads to rapid oil loss in a turbo

That would be a good excuse to build up a turbo engine with twice the output of an S2 .

Good idea - I know where you can lay your hands on on a 3.0 block...