More hype and plain silliness

[P50]

With those miles it's not a collectors machine.

Just a leggy 915 3.2.

Priced right.

[P50]

g7jhp said:

I think this is part of the madness. Because mint cars are being touted at late £30k's (we'll ignore the over £60k rebuilds) suddenly anything at circa £20k looks good value.

In reality it's a 177k mile 3.2 Carrera coupe with a 915 box (nothing wrong with a 915, but it's not the sort after G50 box).

If the car is rust free it's a big plus, but you'd have to factor in a rebuild at some point and then there will probably be a host of other 'smaller' jobs - suspension refresh, clutch, oil pipes, gerabox which from experince can soon swallow upwards of £5k+.

When you add these on to the asking price it doesn't seem such a bargain. In the end you'll have a high mileage 3.2 Carrera for the best part of £30k+.

Correct.

You may be lucky but it's been round the world 7 times and will never be like a low miler cherished example.

But.

The entire market classic car wise has changed. £50k Healey 3000's, 18k Froegyes, 30k Cooper S's, 50k Mk1 Lotus Cortina, 25K Alfa Bertone Coupes, 75k 308GTB's, £25k Messerschmitt's etc etc

I fondly remember when stuff was cheap.

It all seems to have gone mad and the lesser condition stuff will follow commensurate. But they are not making anymore of this old junk and that's a fact.

After 1970 it all went a bit breasts north and cars got boring and anodyne.

Save the oddities like the torsion bar 911, the R107 SL, the 2CV, Mini etc etc which kept on going the general balance is a bit boring.

[P50]

IMI A said:

But whats a true collectable? If you're talking about 2.7RS etc etc they're all Unicorns and unobtainium. Is a 30k mile 911 3.2C Coupe a collectible? Is a 20,000 mile 964 C2 a collectable? Or are only 964 RS and 3.2C Clubsports collectable? I personally would say they're all collectable but prices will vary mainly on number of cars built and whether the car is eligible for historic racing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. By way of example I do chuckle when I see 964 Turbo for £200k or 930 G50 for £100k from a driving perspective (both models sold recently at auction for this sort of money). They may be collectable and as rare as hens teeth in 964 Turbo 3.6 guise but they're pretty average to drive compared to a bog standard 3.2C or 964 C2. Makes the £50k ceiling look low (my view for max value for ultra low miles 3.2C or 964 C2).

I do wonder if it will crash. One thing that I know is that humans never learn and are doomed to repeat themselves.

I remember 1989 930 Turbo orders being sold for thousands over list as they were purported to be the last turbo. Now I see 997 Gen II GT3 RS making stupid money and ponder as to what will happen.

You can park a G50 up for a nominal amount a year. A '7 '3RS will cost fortunes to tax, insure, service etc for the 500 miles they will cover P.A.

The simple formula is buy what you like because if it all falls out of bed you will have something you enjoy!

But from where I'm sitting I think prices will stay firm for nice stuff. Porridge like 70's Leyland and Ford (non RS) will do little.

[P50]

IMI A said:

IMI A said:

So whats this worth PH massive?



Sales pitch from Hexagon below

1988 Porsche 1988 Commemorative Edition 911 - RHD
Rare 1988 Commemorative Edition to celebrate 250,000 Porsche 911 models made.?
1 of 50 RHD (Only 30 Coupes)
?
Diamond Blue Metallic with colour coded 16"
Fuchs wheels
Silver blue "ruffle" finish leather seats with Ferry Porsche signature on headrests?
Silver blue silk velour carpet in coupe as well as under front hood
Carrera badge delete?Electric sunroof?Short shift
25,900 miles from new
Full Porsche OPC History
Toolkit/Jack etc.
Original Blaupunkt Toronto
Concours winning car – 2014 ‘Best Porsche’ for the Porsche Club annual event

Unexpectedly available – this is a rare opportunity - not to be missed.






IMO looks lovely if a bit kitsch/naff on ruffle leather and signature on headrests but apart from that looks a minter to my eye

Called them today. £92,000 It belongs to one of the guys there complimented him and wished him luck with the sale but not for me at that money.

Not to be missed?

Of course if you happen to miss this cheeky little bargain then how would you be able to sleep?!!

These jokers just sum up my title of the thread.

I would feel quite ill if I had 92 grand in this common garden Porsche miles or not.

[P50]

IMI A said:

P50 said:

IMI A said:

IMI A said:

So whats this worth PH massive?



Sales pitch from Hexagon below

1988 Porsche 1988 Commemorative Edition 911 - RHD
Rare 1988 Commemorative Edition to celebrate 250,000 Porsche 911 models made.?
1 of 50 RHD (Only 30 Coupes)
?
Diamond Blue Metallic with colour coded 16"
Fuchs wheels
Silver blue "ruffle" finish leather seats with Ferry Porsche signature on headrests?
Silver blue silk velour carpet in coupe as well as under front hood
Carrera badge delete?Electric sunroof?Short shift
25,900 miles from new
Full Porsche OPC History
Toolkit/Jack etc.
Original Blaupunkt Toronto
Concours winning car – 2014 ‘Best Porsche’ for the Porsche Club annual event

Unexpectedly available – this is a rare opportunity - not to be missed.






IMO looks lovely if a bit kitsch/naff on ruffle leather and signature on headrests but apart from that looks a minter to my eye

Called them today. £92,000 It belongs to one of the guys there complimented him and wished him luck with the sale but not for me at that money.

Not to be missed?

Of course if you happen to miss this cheeky little bargain then how would you be able to sleep?!!

These jokers just sum up my title of the thread.

I would feel quite ill if I had 92 grand in this common garden Porsche miles or not.

She's lovely P50 if a bit too chintzy in this spec but that was the 80s for you. Huge shoulder pads and Wham! £50k her money in the real world and I'd buy the Dick Lovett G50 if they were both £50k even though it has more miles as I much prefer the spec.

The car belongs to one of the guys who runs H and I don't think he really wants to sell it hence the stupid price.

'm not disputing it's a humdinger of a machine but I'm thinking these dealers are all getting a bit excited with themselves.

I suppose the logic is if a decent restored car is up for 70-80 then what price for a uber low mile original?

Well it can't be less can it so by default it has to be more!

So there you have it children, a 92,000pounds common garden 3.2 sport coupe.

You're better off with a nice £45 grand car that you can actually use as this thing will be harmed by the mileage going on. if you can find one - hang on, now I'm saying that a really good 3.2 G50 at £45k is cheap?!! WTF?! four months ago that £50k ovno G50 silver coupe with 40k miles seemed expensive!

Bunch of arse I tell thee!

(Was out in mine yesterday and bloody hell they are good REALLY GOOD!)

Edited by P50 on Sunday 14th December 17:19

[P50]

g7jhp said:

P50 said:

I suppose the logic is if a decent restored car is up for 70-80 then what price for a uber low mile original?

Well it can't be less can it so by default it has to be more!

So there you have it children, a 92,000pounds common garden 3.2 sport coupe.

You're better off with a nice £45 grand car that you can actually use as this thing will be harmed by the mileage going on. if you can find one - hang on, now I'm saying that a really good 3.2 G50 at £45k is cheap?!! WTF?! four months ago that £50k ovno G50 silver coupe with 40k miles seemed expensive!

Bunch of arse I tell thee!

The silver with black leather 41k mile car was top money at £50k.

Too many people getting carried away with the hype.

The overpriced car list that aren't selling is getting longer. Hexagon £92k (blue), PS £80k (silver), Early911 £55k (black). They haven't sold because the market thinks they're overpriced.

These prices make cheaper cars look cheap, but they're not.

Agreed. The market votes with its wallet.

But it seems the 308/328GTB which was the quasi rival to the 3.2 has also gone through the roof.

It's all a load of old nonsense. Trouble is decent unrestored 3.2 coupes simply do not come up. Likewise original RHD 964 manual coupe.

So we seem to have a stalemate! If you own any classic car it's 99% not going to be on finance thus owners can stick two fingers up for the cream. The S1 E Type flat floor is big money now. Aston DB's are insane.

I have a 1972 RHD Fiat 500 with 11k miles from new unrestored with a bit of 70's not brilliant minor paint rectification. There is a ceiling to its value. It's not for sale but should I ever wish to sell it, it won't be cheap. But it's a very rare example. Not a welded up 12 owner non matching number heap.

If sellers want to try it on with mediocre machines then good luck to them. It's the same with houses in Zone1/2 London. It's cooled. But Notting Hill will alway be Notting Hill. When that falls out of bed we'll all in deep doggy doo!

But....

There is a lot of monied people around and if they can see a profit then they'll punt. They will also bail if the market starts correcting thus supply/demand will go very up...

Edited by P50 on Sunday 14th December 19:30

[P50]

IMIA said:

mollytherocker said:

IMIA said:

Well a new benchmark set for clean low mileage G50 Carreras Coupes. The Dick Lovett car sold for £75k.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Do you know for a fact that the buyer paid 75k?

No but when I spoke to the sales guy when viewing the car about buying it myself I was told there was only small room for movement in the asking price. Hundreds of pounds not thousands. It was a nice honest car to be fair. I loved it in yuppy red!

Well there you go.

The hype and plain silliness continues!

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

IMIA said:

mollytherocker said:

IMIA said:

Well a new benchmark set for clean low mileage G50 Carreras Coupes. The Dick Lovett car sold for £75k.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Do you know for a fact that the buyer paid 75k?

No but when I spoke to the sales guy when viewing the car about buying it myself I was told there was only small room for movement in the asking price. Hundreds of pounds not thousands. It was a nice honest car to be fair. I loved it in yuppy red!

Well there you go.

The hype and plain silliness continues!

You say that but that car was only one of a few G50 Carreras I have seen since 2005 I would have parted with cash for. To my mind £50k was the right money for it but the car selling for approaching £75k tells me I was wrong.

The only car I would have purchased was the Silver 40k miles coupe at a pretty firm £50K ovno. It went.

A red (I can't stand red at all and value a dark metallic 20% more in my eyes but I accept I'm on my own here..) 3.2 at 75k with 50% more miles is insane.

I was lucky to find my L699 Granite Green car and it's not for sale. But simply question who is shelling out this sort of cash?

I fail to see where a £75k red sport coupe can go investment wise. That aside the G50 is in my eyes the most complete torsion bar of the lot. Why faff about with knackered old 1970's 2.7 and 3.0's i.e no proper history, massive miles, loads of owners, perhaps a couple of rebuilds of dubious execution at huge money when at the end of the day they're essentially all the same car from '74 - '89. I think the mid 70's interiors are rather austere and a touch grim. The '87 - '89 are properly sorted and are perfection. The interior quality was exceptional.

It's not like they look any different. Only an anorak can see the external differences between any G series car. A S1 E type is a lot nicer than an S3 but that's not applicable here.

The G50 used to be the best kept Porsche secret.

Oh well game over, you want you pay..

Edited by P50 on Monday 22 December 22:32

Edited by P50 on Monday 22 December 22:34

[P50]

Wozy68 said:

I'm in despair. Prices have gone mad and is taking all the fun out of it.
I've owned four, I can't see me selling my 993 and getting an earlier car again as prices have gone so silly on the earlier stuff on even the model of 911 that were poorly thought of only 5 years ago. Saying that I think it's more the 911 playing catchup compared to the rest of the 'Classic' market. Even so, I can't believe a 3.2 concourse or not is really worth 75k, and not even low low mileage.

I've decided to keep mine for another year then move on to (horror of horrors) a modern Porsche, an early 997 turbo. Can't see those dropping much more and £ vs performance and value they are a bargain compared to the air-cooled stuff now.
As the UK is so chocked up with traffic and I have to head to Spain for my fun, I recon a turbo would be spot on in the mountains and I wouldn't worry so much about it's appreciating value if I dinged it.

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 23 December 08:44

Why's it taking all the fun out of it?

Same roads, same climate, fuel's stable price wise.

If you own a car what's changed? Sorry to be a pessimist but some things get harder. Some easier. You could have left school aged 14 in the 60's and chosen any number of jobs. Bought a banger XK120 for a thirty quid and driven around pissed legally. Meet a doris and buy a little flat in Notting Hill for 5 grand!

Now you need a two one degree or two to work in a Mc Filth, house prices bear no correlation to salary at 15 x average earnings in London.

Times change and ultimately there's little that can be done. supply vs demand.

Mobile phones were mega expensive and are now peanuts to run!

To sum up the stuff's still out there but you now have to wait longer and save harder for your goal. I wish we could revert to buying tasty kit for small change but save a massive crash it's moved on.

Or set your sights lower! A 997 is still rear engined! ;o) I started this thread and painfully concede that a new order has arrived.

For every luddite that lives in the past there's an army of new blood who will simply get into stuff and care a jot not about the "good old days"!!

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 10:07

[P50]

shoestring7 said:

Because you can enjoy thrashing the pants off them in all weathers, and once you've tired of that you can re-build them into the 911 you really want and go and thrash the pants off them again and not get all precious about your 'investment'.

There's a fresh magnesium cased 915 'box in my old 911 with a WEVO shift. Apart from a slight hesitation from first to second its a 'box that does everything I need, and has a sweet change that perfectly compliments a zingy carb'd 2.5l engine. The G50 was part of Porsche's long endeavour to make the 911 an idiot-proof steer for Merkins, any half competent driver will have no problems with a decent 915.

The mag-cased unit is also the lightest 911 gearbox, 50kgs vs nearly 120kgs for a PDK......

SS7

My first 911 was an '85 coupe and the first thing I thought was WTF?! I likened the shift to my my fathers Alfa GTV6 at the time. Shocking.(BTW it was a 50k mile two owner car). Throw too long, no self centre across the 2nd to 3rd plane and very slow and deliberate or it will baulk. What's the good of that in a sports car?!

You can chintz up as much as you like about the 915 but at the end of the day it's the aspect that needed to be improved. The G50 raised the shift quality to the level of the steering feel.

Porsche didn't actually go to the Getrag to improve the shift for dumbheads. That wasn't the issue. It was done to take much higher torque. A 915 is on the limit 5 speed at 350ft lbs and a G50 can take in excess of a 1000.

They say a cracking 915 condition wise is a much sounder choice than a rotted knackered G50. I agree. But the G50 what a revelation.

In '95 my pal drove my 915 and said the shift was poor. So he bought an '88 Coupe and I soon followed!

Footnote.

I suppose the hardcore will always like a twitchy SWB 911S and thus any compromise of the genesis concept will be unacceptable. Some may like the 901/915 as it is a challenge. I prefer a G50 as it's much nicer in the real world pottering around.

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 14:34

[P50]

Tripe Bypass said:

Hexagon car showing on Autotrader for £179,995.

I'll take two!

These are not RS's! No alloy panels. No exceptional works twin plug bigger CC motor. No quick steering/trick suspension/race brakes or special anything really. The motor can rev a bit higher.

I give up.

[P50]

More nonsense. Went to 18.5 as an auction listing so re list at 50! How's a 126K mile 3.2 coupe in that bracket?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-3-2-g50-coup...

This thing went to £60100 reserve not met! It needs a FULL PROPER RESTO. I reckon you could sink £75-100K into it. At least the interior is very inviting and clearly loved.

I think we're in hardcore tulip mode.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-1965-matchin...

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 18:38

[P50]

IMIA said:

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

[P50]

Wozy68 said:

I have absolutely no idea what your on about. Its not I can't afford another one, or anything else. Its the 'precious' price they are becoming.

Pretty much all classic cars are fair weather toys.

I doubt anyone with a nice classic 911 would have used it through the winter when they were more affordable. The reason they're nice is because they have been cherished.

My '85 915 in '95 was a cherished machine then at 10 years old by the 2nd owner. The 80's air cooled cars had classic status from the day they were delivered.

Some were used and abused. These are now the rusty cars on ebay for 18 grand. So you can still buy a cheap MOT's 911 for winter duty.

The good stuff is rare and has gone up. If it's exceptional it will have a specialist market over a normal car. If that value is where the dizzy heights the dealers are asking is another matter.

I can tell you of three G50's near me in sound condition out in all weathers.

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 19:51

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

IMIA said:

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

Show me a straight G50 coupe pls for £40k! The Dick Lovett G50 sold for approaching £75k with close to 60k miles - nice enough car. The Hexagon G50 with 25k miles is £90k.

I concede you're correct.

I have to admit that a good G50 coupe is £60k plus.

[P50]

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

Its not mental when you consider a 1972-3 RS lw is £1m smakeroonies. With 250 GT0 at £20m the RS has some way to go north as its easily as important a car as a GTO in my book.
Back to the real world if the Hexagon CS was a bit nicer I'd have laid it on (its nice but not £180k nice). I think the car probably stands them in at £150k so they deserve a good profit if there is a buyer out there who's less fussy than me.

How can you compare a 2.7RS to a 250GTO?!

A GTO is in the SSK, Alfa Monza, Blower Bentley, Type 59, D Type, Lightweight Gullwing, Aston DB4GT and DB4GTZ, SEFAC 250SWB, 412P, 917, Cobra Daytona Coupe et al bracket. Proper player collectors cars for the zenith of society financially.

You clearly think a CS is a lesser 2.7RS which in turn can somehow be likened to a GTO.

Each to their own..

[P50]

IMIA said:

Historically the 2.7RS to my mind is every bit as important a car from a historic racing perspective as a 250 GTO.

The CS is not connected to the RS in anyway apart from it can trace its ancestry back to an RS. If I wanted an RS I'd buy an RS. As I said the CS is more than the sum of its parts. A very special car indeed. A real drivers car.

The CS is not an IROC RSR, 911R, 3.8 964RS, RS4.0 or a GS 356.

It is a 3.2 Coupe with a lot of padding removed and some trick exhaust valves. I fail to see any tangible connection of any CS to an RS.

The GTO/2.7 analogy is beyond insane. It's like comparing a 1275 Cooper S to an RS2.7!

More hype and plain silliness.

[P50]

IMIA said:

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean,

I'm not confused at all dear boy. Success is one thing and desirability quite another.

The 911 is the greatest sports/racing car of all time as it has been around for 50 odd years. Honed to perfection through evolution. However the 50's/60's Ferrari's are now in the league of Picasso, Rothko, Mondrian etc etc.

They are lusted after as they have it all. Styling, performance, handling and the most important thing image/rarity. The reason they are rare is because they were hugely expensive in their day for a very narrow audience. They also won quite a lot.

The 911 in the states sold like in huge numbers. Hundreds of thousands.

That a 2.7 is historical is in no doubt. But you're light years out out comparing it to any racing 250/275 Ferrari! It's like saying my flat in Croydon is more desirable than your flat in Holland Park as it has a better kitchen! It's almost blasphemy to mention an RS in the same sentence as a GTO.

I think a works lightweight E type is magnificent and that where we're at. Not hotted up 911's and especially not CS 3.2's! If you're going down that road then it's applicable to something like the Giulia GTA. That's were the 2.7 is. That's its league. Not 250 Ferraris!

Oh and as for the GTO styling being a bit off here and there I think the zenith is its father the SWB.

Edited by P50 on Wednesday 24th December 16:13

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

IMIA said:

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean,

I'm not confused at all dear boy. Success is one thing and desirability quite another.

The 911 is the greatest sports/racing car of all time as it has been around for 50 odd years. Honed to perfection through evolution. However the 50's/60's Ferrari's are now in the league of Picasso, Rothko, Mondrian etc etc.

They are lusted after as they have it all. Styling, performance, handling and the most important thing image/rarity. The reason they are rare is because they were hugely expensive in their day for a very narrow audience. They also won quite a lot.

The 911 in the states sold like in huge numbers. Hundreds of thousands.

That a 2.7 is historical is in no doubt. But you're light years out out comparing it to any racing 250/275 Ferrari!

I think a works lightweight E type is magnificent and that where we're at. Not hotted up 911's and especially not CS 3.2's! If you're going down that road then it's applicable to something like the Giulia GTA. That's were the 2.7 is. That's its league. Not 250 Ferraris!

Oh and as for the GTO styling being a bit off here and there I think the zenith is its father the SWB.

Whisper. I'd have the Fezzas over the 911 any day

Hehe. So would I!!