More hype and plain silliness
Discussion
g7jhp said:
IMI A said:
P50 said:
IMI A said:
You being ironic? looks a nice car to be fair.
60k?! oh come on...
Original non painted cars like yours are rarer than unicorn tears
Seriously these cars were £15k in 2010. They may have hit a high in 2014, but they're not £60k's worth.
They have an equally good chance of dropping back to a more reasonable level as some of the prices been asked are crazy. Especially for high mileage SC's at £34k+
Only the best mint cars are worth decent money. Cars needing work always need quite a bit of money to get them up to standard. As a drive they're a very acquired taste (I love 3.2's) but they are too raw for many.
On a serious note I don't feel they are agricultural - perhaps more of an "event" is a better description. My 3.2C is a far more precise drive than my 964 or 997. Russ at JZM took my timewarp 964 for a drive today as we went to see a rather special 964 he has coming in soon and he felt the 964 drove like a new car. I kept quiet when Russ paid my 964 a compliment but the only thought that went through my mind was that my 3.2C is a better drive. I think the previous owner of my 3.2C was a real enthusiast and its been set up really well. In particular the unassisted steering, factory short shift and clutch inter action as an experience on my particular 3.2C are head and shoulders above my 964.
IMI A said:
I did say "may"
On a serious note I don't feel they are agricultural - perhaps more of an "event" is a better description. My 3.2C is a far more precise drive than my 964 or 997. Russ at JZM took my timewarp 964 for a drive today as we went to see a rather special 964 he has coming in soon and he felt the 964 drove like a new car. I kept quiet when Russ paid my 964 a compliment but the only thought that went through my mind was that my 3.2C is a better drive. I think the previous owner of my 3.2C was a real enthusiast and its been set up really well. In particular the unassisted steering, factory short shift and clutch inter action as an experience on my particular 3.2C are head and shoulders above my 964.
Putting it into context I've had two 3.2 Carrera, I swapped my first for a 993 C4 and immediately missed the rawer feel. When I saw they are more agricultural it in context to newer modern day cars which are easy to jump in and drive.On a serious note I don't feel they are agricultural - perhaps more of an "event" is a better description. My 3.2C is a far more precise drive than my 964 or 997. Russ at JZM took my timewarp 964 for a drive today as we went to see a rather special 964 he has coming in soon and he felt the 964 drove like a new car. I kept quiet when Russ paid my 964 a compliment but the only thought that went through my mind was that my 3.2C is a better drive. I think the previous owner of my 3.2C was a real enthusiast and its been set up really well. In particular the unassisted steering, factory short shift and clutch inter action as an experience on my particular 3.2C are head and shoulders above my 964.
When I got my second 3.2 Carrera I actually had it all new suspension and set-up by JZM and a number of people commented on how it was one of the nicest 3.2's they'd driven including Steve Winter at Jaz (who used to service it for me). They are heavier in both steering and brakes and when well set-up are a pleasure but I did go on to use it as a daily drive for 7 years in all weathers.
On a couple of occasions friends drove my 3.2 Carrera they we're surprised by the effort it took to drive.
g7jhp said:
Putting it into context I've had two 3.2 Carrera, I swapped my first for a 993 C4 and immediately missed the rawer feel. When I saw they are more agricultural it in context to newer modern day cars which are easy to jump in and drive.
When I got my second 3.2 Carrera I actually had it all new suspension and set-up by JZM and a number of people commented on how it was one of the nicest 3.2's they'd driven including Steve Winter at Jaz (who used to service it for me). They are heavier in both steering and brakes and when well set-up are a pleasure but I did go on to use it as a daily drive for 7 years in all weathers.
On a couple of occasions friends drove my 3.2 Carrera they we're surprised by the effort it took to drive.
Cars are like politics. Everyone has their own opinion.When I got my second 3.2 Carrera I actually had it all new suspension and set-up by JZM and a number of people commented on how it was one of the nicest 3.2's they'd driven including Steve Winter at Jaz (who used to service it for me). They are heavier in both steering and brakes and when well set-up are a pleasure but I did go on to use it as a daily drive for 7 years in all weathers.
On a couple of occasions friends drove my 3.2 Carrera they we're surprised by the effort it took to drive.
Why is the S1 E type worth so much? because the purists will pay for the undiluted concept. The first. The best.
The Mk1 GTI is another great that evolution knocked the raw precise corners off.
Even the Fiat 500 lost a bit of its cheeky charm with safety back lights and non suicide doors.
You either love the original 911 and thus appreciate that the G50 was the very zenith of the original concept or you think its an agricultural horrid lethal car with little in the way of creature comforts.
My last daily driver 911 was in '98. It was a '88 G50 coupe. I had nothing to gauge it to as the 996 had just been released. The 964's were bad news through dropping oil and the 993's were simply new cars.
16 years later it's all plain to see. The 996 is/was a disaster. Yes Porsche sold them in their thousands but the very essence of air cooled Porsche had gone.
Save the RS/GT models the post '98 911 is like any other eurobox. I freely admit I'm a luddite and utterly adore the rawness of the G50. What's not to like?! They are finely honed German hewn from granite instrument of the old school. From the smell of the interior to the whine of the fan. The way the engine vibrates the whole car at idle. That iconic dash. The superlative build quality. The styling. The edgy handling and sublime steering feedback. The Getrag 'box is the cherry on the top of a 5 tier wedding cake!
I generally have no enthusiasm for post '89 911's. It's a free country after all!
Now are the prices of the og 911 going up through purists appreciating what they are?
Or is it speculators getting into some kind of ponzi/pyramid scheme as .5% interest rates mean mr "i've got a few quid" needs somewhere to put it?!
I've seen this hyped market before and I know what the end result was....
Edited by P50 on Friday 21st November 04:54
P50 said:
Cars are like politics. Everyone has their own opinion.
Why is the S1 E type worth so much? because the purists will pay for the undiluted concept. The first. The best.
The Mk1 GTI is another great that evolution knocked the raw precise corners off.
Even the Fiat 500 lost a bit of its cheeky charm with safety back lights and non suicide doors.
You either love the original 911 and thus appreciate that the G50 was the very zenith of the original concept or you think its an agricultural horrid lethal car with little in the way of creature comforts.
My last daily driver 911 was in '98. It was a '88 G50 coupe. I had nothing to gauge it to as the 996 had just been released. The 964's were bad news through dropping oil and the 993's were simply new cars.
16 years later it's all plain to see. The 996 is/was a disaster. Yes Porsche sold them in their thousands but the very essence of air cooled Porsche had gone.
Save the RS/GT models the post '98 911 is like any other eurobox. I freely admit I'm a luddite and utterly adore the rawness of the G50. What's not to like?! They are finely honed German hewn from granite instrument of the old school. From the smell of the interior to the whine of the fan. The way the engine vibrates the whole car at idle. That iconic dash. The superlative build quality. The styling. The edgy handling and sublime steering feedback. The Getrag 'box is the cherry on the top of a 5 tier wedding cake!
I generally have no enthusiasm for post '89 911's. It's a free country after all!
Now are the prices of the og 911 going up through purists appreciating what they are?
Or is it speculators getting into some kind of ponzi/pyramid scheme as .5% interest rates mean mr "i've got a few quid" needs somewhere to put it?!
I've seen this hyped market before and I know what the end result was....
P50 I agree with many of your points.Why is the S1 E type worth so much? because the purists will pay for the undiluted concept. The first. The best.
The Mk1 GTI is another great that evolution knocked the raw precise corners off.
Even the Fiat 500 lost a bit of its cheeky charm with safety back lights and non suicide doors.
You either love the original 911 and thus appreciate that the G50 was the very zenith of the original concept or you think its an agricultural horrid lethal car with little in the way of creature comforts.
My last daily driver 911 was in '98. It was a '88 G50 coupe. I had nothing to gauge it to as the 996 had just been released. The 964's were bad news through dropping oil and the 993's were simply new cars.
16 years later it's all plain to see. The 996 is/was a disaster. Yes Porsche sold them in their thousands but the very essence of air cooled Porsche had gone.
Save the RS/GT models the post '98 911 is like any other eurobox. I freely admit I'm a luddite and utterly adore the rawness of the G50. What's not to like?! They are finely honed German hewn from granite instrument of the old school. From the smell of the interior to the whine of the fan. The way the engine vibrates the whole car at idle. That iconic dash. The superlative build quality. The styling. The edgy handling and sublime steering feedback. The Getrag 'box is the cherry on the top of a 5 tier wedding cake!
I generally have no enthusiasm for post '89 911's. It's a free country after all!
Now are the prices of the og 911 going up through purists appreciating what they are?
Or is it speculators getting into some kind of ponzi/pyramid scheme as .5% interest rates mean mr "i've got a few quid" needs somewhere to put it?!
I've seen this hyped market before and I know what the end result was....
Edited by P50 on Friday 21st November 04:54
I love the G50 3.2 and the raw agricultural feel, although I wouldn't use it as my only daily again.
I also appreciate my 996 turbo and other 911 derivatives for what they do so well.
The SC and 964 were relatively unloved in the not so distant past, I believe the 996 will actually come to be appreciated in years to come - a standard manual 996.2 C2 coupe.
g7jhp said:
P50 I agree with many of your points.
I love the G50 3.2 and the raw agricultural feel, although I wouldn't use it as my only daily again.
I also appreciate my 996 turbo and other 911 derivatives for what they do so well.
The SC and 964 were relatively unloved in the not so distant past, I believe the 996 will actually come to be appreciated in years to come - a standard manual 996.2 C2 coupe.
Stranger things have happened.I love the G50 3.2 and the raw agricultural feel, although I wouldn't use it as my only daily again.
I also appreciate my 996 turbo and other 911 derivatives for what they do so well.
The SC and 964 were relatively unloved in the not so distant past, I believe the 996 will actually come to be appreciated in years to come - a standard manual 996.2 C2 coupe.
The 996 is still a 911 IMS malarky and all.
Time will tell but I concede they're value...
I personally wouldn't buy anything at today's prices if it is to be a long term investment only.
2 years ago I stopped by Fernhurst TVR on the way back from a Goodwood Sunday breakfast meet. There was a red 911 3.2 with 50k miles. It was up for £20k and had been there a few weeks/months.
Prices will go back down as fast as they came up (in my opinion).
At £80k, you could have a 997 GT3, a 993 Turbo, Ferrari 550 etc. These are all better places for your money. I think 930's have a long way to go also in the short term.
2 years ago I stopped by Fernhurst TVR on the way back from a Goodwood Sunday breakfast meet. There was a red 911 3.2 with 50k miles. It was up for £20k and had been there a few weeks/months.
Prices will go back down as fast as they came up (in my opinion).
At £80k, you could have a 997 GT3, a 993 Turbo, Ferrari 550 etc. These are all better places for your money. I think 930's have a long way to go also in the short term.
fastgerman said:
I personally wouldn't buy anything at today's prices if it is to be a long term investment only.
2 years ago I stopped by Fernhurst TVR on the way back from a Goodwood Sunday breakfast meet. There was a red 911 3.2 with 50k miles. It was up for £20k and had been there a few weeks/months.
Prices will go back down as fast as they came up (in my opinion).
At £80k, you could have a 997 GT3, a 993 Turbo, Ferrari 550 etc. These are all better places for your money. I think 930's have a long way to go also in the short term.
I agree unless you're investing in low production cars like 2.7RS or 4.0 RS etc you'd be mad to buy these cars as investment only. Whilst I agree that 3.2 you mention if it has similar mileage and is a clean car with no rust and good provenance would be bought by dealers today for £50k. 150% tax free return over two years is not bad for some lucky sod who bought it for £20k! Food for thought....2 years ago I stopped by Fernhurst TVR on the way back from a Goodwood Sunday breakfast meet. There was a red 911 3.2 with 50k miles. It was up for £20k and had been there a few weeks/months.
Prices will go back down as fast as they came up (in my opinion).
At £80k, you could have a 997 GT3, a 993 Turbo, Ferrari 550 etc. These are all better places for your money. I think 930's have a long way to go also in the short term.
Crimp said:
Still about twice what it would have been a couple of years ago!dugsud said:
Crimp said:
Still about twice what it would have been a couple of years ago!I wouldn't give 22k for it personally
Crimp said:
Looks like good value on the face of it.But we dont know, it could be rot box that needs an engine refresh.
The devil is in the detail.
mudy said:
it's done 177,000 miles - I know that the uk is overly obsessed with mileage but that's big miles - you'd have paid 12,000 for that 4 years ago
The mileage wouldnt put me off. I wouldnt blink.What matters is the conditon, mechanicaly, bodily and overall.
If its good, its a bargain. If.
mollytherocker said:
mudy said:
it's done 177,000 miles - I know that the uk is overly obsessed with mileage but that's big miles - you'd have paid 12,000 for that 4 years ago
The mileage wouldnt put me off. I wouldnt blink.What matters is the conditon, mechanicaly, bodily and overall.
If its good, its a bargain. If.
In reality it's a 177k mile 3.2 Carrera coupe with a 915 box (nothing wrong with a 915, but it's not the sort after G50 box).
If the car is rust free it's a big plus, but you'd have to factor in a rebuild at some point and then there will probably be a host of other 'smaller' jobs - suspension refresh, clutch, oil pipes, gerabox which from experince can soon swallow upwards of £5k+.
When you add these on to the asking price it doesn't seem such a bargain. In the end you'll have a high mileage 3.2 Carrera for the best part of £30k+.
g7jhp said:
I think this is part of the madness. Because mint cars are being touted at late £30k's (we'll ignore the over £60k rebuilds) suddenly anything at circa £20k looks good value.
In reality it's a 177k mile 3.2 Carrera coupe with a 915 box (nothing wrong with a 915, but it's not the sort after G50 box).
If the car is rust free it's a big plus, but you'd have to factor in a rebuild at some point and then there will probably be a host of other 'smaller' jobs - suspension refresh, clutch, oil pipes, gerabox which from experince can soon swallow upwards of £5k+.
When you add these on to the asking price it doesn't seem such a bargain. In the end you'll have a high mileage 3.2 Carrera for the best part of £30k+.
Correct.In reality it's a 177k mile 3.2 Carrera coupe with a 915 box (nothing wrong with a 915, but it's not the sort after G50 box).
If the car is rust free it's a big plus, but you'd have to factor in a rebuild at some point and then there will probably be a host of other 'smaller' jobs - suspension refresh, clutch, oil pipes, gerabox which from experince can soon swallow upwards of £5k+.
When you add these on to the asking price it doesn't seem such a bargain. In the end you'll have a high mileage 3.2 Carrera for the best part of £30k+.
You may be lucky but it's been round the world 7 times and will never be like a low miler cherished example.
But.
The entire market classic car wise has changed. £50k Healey 3000's, 18k Froegyes, 30k Cooper S's, 50k Mk1 Lotus Cortina, 25K Alfa Bertone Coupes, 75k 308GTB's, £25k Messerschmitt's etc etc
I fondly remember when stuff was cheap.
It all seems to have gone mad and the lesser condition stuff will follow commensurate. But they are not making anymore of this old junk and that's a fact.
After 1970 it all went a bit breasts north and cars got boring and anodyne.
Save the oddities like the torsion bar 911, the R107 SL, the 2CV, Mini etc etc which kept on going the general balance is a bit boring.
hunter 66 said:
The only problem is , as with all investments when the music stops only what is a true collectable will stay that way ........
The rest will go back to being old cars
But whats a true collectable? If you're talking about 2.7RS etc etc they're all Unicorns and unobtainium. Is a 30k mile 911 3.2C Coupe a collectible? Is a 20,000 mile 964 C2 a collectable? Or are only 964 RS and 3.2C Clubsports collectable? I personally would say they're all collectable but prices will vary mainly on number of cars built and whether the car is eligible for historic racing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. By way of example I do chuckle when I see 964 Turbo for £200k or 930 G50 for £100k from a driving perspective (both models sold recently at auction for this sort of money). They may be collectable and as rare as hens teeth in 964 Turbo 3.6 guise but they're pretty average to drive compared to a bog standard 3.2C or 964 C2. Makes the £50k ceiling look low (my view for max value for ultra low miles 3.2C or 964 C2).The rest will go back to being old cars
IMI A said:
But whats a true collectable? If you're talking about 2.7RS etc etc they're all Unicorns and unobtainium. Is a 30k mile 911 3.2C Coupe a collectible? Is a 20,000 mile 964 C2 a collectable? Or are only 964 RS and 3.2C Clubsports collectable? I personally would say they're all collectable but prices will vary mainly on number of cars built and whether the car is eligible for historic racing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. By way of example I do chuckle when I see 964 Turbo for £200k or 930 G50 for £100k from a driving perspective (both models sold recently at auction for this sort of money). They may be collectable and as rare as hens teeth in 964 Turbo 3.6 guise but they're pretty average to drive compared to a bog standard 3.2C or 964 C2. Makes the £50k ceiling look low (my view for max value for ultra low miles 3.2C or 964 C2).
I do wonder if it will crash. One thing that I know is that humans never learn and are doomed to repeat themselves.I remember 1989 930 Turbo orders being sold for thousands over list as they were purported to be the last turbo. Now I see 997 Gen II GT3 RS making stupid money and ponder as to what will happen.
You can park a G50 up for a nominal amount a year. A '7 '3RS will cost fortunes to tax, insure, service etc for the 500 miles they will cover P.A.
The simple formula is buy what you like because if it all falls out of bed you will have something you enjoy!
But from where I'm sitting I think prices will stay firm for nice stuff. Porridge like 70's Leyland and Ford (non RS) will do little.
Gassing Station | Porsche Classics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff