More hype and plain silliness
Discussion
shoestring7 said:
Crimp said:
Within 2 yrs the 996 turbo will be worth more than a vanilla 964 wait and see.
The 4 star classic car looks good, I've dealt with these guys all cars SOR
No dealer is going to buy stock at the inflated prices of the current market. Last time I saw this was in 1989 when I worked for a dealer called the Paradise Garage, and the longer they kept a car on the floor the more money there was to be made on it....The 4 star classic car looks good, I've dealt with these guys all cars SOR
A mate is considering selling a '02 996C4 with 70k miles, nice options and everything done. I guess he'll get £15k for it if he's lucky - which is a rounding error in comparison with value of earlier 911s that are dynamically inferior in every respect.
SS7
I was speaking to the dealer I bought my 993 off 2 years ago about its value for insurance purposes and I mentioned that I saw he had been advertising 2 964 Carrera 2's ,one red and one white both manual. Just what we are led to believe is what is wanted. One car was up at £42950 and the other at £39950. He told me never had a phone call for 3 months,we might be up North but surely anyone would travel for a rare car. Then one day an investor phoned,flew in by helicopter and bought both.
What I am wondering is How close is supply and demand? We might not need many cars on the market for it to be over supplied.
What I am wondering is How close is supply and demand? We might not need many cars on the market for it to be over supplied.
stichill99 said:
I was speaking to the dealer I bought my 993 off 2 years ago about its value for insurance purposes and I mentioned that I saw he had been advertising 2 964 Carrera 2's ,one red and one white both manual. Just what we are led to believe is what is wanted. One car was up at £42950 and the other at £39950. He told me never had a phone call for 3 months,we might be up North but surely anyone would travel for a rare car. Then one day an investor phoned,flew in by helicopter and bought both.
What I am wondering is How close is supply and demand? We might not need many cars on the market for it to be over supplied.
Yes but simply stating two C2 manuals is not the whole story.What I am wondering is How close is supply and demand? We might not need many cars on the market for it to be over supplied.
Most cars are tired crap. Or not investment grade. A 12 owner 166,000mile C2 with rust/grotesque paint and nasty trashed back street trimmed interior, dodgy history, one grotty key and a chav stereo plus dropping oil in guards red is not an untouched 20k mile 2 owner car that is off the scale in rubystone.
The devil is in the detail. All this bubble drivel is heard mentality driven. We've been here before and it all royally ended in tears.
Rare but properly DESIRABLE stuff is good news. I would not be buying any 911 today for an investment as I think that ship has sailed and they are heavily over valued.
However I've recently bought a Messerschmitt TG500 Tiger. One of only 18 UK cars. Uber rare. So rare that there is NOT ONE FOR SALE ON THE PLANET. Google produces None/nisch/nadir/zero. Bit of a bummer if you want one. If you do you will have to pay and pay heavily for the privilege of being allowed to purchase one. Will be interesting in the next year or two as to what happens to classics but a Tiger made £210k in the States in 2013 so I bought what I thought was going to maybe perform. Mine raced in period and I have pics/docs etc from the day.
http://www.rmauctions.com/bw13/the-bruce-weiner-mi...
Edited by P50 on Saturday 18th July 22:46
P50 said:
bubble drivel
However I've recently bought a Messerschmitt TG500 Tiger. One of only 18 UK cars. Uber rare. So rare that there is NOT ONE FOR SALE ON THE PLANET. Google produces None/nisch/nadir/zero. Bit of a bummer if you want one. If you do you will have to pay and pay heavily for the privilege of being allowed to purchase one. Will be interesting in the next year or two as to what happens to classics but a Tiger made £210k in the States in 2013 so I bought what I thought was going to maybe perform.
http://www.rmauctions.com/bw13/the-bruce-weiner-mi...
Brave man. However I've recently bought a Messerschmitt TG500 Tiger. One of only 18 UK cars. Uber rare. So rare that there is NOT ONE FOR SALE ON THE PLANET. Google produces None/nisch/nadir/zero. Bit of a bummer if you want one. If you do you will have to pay and pay heavily for the privilege of being allowed to purchase one. Will be interesting in the next year or two as to what happens to classics but a Tiger made £210k in the States in 2013 so I bought what I thought was going to maybe perform.
http://www.rmauctions.com/bw13/the-bruce-weiner-mi...
Edited by P50 on Saturday 18th July 22:46
It's quite clear that the 993 is still being undervalued by most people-
here is a standard C2 tiptronic for sale at a very reasonable £79,950.
http://www.thesupercarrooms.co.uk/car-details/porc...
here is a standard C2 tiptronic for sale at a very reasonable £79,950.
http://www.thesupercarrooms.co.uk/car-details/porc...
Wow on the Messerschmitt.
When I was at school (1979 ish) I used to visit a friends farm to ride motocross bikes in various fields, his father had a large farm workshop with an Alvis and a collection of Messerschmitt's. I can't remember how many but more than 5. Of course I have no idea what models and they were not immaculate.
He died some years back, but his son is still around (and as crazy on a bike as ever), I must ask him what happened to them.
When I was at school (1979 ish) I used to visit a friends farm to ride motocross bikes in various fields, his father had a large farm workshop with an Alvis and a collection of Messerschmitt's. I can't remember how many but more than 5. Of course I have no idea what models and they were not immaculate.
He died some years back, but his son is still around (and as crazy on a bike as ever), I must ask him what happened to them.
david hockney said:
It's quite clear that the 993 is still being undervalued by most people-
here is a standard C2 tiptronic for sale at a very reasonable £79,950.
http://www.thesupercarrooms.co.uk/car-details/porc...
993 C2 with 25k miles, but it's Tip, 1995 so non-varioram, dark green and £80k! here is a standard C2 tiptronic for sale at a very reasonable £79,950.
http://www.thesupercarrooms.co.uk/car-details/porc...
I like 993s, but that's silly money for a Tip.
One of the cited reasons for the 'aircooled revival' is the greater engagement that these cars offer over contemporary models - with a lovely manual gearbox playing an important role, compared with the now ubiquitous PDK. So, a Tip is going to limit appeal.
Likewise with the 964s. This one has been in the classifieds for months without selling - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Surely the beauty of a 964 is it's purity and simplicity - ideally an original C2, Coupe, manual, narrow body? This is a fat bodied, Cab, Tip with what looks like some aftermarket bits. Yet, the price has been increased overnight by £11k - yesterday it was £53k.
Not my taste at all, but just shows how crazy the market is at the moment.
One of the cited reasons for the 'aircooled revival' is the greater engagement that these cars offer over contemporary models - with a lovely manual gearbox playing an important role, compared with the now ubiquitous PDK. So, a Tip is going to limit appeal.
Likewise with the 964s. This one has been in the classifieds for months without selling - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Surely the beauty of a 964 is it's purity and simplicity - ideally an original C2, Coupe, manual, narrow body? This is a fat bodied, Cab, Tip with what looks like some aftermarket bits. Yet, the price has been increased overnight by £11k - yesterday it was £53k.
Not my taste at all, but just shows how crazy the market is at the moment.
Koln-RS said:
Likewise with the 964s. This one has been in the classifieds for months without selling - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Surely the beauty of a 964 is it's purity and simplicity - ideally an original C2, Coupe, manual, narrow body? This is a fat bodied, Cab, Tip with what looks like some aftermarket bits. Yet, the price has been increased overnight by £11k - yesterday it was £53k.
Not my taste at all, but just shows how crazy the market is at the moment.
Just another stealer chancing their luck.Surely the beauty of a 964 is it's purity and simplicity - ideally an original C2, Coupe, manual, narrow body? This is a fat bodied, Cab, Tip with what looks like some aftermarket bits. Yet, the price has been increased overnight by £11k - yesterday it was £53k.
Not my taste at all, but just shows how crazy the market is at the moment.
If that sells I'd have no sympathy for the buyer who would have a taste and sense bypass!
P50 said:
Yes but simply stating two C2 manuals is not the whole story.
Most cars are tired crap. Or not investment grade. A 12 owner 166,000mile C2 with rust/grotesque paint and nasty trashed back street trimmed interior, dodgy history, one grotty key and a chav stereo plus dropping oil in guards red is not an untouched 20k mile 2 owner car that is off the scale in rubystone.
The devil is in the detail. All this bubble drivel is heard mentality driven. We've been here before and it all royally ended in tears.
Rare but properly DESIRABLE stuff is good news. I would not be buying any 911 today for an investment as I think that ship has sailed and they are heavily over valued.
However I've recently bought a Messerschmitt TG500 Tiger. One of only 18 UK cars. Uber rare. So rare that there is NOT ONE FOR SALE ON THE PLANET. Google produces None/nisch/nadir/zero. Bit of a bummer if you want one. If you do you will have to pay and pay heavily for the privilege of being allowed to purchase one. Will be interesting in the next year or two as to what happens to classics but a Tiger made £210k in the States in 2013 so I bought what I thought was going to maybe perform. Mine raced in period and I have pics/docs etc from the day.
http://www.rmauctions.com/bw13/the-bruce-weiner-mi...
They are uber rare for a reason though. Most cars are tired crap. Or not investment grade. A 12 owner 166,000mile C2 with rust/grotesque paint and nasty trashed back street trimmed interior, dodgy history, one grotty key and a chav stereo plus dropping oil in guards red is not an untouched 20k mile 2 owner car that is off the scale in rubystone.
The devil is in the detail. All this bubble drivel is heard mentality driven. We've been here before and it all royally ended in tears.
Rare but properly DESIRABLE stuff is good news. I would not be buying any 911 today for an investment as I think that ship has sailed and they are heavily over valued.
However I've recently bought a Messerschmitt TG500 Tiger. One of only 18 UK cars. Uber rare. So rare that there is NOT ONE FOR SALE ON THE PLANET. Google produces None/nisch/nadir/zero. Bit of a bummer if you want one. If you do you will have to pay and pay heavily for the privilege of being allowed to purchase one. Will be interesting in the next year or two as to what happens to classics but a Tiger made £210k in the States in 2013 so I bought what I thought was going to maybe perform. Mine raced in period and I have pics/docs etc from the day.
http://www.rmauctions.com/bw13/the-bruce-weiner-mi...
Edited by P50 on Saturday 18th July 22:46
Hope it works out for you, but does nothing for me - either as an investment, or something I would like to own.
drmark said:
They are uber rare for a reason though.
Hope it works out for you, but does nothing for me - either as an investment, or something I would like to own.
Each to their own dear boy. I could have bought a multitude of stunning machinery for what I gave. I've had many left field machines over the years and have done rather well truth be known..Hope it works out for you, but does nothing for me - either as an investment, or something I would like to own.
The prices of air-cooled porsche's is certainly an interesting one. I can understand to a degree them going up, it's a real driving experience which is getting rare these days, but to the degree we are seeing surely thats not on.
I have had a couple of 3.2 and they make great cars to use and have as weekend cars but always the real appeal was the everyday usability which is still there but at the current values probably makes you think twice at using it for work, for me the air-cooled porsche thing has sailed, fantastic value at 10-20k for a really practical classic but at £30+ for an average ish one it doesn't stack up.
Surely a 996 or 997.1 now fits much better into the traditional Porsche appeal, a good useable classic between £10-20k that might cost you a bit if something goes wrong (especially the engine) but by and large a much cheaper and better deal than an italian money muncher......
I think better to leave the air-cooled 911 to the investors and hope the values do come down to a level where you can buy and use but i suspect not.........
I have had a couple of 3.2 and they make great cars to use and have as weekend cars but always the real appeal was the everyday usability which is still there but at the current values probably makes you think twice at using it for work, for me the air-cooled porsche thing has sailed, fantastic value at 10-20k for a really practical classic but at £30+ for an average ish one it doesn't stack up.
Surely a 996 or 997.1 now fits much better into the traditional Porsche appeal, a good useable classic between £10-20k that might cost you a bit if something goes wrong (especially the engine) but by and large a much cheaper and better deal than an italian money muncher......
I think better to leave the air-cooled 911 to the investors and hope the values do come down to a level where you can buy and use but i suspect not.........
YoungMD said:
Surely a 996 or 997.1 now fits much better into the traditional Porsche appeal, a good useable classic between £10-20k that might cost you a bit if something goes wrong (especially the engine) but by and large a much cheaper and better deal than an italian money muncher......
I think better to leave the air-cooled 911 to the investors and hope the values do come down to a level where you can buy and use but i suspect not.........
I agree in the most part but if you close your eyes driving a 997 or 996 after driving an air cooled you could be driving any modern sports saloon imoI think better to leave the air-cooled 911 to the investors and hope the values do come down to a level where you can buy and use but i suspect not.........
drmark said:
IMI A said:
Enjoy
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