More hype and plain silliness
Discussion
...I am getting very confused now as to the value of cars, silly old me thought it was the level at what a buyer was willing to pay for a car and a seller was willing to sell said car for. Obviously not, in some corners of PH's (the place where people sold cars in the past at too low a price or those that want to buy a car at a price in the past but thought prices at the time were too high) the price is something else. Could someone from that corner create a table as the 'proper' price of air cooled cars should be, that would be most helpful. Could they then tell me where I can buy a car for their prices. Cheers
Black_mamba said:
...lets see how long this takes to go...
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/807/9113.2...
looks a lovely car.
...just over a day...market wins againhttp://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/807/9113.2...
looks a lovely car.
Black_mamba said:
Black_mamba said:
...lets see how long this takes to go...
http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/807/9113.2...
looks a lovely car.
...just over a day...market wins againhttp://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/807/9113.2...
looks a lovely car.
Classic cars are worth what a punter is willing to pay.
Fair play if somebody wants to pay 40k for a relatively vanilla 911 3.2.
I've had one a minter and a couple SSE's an SC an 89 930 a 964 turbo a 993 C4S
Personally (and I can afford to buy at these inflated prices) I wouldn't but that's me.
Each to their own I guess.
If I was a trader I too would be aiming at fools with too much money, there's plenty of them obviously....I guess that's the market place now.
Its a shame though as there are a lot of enthusiasts who have been priced out of the market place.
Fair play if somebody wants to pay 40k for a relatively vanilla 911 3.2.
I've had one a minter and a couple SSE's an SC an 89 930 a 964 turbo a 993 C4S
Personally (and I can afford to buy at these inflated prices) I wouldn't but that's me.
Each to their own I guess.
If I was a trader I too would be aiming at fools with too much money, there's plenty of them obviously....I guess that's the market place now.
Its a shame though as there are a lot of enthusiasts who have been priced out of the market place.
The market isn't perfect I'll agree, most aren't, but at the end of the day its what we have, people sell cars, people buy cars price is discovered, end of. If a car sells quickly then its probably too cheap, therefore subsequent prices will go up, if a car takes too long to sell (or market does not catch up the price) then prices soften. I doubt (in fact very much doubt after face to face conversations with a fair few recently) that there's a dealer 'cartel', all they are doing are acting at brokers, middlemen who stand between sellers and buyers they want to flip cars as quick as they can and get on to the next deal, if any gripe is to be had then direct it at the 'greedy' sellers who supply the dealers (they do buy their stock...well most of them)...blooming robbers, probably the same people that made me pay too much for my house...gits
Crimp said:
True a lot of the cars are SOR.
4 star classics (who are renowned for their silly pricing of late) operate all or most of the stock on a SOR basis.
Nice business model.
its not SOR, SOR distorts the market as sellers are unrealistic of the true value of a car and dealers have to over quote the potential return to get the car into the showroom (same as estate agents). the dealer who puts his hand in his pocket want to just churn that car ASAP for his (modest 4 star classics (who are renowned for their silly pricing of late) operate all or most of the stock on a SOR basis.
Nice business model.
) return, then go again...and again...and again, is the real broker. I come from the sharp end of energy commodity trading and I can assure you that over regulation can be as big a problem if not a bigger problem that little or no regulation! I think that the pistonheads forum acts as a perfectly good ombudsman, the amount of car ad's I've seen shot down in flames for whatever reason...HWM is a good example, as is the current thread on the 993...PHers will work out its real price!!
g7jhp said:
Well the Lime Green Tuthills 3.2 is back on the market for £70k at JZM (having been sold by Cameron Sports Cars last year for circa £46k).
Now I love that, but as you say last year sold at £46k, now up for £70k, imagine the look Russ would give you if you offered him £50k for it...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmm? I'm not so sure that these "new" investors are idiots who can be ripped off at ease.If you have 50k, 100, 500 or a million quid to spend on a machine you're invariably no fool. Yes there will be some gullible types but most will be astute individuals who feel the cars price is worth what it is.
Going back to the 3.2 I think they have been undervalued for far too long. It seems the 308/328 has increased commensurate with the 911 so it's not that an anomaly.
I think however that a Targa Carrera 3 or 2.7 IB at over 100k is utter crap and is just dealers trying it on.
What the future holds I know not but if I had to speculate on a crash, static or rising, I'd probably go for static for the next couple of years.
I see no reason for a crash. Much like prime London property. Z1/2 London gafs are now for the extremely wealthy and therefore are not for Sun reader consumption!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I concede that there will be some new types on the scene looking to trouser a few quid but your usual classic car enthusiast is exactly that. An enthusiast.He will be buying through desire. Invariably saved up, traded up, done well in other markets and buying his prize for hard earned cash.
Cretins in Range Sports and X5's with crap plates are all fart and no $hit. They buy on finance and generally are two paydays away from financial melt down. Most but no all.
Classic car blokes are a different breed. I live in W11 and I see Pagoda's smoking around and Aston DB's here and there.
They are driven and owned by epic players. Period.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
One could argue that Z1/2 property has also gone insane.It is no longer the preserve of the merely wealthy. A one bed council flat in W11 is £650k!
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/prope...
That is FECKING INSANE!!
25% deposit needed? £162k if you please.
then your 480k mortgage PLUS costs like stamp etc.
You need to be on 120k a year (at 4 x salary loan if you can get it, if not you'll need to be on £150k PA at 3ish times) and have 160k kicking around for the dep.
All this to live in a one bed COUNCIL FLAT!! It's an "ideal first time buy". WTF? first time? err if you're a director of a multinational. I've never read so much crud.
Everything has gone mad. Utterly off the scale insane.
You or I do not dictate the market. It is what it is.
There a are a LOT of very wealthy people around these days and they will spend it as they see fit.
(Certain) Classic cars will become the preserve of the UBER rich. Even the porridge ordinaries could afford. Like 3.2's!
Or it might all crash?
Who knows?!!!!
Edited by P50 on Thursday 19th March 23:01
Edited by P50 on Thursday 19th March 23:04
This dude doesn't know what he's even selling. 118k miles 40 grand?
Supersport? Confidence not inspired. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Supersport? Confidence not inspired. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
P50 said:
This dude doesn't know what he's even selling. 118k miles 40 grand?
Supersport? Confidence not inspired. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
"should represent an excellent investment in what is a strong market for 911s" not at £40k, it would at £25k.Supersport? Confidence not inspired. Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 pounds.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Interest rates at 0, and not likely to move for like.. err forever..
Real estate already left the harbor a long time ago..
Overlooked for a long time Carerras looked expensive @20k 2-3 years ago are now looking cheap at 40.
Not surprising really.
I do not know many people who would turn down a car because it was too cheap and telling the seller to up his price, so why are you condemning traders doing the same? Trader bashing is getting tedious, they are just doing what they always did, buy and sell cars. Now with bigger profit. If you think they are making too much money start a company and get trading...
Real estate already left the harbor a long time ago..
Overlooked for a long time Carerras looked expensive @20k 2-3 years ago are now looking cheap at 40.
Not surprising really.
I do not know many people who would turn down a car because it was too cheap and telling the seller to up his price, so why are you condemning traders doing the same? Trader bashing is getting tedious, they are just doing what they always did, buy and sell cars. Now with bigger profit. If you think they are making too much money start a company and get trading...
Maybe, but when they are stretching incredulity, they could at least invest some effort in the photographs.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Not to mention the dodgy aftermarket wheels and sunstrip
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Not to mention the dodgy aftermarket wheels and sunstrip
fredt said:
Interest rates at 0, and not likely to move for like.. err forever..
Real estate already left the harbor a long time ago..
Overlooked for a long time Carerras looked expensive @20k 2-3 years ago are now looking cheap at 40.
Not surprising really.
I do not know many people who would turn down a car because it was too cheap and telling the seller to up his price, so why are you condemning traders doing the same? Trader bashing is getting tedious, they are just doing what they always did, buy and sell cars. Now with bigger profit. If you think they are making too much money start a company and get trading...
I agree just like houses sellers aren't going to leave money on the table if people are willing to pay and that's fair enough.Real estate already left the harbor a long time ago..
Overlooked for a long time Carerras looked expensive @20k 2-3 years ago are now looking cheap at 40.
Not surprising really.
I do not know many people who would turn down a car because it was too cheap and telling the seller to up his price, so why are you condemning traders doing the same? Trader bashing is getting tedious, they are just doing what they always did, buy and sell cars. Now with bigger profit. If you think they are making too much money start a company and get trading...
Of all the Porsche independents I think 911 Virgin seems to find the right balance around pricing. You pay a premium for a car but it's backed by a reputation (I have no connection to 911 Virgin, although I must pay them a visit at some point).
Others independents put cars up for fantasy amounts and hope they find a 'fat cat' who's needs that car whatever the cost.
Finding a solid well maintained 911 at a sensible price is hard enough for enthusiasts and a minefield to the untrained.
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