More hype and plain silliness

[P50]

More nonsense. Went to 18.5 as an auction listing so re list at 50! How's a 126K mile 3.2 coupe in that bracket?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-3-2-g50-coup...

This thing went to £60100 reserve not met! It needs a FULL PROPER RESTO. I reckon you could sink £75-100K into it. At least the interior is very inviting and clearly loved.

I think we're in hardcore tulip mode.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-1965-matchin...

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 18:38

[IMIA]

P50 said:

Tripe Bypass said:

Hexagon car showing on Autotrader for £179,995.

I'll take two!

These are not RS's! No alloy panels. No exceptional works twin plug bigger CC motor. No quick steering/trick suspension/race brakes or special anything really. The motor can rev a bit higher.

I give up.

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

[ro55a]

Just for your information Gentlemen, take it as you find it! I spoke to a long standing and reputable Porsche dealer on Saturday. He has had the worst 6 months in memory with regard sales. He blames the incredible surge in prices and as such has seen the market grind to a halt. In his own words, the good cars have disappeared and people are trying to sell the old rubbish for top money.
When you think about it, what can you get for £15-25k now? 85 targa with some SH and in need of some TLC?

[P50]

IMIA said:

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

[IMIA]

P50 said:

IMIA said:

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

Show me a straight G50 coupe pls for £40k! The Dick Lovett G50 sold for approaching £75k with close to 60k miles - nice enough car. The Hexagon G50 with 25k miles is £90k.

[Wozy68]

P50 said:

Wozy68 said:

I'm in despair. Prices have gone mad and is taking all the fun out of it.
I've owned four, I can't see me selling my 993 and getting an earlier car again as prices have gone so silly on the earlier stuff on even the model of 911 that were poorly thought of only 5 years ago. Saying that I think it's more the 911 playing catchup compared to the rest of the 'Classic' market. Even so, I can't believe a 3.2 concourse or not is really worth 75k, and not even low low mileage.

I've decided to keep mine for another year then move on to (horror of horrors) a modern Porsche, an early 997 turbo. Can't see those dropping much more and £ vs performance and value they are a bargain compared to the air-cooled stuff now.
As the UK is so chocked up with traffic and I have to head to Spain for my fun, I recon a turbo would be spot on in the mountains and I wouldn't worry so much about it's appreciating value if I dinged it.

Edited by Wozy68 on Tuesday 23 December 08:44

Why's it taking all the fun out of it?

Same roads, same climate, fuel's stable price wise.

If you own a car what's changed? Sorry to be a pessimist but some things get harder. Some easier. You could have left school aged 14 in the 60's and chosen any number of jobs. Bought a banger XK120 for a thirty quid and driven around pissed legally. Meet a doris and buy a little flat in Notting Hill for 5 grand!

Now you need a two one degree or two to work in a Mc Filth, house prices bear no correlation to salary at 15 x average earnings in London.

Times change and ultimately there's little that can be done. supply vs demand.

Mobile phones were mega expensive and are now peanuts to run!

To sum up the stuff's still out there but you now have to wait longer and save harder for your goal. I wish we could revert to buying tasty kit for small change but save a massive crash it's moved on.

Or set your sights lower! A 997 is still rear engined! ;o) I started this thread and painfully concede that a new order has arrived.

For every luddite that lives in the past there's an army of new blood who will simply get into stuff and care a jot not about the "good old days"!!

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 10:07

I have absolutely no idea what your on about. Its not I can't afford another one, or anything else. Its the 'precious' price they are becoming.

[Wozy68]

shoestring7 said:

P50 said:

Why faff about with knackered old 1970's 2.7 and 3.0's i.e no proper history, massive miles, loads of owners, perhaps a couple of rebuilds of dubious execution at huge money when at the end of the day they're essentially all the same car from '74 - '89.

Because you can enjoy thrashing the pants off them in all weathers, and once you've tired of that you can re-build them into the 911 you really want and go and thrash the pants off them again and not get all precious about your 'investment'.

There's a fresh magnesium cased 915 'box in my old 911 with a WEVO shift. Apart from a slight hesitation from first to second its a 'box that does everything I need, and has a sweet change that perfectly compliments a zingy carb'd 2.5l engine. The G50 was part of Porsche's long endeavour to make the 911 an idiot-proof steer for Merkins, any half competent driver will have no problems with a decent 915.

The mag-cased unit is also the lightest 911 gearbox, 50kgs vs nearly 120kgs for a PDK......

SS7

This ^^^^.

[P50]

Wozy68 said:

I have absolutely no idea what your on about. Its not I can't afford another one, or anything else. Its the 'precious' price they are becoming.

Pretty much all classic cars are fair weather toys.

I doubt anyone with a nice classic 911 would have used it through the winter when they were more affordable. The reason they're nice is because they have been cherished.

My '85 915 in '95 was a cherished machine then at 10 years old by the 2nd owner. The 80's air cooled cars had classic status from the day they were delivered.

Some were used and abused. These are now the rusty cars on ebay for 18 grand. So you can still buy a cheap MOT's 911 for winter duty.

The good stuff is rare and has gone up. If it's exceptional it will have a specialist market over a normal car. If that value is where the dizzy heights the dealers are asking is another matter.

I can tell you of three G50's near me in sound condition out in all weathers.

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 23 December 19:51

[RSVP911]

RSVP911 said:

ro55a said:

Just for your information Gentlemen, take it as you find it! I spoke to a long standing and reputable Porsche dealer on Saturday. He has had the worst 6 months in memory with regard sales. He blames the incredible surge in prices and as such has seen the market grind to a halt. In his own words, the good cars have disappeared and people are trying to sell the old rubbish for top money.
When you think about it, what can you get for £15-25k now? 85 targa with some SH and in need of some TLC?

Funny I was thinking about this after reading the thread - the market at this point in time is a virtuous circle - prices are rising & because of this , people want to keep their cars ; only reason to sell now is if you have to or if you swop it for a "better" version - as such the market becomes starved of stock and this pushes the prices up even more , which in turn , makes you want to keep the cars even more & so it goes on. Also as dealers can't get enough stock they try and increase margins on the few they have which in turn drives up prices again ( no point selling for a small margin unless you have another to replace it - may as well just hold on) It's an interesting dynamic and one that I only think will change when the economy fundamentally changes , forcing numerous people to sell , then as stock increases prices will fall and then everyone panics wanting to sell quickly before prices bottom out : thus forcing them down even further . I realise what I'm describing is standard boom and bust - but it is interesting watching it happen (well the first bit anyway) So fingers crossed all of this madness will stop and we can return to a normal market ( if there is such a thing) so people , like me , who love these cars as cars , not as investments can crack on and enjoy them for what they are.

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 23 December 21:07

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

IMIA said:

You need to drive one. Much better drive than a standard car and much more than the sum of its parts IMO. I'd love to own one.

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

Show me a straight G50 coupe pls for £40k! The Dick Lovett G50 sold for approaching £75k with close to 60k miles - nice enough car. The Hexagon G50 with 25k miles is £90k.

I concede you're correct.

I have to admit that a good G50 coupe is £60k plus.

[topcarrera]

P50 said:

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

[topcarrera]

P50 said:

Noted. But the question begs are they +- £140k better than the sum of a straight G50?

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

[P50]

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

[Geneve]

There is a Porsche service document that lists the full extent of the Carrera 'Club Sport' modifications, and they are more extensive and in depth than most people realise.

As well as an extensive list of deleted items, there are some notable lightened/simplified components, plus performance enhancements. It's factory designation was M637.

They don't amount to an 'RS', but if the 3.2 Carrera is held in high regard, then it's the ultimate driver's variant.

(Dr) Georg Konradsheim, co author of the Carrera RS 'bible', apparently had a pre-production CS with 915 gearbox! And a CS was Chris Harris's first Porsche.

I ran one from '96 to '08 (should never have sold it looking at current values ) - but I can confirm that a really good example is one of the nicest 911s of all time.

[IMIA]

P50 said:

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

Its not mental when you consider a 1972-3 RS lw is £1m smakeroonies. With 250 GT0 at £20m the RS has some way to go north as its easily as important a car as a GTO in my book.
Back to the real world if the Hexagon CS was a bit nicer I'd have laid it on (its nice but not £180k nice). I think the car probably stands them in at £150k so they deserve a good profit if there is a buyer out there who's less fussy than me.

[g7jhp]

P50 said:

I concede you're correct.

I have to admit that a good G50 coupe is £60k plus.

More cars will come for sale as the weather improves and I'm sure there will be a number of good G50's in the £30-40k bracket.

If you bought a 3.2 at 16k+ it's all upside and it really depends what you want to get into.

[IMIA]

g7jhp said:

P50 said:

I concede you're correct.

I have to admit that a good G50 coupe is £60k plus.

More cars will come for sale as the weather improves and I'm sure there will be a number of good G50's in the £30-40k bracket.

If you bought a 3.2 at 16k+ it's all upside and it really depends what you want to get into.

The issue is that many cars look nice and shiny on the outside but most on the inside are like this. If you're happy with a restored car then yes £30-40k realistic but the rust always comesback once its set in.

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2...

[mollytherocker]

IMIA said:

The issue is that many cars look nice and shiny on the outside but most on the inside are like this. If you're happy with a restored car then yes £30-40k realistic but the rust always comesback once its set in.

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2...

That is the grim reality of most cars, no matter how shiny they look on top!

[IMIA]

mollytherocker said:

IMIA said:

The issue is that many cars look nice and shiny on the outside but most on the inside are like this. If you're happy with a restored car then yes £30-40k realistic but the rust always comesback once its set in.

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2...

That is the grim reality of most cars, no matter how shiny they look on top!

yes and the car in the thread really isn't all that bad. most are far worse than this under their shiny paint

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

Its not mental when you consider a 1972-3 RS lw is £1m smakeroonies. With 250 GT0 at £20m the RS has some way to go north as its easily as important a car as a GTO in my book.
Back to the real world if the Hexagon CS was a bit nicer I'd have laid it on (its nice but not £180k nice). I think the car probably stands them in at £150k so they deserve a good profit if there is a buyer out there who's less fussy than me.

How can you compare a 2.7RS to a 250GTO?!

A GTO is in the SSK, Alfa Monza, Blower Bentley, Type 59, D Type, Lightweight Gullwing, Aston DB4GT and DB4GTZ, SEFAC 250SWB, 412P, 917, Cobra Daytona Coupe et al bracket. Proper player collectors cars for the zenith of society financially.

You clearly think a CS is a lesser 2.7RS which in turn can somehow be likened to a GTO.

Each to their own..