More hype and plain silliness

[355Chris355]

Silverstone auctions today has brought some perspective to the Porsche market:

These are all hammer prices (13% extra with auction fees):

Good performers:
Porsche 996 GT2 £77k
Porsche 911 GT2 RS 997 £210k

Poor Performers
1972 Porsche 911 T Targa £34k (Guide £38k to £40k)
1968 Porsche 911 Coupe £42k (Guide £45k to £55k)

Unsold
A few others (including most 993) were passed as didn't meet reserve.

[355Chris355]

IMIA said:

Your post intimates that the bubble as you describe it is about to burst imminently. Whats your timescale? All markets go up and down.

In my mind we're at an inflection point. As demonstrated by the results at Silverstone auctions today.

[Crimp]

355Chris355 said:

Silverstone auctions today has brought some perspective to the Porsche market:

These are all hammer prices (13% extra with auction fees):

Good performers:
Porsche 996 GT2 £77k
Porsche 911 GT2 RS 997 £210k

Poor Performers
1972 Porsche 911 T Targa £34k (Guide £38k to £40k)
1968 Porsche 911 Coupe £42k (Guide £45k to £55k)

Unsold
A few others (including most 993) were passed as didn't meet reserve.

Put aside all the practical issues and the fact it may have killed me!
I do regret selling my 996 GT2, big mistake

[stichill99]

I wouldn't say that the 993;s were exactly the most desirable models on offer. 2 targas and a coupe but all with tiptronic gearboxes. If they had all been manual coupes and had failed to sell well then that may have meant something but don't think you can right the demise of the 993 yet!

[355Chris355]

Wow I didn't realise all three 993 had failed to sell.

True all Tiptronics but if they had of been manuals the initial guide prices would have been higher so it's hard to surmise what the bidding would have done.

[mollytherocker]

355Chris355 said:

Wow I didn't realise all three 993 had failed to sell.

True all Tiptronics but if they had of been manuals the initial guide prices would have been higher so it's hard to surmise what the bidding would have done.

The market wants manual coupes, it doesn't matter whether thats right or wrong, its just how it is.

[Wozy68]

mollytherocker said:

355Chris355 said:

Wow I didn't realise all three 993 had failed to sell.

True all Tiptronics but if they had of been manuals the initial guide prices would have been higher so it's hard to surmise what the bidding would have done.

The market wants manual coupes, it doesn't matter whether thats right or wrong, its just how it is.

This ^^^. The 993 hasn't gone north (in reasonable condition with reasonable/higher mileage) like the 3.2 or 964 has over the last 2 years, so no reason to think market peak. Very very few manual coupes come up for sale, especially under 35K.

[355Chris355]

mollytherocker said:

The market wants manual coupes, it doesn't matter whether thats right or wrong, its just how it is.

Indeed and that's why the guide price would be higher for a manual.

This auction indicates that either
(a) the guide price for Tiptronics was too high. I.e. The difference in price between a tiptronic and a manual has widened.

Or

(b) The difference between the two has remained the same and therefore a manual would have also struggled to reach it's higher guide price.

Remember that the price of a tiptronic is determined by how much an equivalent manual would be. I.e. It'll always be a set percentage less. Therefore point (b) seems more logical.

[mollytherocker]

355Chris355 said:

Indeed and that's why the guide price would be higher for a manual.

This auction indicates that either
(a) the guide price for Tiptronics was too high. I.e. The difference in price between a tiptronic and a manual has widened.

Or

(b) The difference between the two has remained the same and therefore a manual would have also struggled to reach it's higher guide price.

Remember that the price of a tiptronic is determined by how much an equivalent manual would be. I.e. It'll always be a set percentage less. Therefore point (b) seems more logical.

I cant really chaallenge your analysis, it is perfectly logical.

However, its hard to apply cold logic to whats happening. Its very emotional and irrational.

[Wozy68]

355Chris355 said:

(b) The difference between the two has remained the same and therefore a manual would have also struggled to reach it's higher guide price.

Remember that the price of a tiptronic is determined by how much an equivalent manual would be. I.e. It'll always be a set percentage less. Therefore point (b) seems more logical.

I'd have another think about your Point B matey.

http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-co...

[g7jhp]

Wozy68 said:

I'd have another think about your Point B matey.

http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-co...

One sale doesn't a market make (you just need one buyer who wants it bad enough).

If you see every manual 993 coupe going for £50k you have a case!

[Wozy68]

g7jhp said:

Wozy68 said:

I'd have another think about your Point B matey.

http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-co...

One sale doesn't a market make (you just need one buyer who wants it bad enough).

If you see every manual 993 coupe going for £50k you have a case!

Nor does one auction full of tiptronic 993s make a crash.

I actually wish prices of ALL aircooled would drop. 50K is serious money. I'd be gobsmacked if it drove any better than my 130K mile beauty.

[g7jhp]

Wozy68 said:

Nor does one auction full of tiptronic 993s make a crash.

I actually wish prices of ALL aircooled would drop. 50K is serious money. I'd be gobsmacked if it drove any better than my 130K mile beauty.

I'm with you. Fed up with the mad prices fancy something new but I'll take a chance and wait for a correction (if/when it arrives).

[IMIA]

g7jhp said:

Wozy68 said:

I'd have another think about your Point B matey.

http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-co...

One sale doesn't a market make (you just need one buyer who wants it bad enough).

If you see every manual 993 coupe going for £50k you have a case!

Every decent manual sensible miles 993 C2 with recognised Porsche specialist is selling for circa £50k within a few days? This one had 60k + miles. I think the 993 is still too cheap....

[bigunit00]

IMIA said:

Every decent manual sensible miles 993 C2 with recognised Porsche specialist is selling for circa £50k within a few days? This one had 60k + miles. I think the 993 is still too cheap....

Nice looking private sales still at mid 30's .........so why pay £50k?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

[IMIA]

bigunit00 said:

IMIA said:

Every decent manual sensible miles 993 C2 with recognised Porsche specialist is selling for circa £50k within a few days? This one had 60k + miles. I think the 993 is still too cheap....

Nice looking private sales still at mid 30's .........so why pay £50k?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Absolutely lovely but there's something about a genuine low miles car that these will never have.

[P50]

Wozy68 said:

355Chris355 said:

(b) The difference between the two has remained the same and therefore a manual would have also struggled to reach it's higher guide price.

Remember that the price of a tiptronic is determined by how much an equivalent manual would be. I.e. It'll always be a set percentage less. Therefore point (b) seems more logical.

I'd have another think about your Point B matey.

http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-co...

Prices seem to be shifting in front of our very eyes.

Wasn't £50k 2S money recently?

I suppose it's the 993 Turbo lifting the little boats too. I cannot understand why the 993TT is where it is. It has 4WD so aint no old skool beast in the purist sense.

When prices for porridge move so rapidly I fear we're in tulip territory..

[jfp]

355Chris355 said:

Silverstone auctions today has brought some perspective to the Porsche market:

These are all hammer prices (13% extra with auction fees):

Good performers:
Porsche 996 GT2 £77k
Porsche 911 GT2 RS 997 £210k

Poor Performers
1972 Porsche 911 T Targa £34k (Guide £38k to £40k)
1968 Porsche 911 Coupe £42k (Guide £45k to £55k)

Unsold
A few others (including most 993) were passed as didn't meet reserve.

Interesting summary. I think this is in line with reality. Rare GT2's fetching strong money due to them ticking just about every box there is. Dreary 993 tips trying to live off the success caused by other 911 derivatives. Let's face it, anything over £15k for the latter is daft. The bubble will burst and the overpriced mainstream stuff will drop, big time. And in that I'd include the 993 TT. Gt2's 3's RS's etc will I think stay where they rightly belong in terms of value and hence make great investments in enjoyment and financial terms. In most cases it comes down to the drive, and for me they just deliver....

[IMIA]

this looks perfect for a 90k mile car, I honestly think its worth it based on condition and stet my earlier comments about mileage when the car is in the sort of condition this is in

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=5964

[355Chris355]

Always rely on Cmoose for some critique.

The point you make about the GT2 is actually an important one.

In that auction the cream performed well (read GT2, GT2 RS, 348 Spider, Z8)

The more 'standard' Porsches and Ferraris performed relatively poorly either selling at bottom of guide price or going unsold.

Normally in a bubble the lessor models rise on the coat tails of the top models. There are signs at this auction that the buyers were only willing to back the Blue Chip investment grade supercars.

The lots are listed on the Silverstone auction website where each car has a page describing it.