More hype and plain silliness

[IMIA]

P50 said:

IMIA said:

P50 said:

topcarrera said:

The Clubsports are lovely and as a penniless student in the late 80s I remember falling in love the first time I saw a brand new car in the AFN showroom in Guildford.

The reality is that their desirability over standard models is largely down to the the exclusivity factor and a bit of hype and very little to do with any real mechanical differences. An 86 (last of the pre G50 cars) LHD non sunroof coupe with minimal creature comfort features(that unfortunately afflicted many UK cars) with a crisp top end, strong map and fresh suspension will be just as capable,as light and at least as quick as any standard CS

OK. So we also have another CS

The 968 CS. Another "rare" track leaning Porsche. The 968 is obviously no 911 but has its enthusiastic followers.

You can pick a good one up for 25 grand. Which appears to be twice the money of a standard good 968. Will the 968CS go bonkers?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

If a good G50 coupe is arguably 60k then I think 180k for a 911CS is utterly laughable.

Dealers are eating their tails. They're pushing prices up but can't get the stock cheap as the flip side is sellers are hanging onto their cars. An insane self fulfilling prophecy

I see loads of wanted ads everywhere from dealers. House prices are falling back and I can see the car market having some wind taken out of its sails at some point.

180 grand for a CS is nothing short of mental unstability.

Its not mental when you consider a 1972-3 RS lw is £1m smakeroonies. With 250 GT0 at £20m the RS has some way to go north as its easily as important a car as a GTO in my book.
Back to the real world if the Hexagon CS was a bit nicer I'd have laid it on (its nice but not £180k nice). I think the car probably stands them in at £150k so they deserve a good profit if there is a buyer out there who's less fussy than me.

How can you compare a 2.7RS to a 250GTO?!

A GTO is in the SSK, Alfa Monza, Blower Bentley, Type 59, D Type, Lightweight Gullwing, Aston DB4GT and DB4GTZ, SEFAC 250SWB, 412P, 917, Cobra Daytona Coupe et al bracket. Proper player collectors cars for the zenith of society financially.

You clearly think a CS is a lesser 2.7RS which in turn can somehow be likened to a GTO.

Each to their own..

Historically the 2.7RS to my mind is every bit as important a car from a historic racing perspective as a 250 GTO.

The CS is not connected to the RS in anyway apart from it can trace its ancestry back to an RS. If I wanted an RS I'd buy an RS. As I said the CS is more than the sum of its parts. A very special car indeed. A real drivers car.

[IMIA]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

£19m differential in values still does not stack up. The issue I have with most of the RS I have seen is they are all restored. It would be nice to see one with its original patina

[RSVP911]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I really , really love 911's , especially the old one's and I am not a fan of the Italian stuff - but I'd take a 250 GTO over any Porsche every day of the week - it is without doubt the most beautiful thing I've ever seen !



Oh st , except for my wife (just incase she reads this - not really though I prefer the GTO - but don't tell her ! )

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 24th December 12:40

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 24th December 12:41

[P50]

IMIA said:

Historically the 2.7RS to my mind is every bit as important a car from a historic racing perspective as a 250 GTO.

The CS is not connected to the RS in anyway apart from it can trace its ancestry back to an RS. If I wanted an RS I'd buy an RS. As I said the CS is more than the sum of its parts. A very special car indeed. A real drivers car.

The CS is not an IROC RSR, 911R, 3.8 964RS, RS4.0 or a GS 356.

It is a 3.2 Coupe with a lot of padding removed and some trick exhaust valves. I fail to see any tangible connection of any CS to an RS.

The GTO/2.7 analogy is beyond insane. It's like comparing a 1275 Cooper S to an RS2.7!

More hype and plain silliness.

[shoestring7]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No, I think you'll find that of the 39 250GTOs built, 78 survive.

SS7

[shoestring7]

RSVP911 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I really , really love 911's , especially the old one's and I am not a fan of the Italian stuff - but I'd take a 250 GTO over any Porsche every day of the week - it is without doubt the most beautiful thing I've ever seen !



Oh st , except for my wife (just incase she reads this - not really though I prefer the GTO - but don't tell her ! )

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 24th December 12:40

Edited by RSVP911 on Wednesday 24th December 12:41

[url]

I know everyone likes to go on about the perfection of the GTO's shape, but anyone with a half-way critical eye realises that this bit by the B pillar is a complete fecking mess of colliding lines. I don't blame Bizzarini and Scaglietti, they designed the car to go fast, not be a prefect shape, but the adulation is quite unthinking and rather undeserved. Pininfarina's Lusso is a much more resolved go on the same chassis.

|http://thumbsnap.com/m12Qm0Fy[/url]

SS7

[IMIA]

P50 said:

IMIA said:

Historically the 2.7RS to my mind is every bit as important a car from a historic racing perspective as a 250 GTO.

The CS is not connected to the RS in anyway apart from it can trace its ancestry back to an RS. If I wanted an RS I'd buy an RS. As I said the CS is more than the sum of its parts. A very special car indeed. A real drivers car.

The CS is not an IROC RSR, 911R, 3.8 964RS, RS4.0 or a GS 356.

It is a 3.2 Coupe with a lot of padding removed and some trick exhaust valves. I fail to see any tangible connection of any CS to an RS.

The GTO/2.7 analogy is beyond insane. It's like comparing a 1275 Cooper S to an RS2.7!

More hype and plain silliness.

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean.

[P50]

IMIA said:

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean,

I'm not confused at all dear boy. Success is one thing and desirability quite another.

The 911 is the greatest sports/racing car of all time as it has been around for 50 odd years. Honed to perfection through evolution. However the 50's/60's Ferrari's are now in the league of Picasso, Rothko, Mondrian etc etc.

They are lusted after as they have it all. Styling, performance, handling and the most important thing image/rarity. The reason they are rare is because they were hugely expensive in their day for a very narrow audience. They also won quite a lot.

The 911 in the states sold like in huge numbers. Hundreds of thousands.

That a 2.7 is historical is in no doubt. But you're light years out out comparing it to any racing 250/275 Ferrari! It's like saying my flat in Croydon is more desirable than your flat in Holland Park as it has a better kitchen! It's almost blasphemy to mention an RS in the same sentence as a GTO.

I think a works lightweight E type is magnificent and that where we're at. Not hotted up 911's and especially not CS 3.2's! If you're going down that road then it's applicable to something like the Giulia GTA. That's were the 2.7 is. That's its league. Not 250 Ferraris!

Oh and as for the GTO styling being a bit off here and there I think the zenith is its father the SWB.

Edited by P50 on Wednesday 24th December 16:13

[IMIA]

P50 said:

IMIA said:

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean,

I'm not confused at all dear boy. Success is one thing and desirability quite another.

The 911 is the greatest sports/racing car of all time as it has been around for 50 odd years. Honed to perfection through evolution. However the 50's/60's Ferrari's are now in the league of Picasso, Rothko, Mondrian etc etc.

They are lusted after as they have it all. Styling, performance, handling and the most important thing image/rarity. The reason they are rare is because they were hugely expensive in their day for a very narrow audience. They also won quite a lot.

The 911 in the states sold like in huge numbers. Hundreds of thousands.

That a 2.7 is historical is in no doubt. But you're light years out out comparing it to any racing 250/275 Ferrari!

I think a works lightweight E type is magnificent and that where we're at. Not hotted up 911's and especially not CS 3.2's! If you're going down that road then it's applicable to something like the Giulia GTA. That's were the 2.7 is. That's its league. Not 250 Ferraris!

Oh and as for the GTO styling being a bit off here and there I think the zenith is its father the SWB.

Whisper. I'd have the Fezzas over the 911 any day

[P50]

IMIA said:

P50 said:

IMIA said:

I said the CS is not connected to the RS in any way. It can of course trace its ancestry back to the 2.7RS as it follows in the footsteps of its predecessors theme of simplicity and light weight.

The 2.7 RS is arguably the Porsche that set in motion the 911’s progression from great road car to one of the finest track machines of all-time and over 40 years has helped the 911 to be the most successful race and rally car of all time with more race victories than any other car. I've driven both an RS and a Club Sport and they are still today exhilarating cars to drive and my daily driver is a 650bhp/205mph car. The 2.7 RS was the basis for the 2.8 RSR and 3.0 RSR cars you refer to which were racing counterparts of the 2.7RS. For the 1973 season it had the Ferrari 365 GTB Daytona 'Competizione' in its cross hairs. It won six out of nine rounds of the 1973 European GT Championship handing Ferrari its arse. To me the 911 2.7 RS is in many ways more significant from racing history perspective than the 250 GTO as its the grand daddy of the most successful sports car of all time and one of the main reasons the 911 has always enjoyed such a strong reputation as a brand. The 2.7RS is a few years younger than a 250 GTO and dynamically every bit as capable as a 250 GTO. I do not know much about Minis but if the 1275 Cooper S is the basis of the Minis Rally success then yes again from a historical perspective its a very important car. Of course you can compare them all with each other although I accept the 250 GTO from a desirability perspective is in a different league. You seem to be confusing the two old bean,

I'm not confused at all dear boy. Success is one thing and desirability quite another.

The 911 is the greatest sports/racing car of all time as it has been around for 50 odd years. Honed to perfection through evolution. However the 50's/60's Ferrari's are now in the league of Picasso, Rothko, Mondrian etc etc.

They are lusted after as they have it all. Styling, performance, handling and the most important thing image/rarity. The reason they are rare is because they were hugely expensive in their day for a very narrow audience. They also won quite a lot.

The 911 in the states sold like in huge numbers. Hundreds of thousands.

That a 2.7 is historical is in no doubt. But you're light years out out comparing it to any racing 250/275 Ferrari!

I think a works lightweight E type is magnificent and that where we're at. Not hotted up 911's and especially not CS 3.2's! If you're going down that road then it's applicable to something like the Giulia GTA. That's were the 2.7 is. That's its league. Not 250 Ferraris!

Oh and as for the GTO styling being a bit off here and there I think the zenith is its father the SWB.

Whisper. I'd have the Fezzas over the 911 any day

Hehe. So would I!!

[Yellow491]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The 3.2 cs,is was the 3.2 rs version of this model,strange marketing,not quite so many special parts of the 2.7 lwt,but some parts were not required as the 3.2 chassis was better with progress.
The 2.7 rs has little competition history really,it was mainly gathered by the 2.8 rsr,of which 49 cars built are worthy of gto status if not more,as said the rsr kicked ass in 73.It will be interesting to see if the rsr gathers the dizzy heights of a gto.

[RSVP911]

shoestring7]url said:

I know everyone likes to go on about the perfection of the GTO's shape, but anyone with a half-way critical eye realises that this bit by the B pillar is a complete fecking mess of colliding lines. I don't blame Bizzarini and Scaglietti, they designed the car to go fast, not be a prefect shape, but the adulation is quite unthinking and rather undeserved. Pininfarina's Lusso is a much more resolved go on the same chassis.

|http://thumbsnap.com/m12Qm0Fy[/url]

SS7

I see your point , but you know what I'd give it the benefit of the doubt - Merry Christmas

[david hockney]

Whilst I can see why a Ferrari GTO is hugely desirable and expensive I also think it's certainly not the most beautiful looking car around- for a start a series 1 Jaguar E Type FHC is a far nicer shape....as Enzo himself famously once admitted.
Whilst I can see why a 2.7RS is hugely desirable and expensive I think it's fair to say that there's several hundred more beautiful cars that have been made....

[P50]

I think we can safely say that whilst the RS is a "tool" it is pretty mainstream. Loads built on a very familiar car.

This device is for the uber riche with exquisite taste..

Money talks and wealth whispers. I have no desire to go to Monaco these days.

[P50]

Whilst we're at it and going off at a minor tangent if money was no object, this is the most stunning car of all time.

X rated Drogo designed in its utter magnificence. Not as usable in any way as a GTO but sublime in its styling..

[IMIA]

Merry Xmas PH

http://vimeo.com/56926831

[hunter 66]

Yellow do you know anyone who actually owns a 2.8 RSR ?
Have a good holidays and yes must arrange a playdate soon ....

[Yellow491]

hunter 66 said:

Yellow do you know anyone who actually owns a 2.8 RSR ? Might do.
Have a good holidays and yes must arrange a playdate soon ....

Dont eat to many pies mate,what have you done to our other friend,he is clearly not well,6 feet 6,and trying to squeeze into a exotic italian beast.Is it our new 24 hr racer,it looks good.

[roygarth]

P50 said:

for the uber riche with exquisite taste..

Very nearly an oxymoron.

[hunter 66]

Yes mad Italian V12 .... seen the light , cannot afford Pork anymore ........ my favourite scene in the The Wolf of Wall street when he goes to the country club to make a call in the Countach...
We have some ideas racewise but all the best for 2015 ......