930 Turbo…..The search begins !!
Discussion
I haven't posted in quite some time but would appreciate thoughts and guidance on the following.
Having owned a 993 C4S for a few years in the past which is now owned by a regular poster on the Porsche Forum, I am now on the look out for another Porsche in the form of a 930 Turbo.
I know its a minefield out there and one where people can very easily be severely burned if the wrong choice is made.
I have been perusing the Porsche Classic Forum with interest and think I have trawled the websites where most if not all the 930 Turbos are for sale in the UK.
I live in Scotland and have no problem travelling the length of the UK for the right car.
I would intend having a specialist carry out a report prior to purchase as I have done in the past.
I am leaning towards a Cabriolet if possible as my intention will be to use around 1500-2000 miles per year and mostly for weekend or sunny evening runs.
On saying that I know I should not limit myself to a Cab and should pick the best I can get taking into account condition, mileage, price, colour, whether it be Coupe, Cab or Targa,
My dream car would be a G50 Cabriolet in red with full history and moderate miles, but I know I could wait a long time to achieve this so a compromise will likely be required.
I would appreciate opinions on the 4 speed v 5 speed G50 gearbox, common problem areas to look out for ? Is a coupe more desirable than the Cab/Targa or is it purely personal preference.
I intend this to be a long term keeper and although I don't expect it to perhaps shoot up in price it would be nice to know that is not going to plummet.
When I sold the 993 C4S, I bought Ferrari F355 Berlinetta which I still own and intend keeping for years to come, I do an average of 2000 miles a year with it and the apparent appreciation in value has more than covered running and service costs to date.
If the 930 were to do similar or even hold its value the would be a great result although the prime reason for buying would be the enjoyment of ownership and not investment.
Apologies if this subject has been covered already but constructive feedback is very welcome
Many thanks in advance
Charlie
Having owned a 993 C4S for a few years in the past which is now owned by a regular poster on the Porsche Forum, I am now on the look out for another Porsche in the form of a 930 Turbo.
I know its a minefield out there and one where people can very easily be severely burned if the wrong choice is made.
I have been perusing the Porsche Classic Forum with interest and think I have trawled the websites where most if not all the 930 Turbos are for sale in the UK.
I live in Scotland and have no problem travelling the length of the UK for the right car.
I would intend having a specialist carry out a report prior to purchase as I have done in the past.
I am leaning towards a Cabriolet if possible as my intention will be to use around 1500-2000 miles per year and mostly for weekend or sunny evening runs.
On saying that I know I should not limit myself to a Cab and should pick the best I can get taking into account condition, mileage, price, colour, whether it be Coupe, Cab or Targa,
My dream car would be a G50 Cabriolet in red with full history and moderate miles, but I know I could wait a long time to achieve this so a compromise will likely be required.
I would appreciate opinions on the 4 speed v 5 speed G50 gearbox, common problem areas to look out for ? Is a coupe more desirable than the Cab/Targa or is it purely personal preference.
I intend this to be a long term keeper and although I don't expect it to perhaps shoot up in price it would be nice to know that is not going to plummet.
When I sold the 993 C4S, I bought Ferrari F355 Berlinetta which I still own and intend keeping for years to come, I do an average of 2000 miles a year with it and the apparent appreciation in value has more than covered running and service costs to date.
If the 930 were to do similar or even hold its value the would be a great result although the prime reason for buying would be the enjoyment of ownership and not investment.
Apologies if this subject has been covered already but constructive feedback is very welcome
Many thanks in advance
Charlie
I owned a 1988 930 Turbo which was completely epic, 4 speed - turbo lag was brutal but clearly from a classic perspective a great car and an itch to scratch so to speak. I bought and sold for £20k which was what they traded for in 2006-7.
Plenty of better cars out there for the huge prices they command these days.....
Plenty of better cars out there for the huge prices they command these days.....
The coupe is far more desirable and a much better bet in terms of capital appreciation. I wouldn't be put off by a 4 speed vs 5 speed turbo as the 4 speed box suits the car well. For high days in the Summer I personally think a cab would be fantastic. Personally I'd go for a G50 Carrera as I think they are a better drive - you can get a wide body Carrera cab too as you're probably aware.
From an investment perspective the white JZM turbo is he one to go for but I do not think its worth more than £85k. Its stunning though.
From an investment perspective the white JZM turbo is he one to go for but I do not think its worth more than £85k. Its stunning though.
CGF993 said:
I intend this to be a long term keeper and although I don't expect it to perhaps shoot up in price it would be nice to know that is not going to plummet.
You'll need a crystal ball for long term, but 930 turbo are currently on a high. Personally I'd wait for a correction, others will disagree. The jzm car is a stunner, the price is high, but someone will find it too difficult to resist sooner or later! All 930's are great cars, have you thought about an early car? There is a nice 79 going to auction soon at the classic car show in Birmingham. Whatever you go for, you will love it!
The JZM Turbo is a bit more than I would like to pay but agree its a stunning car.
What about the white 930 Turbo Cab at Hexagon ??
Regarding waiting for a correction in the values, I know this is another hot topic and I'm not convinced they will drop back too much, I guess the intention of being a long term keeper will smooth out the ups and downs.
If I wait over the winter only to find the value is still holding up well then it will be wasted time but I appreciate what your saying thank you.
Appreciate the replies gents
Charlie
What about the white 930 Turbo Cab at Hexagon ??
Regarding waiting for a correction in the values, I know this is another hot topic and I'm not convinced they will drop back too much, I guess the intention of being a long term keeper will smooth out the ups and downs.
If I wait over the winter only to find the value is still holding up well then it will be wasted time but I appreciate what your saying thank you.
Appreciate the replies gents
Charlie
estacion said:
The jzm car is a stunner, the price is high, but someone will find it too difficult to resist sooner or later! All 930's are great cars, have you thought about an early car? There is a nice 79 going to auction soon at the classic car show in Birmingham. Whatever you go for, you will love it!
Thanks Estacion, I would like to get as late a model as possible and if not a G50 1989 model then an 1987/88 4 speed would be my next choice.Im not sure about an auction as I would like to view a car first, the have an independant specialist carry out a report which takes time and wouldn't feel comfortable going the auction route but thats just me.
Regards
Charlie
Cabs aren't the investment car to own. Tomorrow a 1979 Turbo is on the block at Anglia Car Auctions; priced well, had some money spent on it, will be over estimate I think.
IMHO the age of the car isn't so important when it comes to these, although clearly the last cars drive better than the first. I'd have a '75 with tartan, chrome trim, intercooler spoiler and Durrants.
IMHO the age of the car isn't so important when it comes to these, although clearly the last cars drive better than the first. I'd have a '75 with tartan, chrome trim, intercooler spoiler and Durrants.
CGF993 said:
I haven't posted in quite some time but would appreciate thoughts and guidance on the following.
Having owned a 993 C4S for a few years in the past which is now owned by a regular poster on the Porsche Forum, I am now on the look out for another Porsche in the form of a 930 Turbo.
I know its a minefield out there and one where people can very easily be severely burned if the wrong choice is made.
I have been perusing the Porsche Classic Forum with interest and think I have trawled the websites where most if not all the 930 Turbos are for sale in the UK.
I live in Scotland and have no problem travelling the length of the UK for the right car.
I would intend having a specialist carry out a report prior to purchase as I have done in the past.
I am leaning towards a Cabriolet if possible as my intention will be to use around 1500-2000 miles per year and mostly for weekend or sunny evening runs.
On saying that I know I should not limit myself to a Cab and should pick the best I can get taking into account condition, mileage, price, colour, whether it be Coupe, Cab or Targa,
My dream car would be a G50 Cabriolet in red with full history and moderate miles, but I know I could wait a long time to achieve this so a compromise will likely be required.
I would appreciate opinions on the 4 speed v 5 speed G50 gearbox, common problem areas to look out for ? Is a coupe more desirable than the Cab/Targa or is it purely personal preference.
I intend this to be a long term keeper and although I don't expect it to perhaps shoot up in price it would be nice to know that is not going to plummet.
When I sold the 993 C4S, I bought Ferrari F355 Berlinetta which I still own and intend keeping for years to come, I do an average of 2000 miles a year with it and the apparent appreciation in value has more than covered running and service costs to date.
If the 930 were to do similar or even hold its value the would be a great result although the prime reason for buying would be the enjoyment of ownership and not investment.
Apologies if this subject has been covered already but constructive feedback is very welcome
Many thanks in advance
Charlie
CharlieHaving owned a 993 C4S for a few years in the past which is now owned by a regular poster on the Porsche Forum, I am now on the look out for another Porsche in the form of a 930 Turbo.
I know its a minefield out there and one where people can very easily be severely burned if the wrong choice is made.
I have been perusing the Porsche Classic Forum with interest and think I have trawled the websites where most if not all the 930 Turbos are for sale in the UK.
I live in Scotland and have no problem travelling the length of the UK for the right car.
I would intend having a specialist carry out a report prior to purchase as I have done in the past.
I am leaning towards a Cabriolet if possible as my intention will be to use around 1500-2000 miles per year and mostly for weekend or sunny evening runs.
On saying that I know I should not limit myself to a Cab and should pick the best I can get taking into account condition, mileage, price, colour, whether it be Coupe, Cab or Targa,
My dream car would be a G50 Cabriolet in red with full history and moderate miles, but I know I could wait a long time to achieve this so a compromise will likely be required.
I would appreciate opinions on the 4 speed v 5 speed G50 gearbox, common problem areas to look out for ? Is a coupe more desirable than the Cab/Targa or is it purely personal preference.
I intend this to be a long term keeper and although I don't expect it to perhaps shoot up in price it would be nice to know that is not going to plummet.
When I sold the 993 C4S, I bought Ferrari F355 Berlinetta which I still own and intend keeping for years to come, I do an average of 2000 miles a year with it and the apparent appreciation in value has more than covered running and service costs to date.
If the 930 were to do similar or even hold its value the would be a great result although the prime reason for buying would be the enjoyment of ownership and not investment.
Apologies if this subject has been covered already but constructive feedback is very welcome
Many thanks in advance
Charlie
First off the car is a 930 or 911 Turbo, not a 930 turbo. That sounds picky maybe but 930 turbo means "911 turbo turbo" and one turbo is enough for these, trust me!
Secondly, have you ever driven one? They look better than they drive. I had one for several years and at the same time had a 911SC which had suffered a "turbo look" conversion. The SC drove far better. Others on this site have had them and have said much the same.
Thirdly I am not sure they are worth what they are changing hands for now. In fact I know they aren't. Will the market correct? Who knows.
Fourthly finding a genuinely good one will require top end spending or kissing a lot of frogs. There is more bulls
t spoken by 930 sellers than any other car in my experience.Fifthly, good luck!
Hi Charlie
There are so many opinions out there, and routes to take regarding ownership of old cars,that if you try to take them all in to account you would never get anywhere!
My own experience of air cooled Porsche ownership is briefly as follows.
I purchased a reasonably low mileage 993 cabrio with fsh.
Car was in good nick & nice colour scheme etc.
I spent a fortune with main dealer servicing etc.and tried to keep the mileage down by using my other vehicles.
Sold it for about 2/3rds of what I paid for it.
I do not think the service history or mileage made a huge difference to the price when I came to sell it on.
I had a fair bit of trouble with the motorised roof operation,which really got me down,especially after I paid quite a lot of money to get it re-covered,but I still regret selling it.
I now own a 1989 930, which has the G50/50 gearbox.
It is a black coupe.
It has roughly 150K on the clock
The service history prior to my ownwership is reasonable,but looks like the car was laid up for about 5/6 years.
I did not spend a fortune to buy it.
I enjoy working on cars myself & have rebuilt the engine & gearbox as well as uprating the suspension & some performance modifications.
I think its a great car,I have spent less money on it than I spent restoring a 1970 MGB GT,which I sold recently at a loss of about £6K even though I picked it up for next to nothing!
With regards to turbo lag,I would say the 5 speed box helps with the extra gear, but if you are not hung up on keeping it original,there are ways to reduce the lag by fitting a more efficient turbocharger, which will spool up quicker,with a small trade off in top end.
Also a sports exhaust will give an improvement, as the stock system takes a tour around the engine bay before it gets to the turbocharger!
The recirc. system can also be improved.
Because mine has fairly high mileage & I havn't spent a lot on it,I honsetly don't worry about using it or whether it going up or down in value.
I took it around the circuit at the Le mans classic this year, with my eldest son & I taking turns driving, and that is a memory you cannot put a price on.
Basically I think you have to decide what you want and how much you can or want to spend.
All the best
Terry
There are so many opinions out there, and routes to take regarding ownership of old cars,that if you try to take them all in to account you would never get anywhere!
My own experience of air cooled Porsche ownership is briefly as follows.
I purchased a reasonably low mileage 993 cabrio with fsh.
Car was in good nick & nice colour scheme etc.
I spent a fortune with main dealer servicing etc.and tried to keep the mileage down by using my other vehicles.
Sold it for about 2/3rds of what I paid for it.
I do not think the service history or mileage made a huge difference to the price when I came to sell it on.
I had a fair bit of trouble with the motorised roof operation,which really got me down,especially after I paid quite a lot of money to get it re-covered,but I still regret selling it.
I now own a 1989 930, which has the G50/50 gearbox.
It is a black coupe.
It has roughly 150K on the clock
The service history prior to my ownwership is reasonable,but looks like the car was laid up for about 5/6 years.
I did not spend a fortune to buy it.
I enjoy working on cars myself & have rebuilt the engine & gearbox as well as uprating the suspension & some performance modifications.
I think its a great car,I have spent less money on it than I spent restoring a 1970 MGB GT,which I sold recently at a loss of about £6K even though I picked it up for next to nothing!
With regards to turbo lag,I would say the 5 speed box helps with the extra gear, but if you are not hung up on keeping it original,there are ways to reduce the lag by fitting a more efficient turbocharger, which will spool up quicker,with a small trade off in top end.
Also a sports exhaust will give an improvement, as the stock system takes a tour around the engine bay before it gets to the turbocharger!
The recirc. system can also be improved.
Because mine has fairly high mileage & I havn't spent a lot on it,I honsetly don't worry about using it or whether it going up or down in value.
I took it around the circuit at the Le mans classic this year, with my eldest son & I taking turns driving, and that is a memory you cannot put a price on.
Basically I think you have to decide what you want and how much you can or want to spend.
All the best
Terry
tel l said:
Hi Charlie
There are so many opinions out there, and routes to take regarding ownership of old cars,that if you try to take them all in to account you would never get anywhere!
My own experience of air cooled Porsche ownership is briefly as follows.
I purchased a reasonably low mileage 993 cabrio with fsh.
Car was in good nick & nice colour scheme etc.
I spent a fortune with main dealer servicing etc.and tried to keep the mileage down by using my other vehicles.
Sold it for about 2/3rds of what I paid for it.
I do not think the service history or mileage made a huge difference to the price when I came to sell it on.
I had a fair bit of trouble with the motorised roof operation,which really got me down,especially after I paid quite a lot of money to get it re-covered,but I still regret selling it.
I now own a 1989 930, which has the G50/50 gearbox.
It is a black coupe.
It has roughly 150K on the clock
The service history prior to my ownwership is reasonable,but looks like the car was laid up for about 5/6 years.
I did not spend a fortune to buy it.
I enjoy working on cars myself & have rebuilt the engine & gearbox as well as uprating the suspension & some performance modifications.
I think its a great car,I have spent less money on it than I spent restoring a 1970 MGB GT,which I sold recently at a loss of about £6K even though I picked it up for next to nothing!
With regards to turbo lag,I would say the 5 speed box helps with the extra gear, but if you are not hung up on keeping it original,there are ways to reduce the lag by fitting a more efficient turbocharger, which will spool up quicker,with a small trade off in top end.
Also a sports exhaust will give an improvement, as the stock system takes a tour around the engine bay before it gets to the turbocharger!
The recirc. system can also be improved.
Because mine has fairly high mileage & I havn't spent a lot on it,I honsetly don't worry about using it or whether it going up or down in value.
I took it around the circuit at the Le mans classic this year, with my eldest son & I taking turns driving, and that is a memory you cannot put a price on.
Basically I think you have to decide what you want and how much you can or want to spend.
All the best
Terry
Regarding selling your 993 for 2/3rds of what you paid for it- how long did you have it and what year did you sell it? I thought 993's have been steadily increasing in value in recent years........There are so many opinions out there, and routes to take regarding ownership of old cars,that if you try to take them all in to account you would never get anywhere!
My own experience of air cooled Porsche ownership is briefly as follows.
I purchased a reasonably low mileage 993 cabrio with fsh.
Car was in good nick & nice colour scheme etc.
I spent a fortune with main dealer servicing etc.and tried to keep the mileage down by using my other vehicles.
Sold it for about 2/3rds of what I paid for it.
I do not think the service history or mileage made a huge difference to the price when I came to sell it on.
I had a fair bit of trouble with the motorised roof operation,which really got me down,especially after I paid quite a lot of money to get it re-covered,but I still regret selling it.
I now own a 1989 930, which has the G50/50 gearbox.
It is a black coupe.
It has roughly 150K on the clock
The service history prior to my ownwership is reasonable,but looks like the car was laid up for about 5/6 years.
I did not spend a fortune to buy it.
I enjoy working on cars myself & have rebuilt the engine & gearbox as well as uprating the suspension & some performance modifications.
I think its a great car,I have spent less money on it than I spent restoring a 1970 MGB GT,which I sold recently at a loss of about £6K even though I picked it up for next to nothing!
With regards to turbo lag,I would say the 5 speed box helps with the extra gear, but if you are not hung up on keeping it original,there are ways to reduce the lag by fitting a more efficient turbocharger, which will spool up quicker,with a small trade off in top end.
Also a sports exhaust will give an improvement, as the stock system takes a tour around the engine bay before it gets to the turbocharger!
The recirc. system can also be improved.
Because mine has fairly high mileage & I havn't spent a lot on it,I honsetly don't worry about using it or whether it going up or down in value.
I took it around the circuit at the Le mans classic this year, with my eldest son & I taking turns driving, and that is a memory you cannot put a price on.
Basically I think you have to decide what you want and how much you can or want to spend.
All the best
Terry
david hockney said:
Regarding selling your 993 for 2/3rds of what you paid for it- how long did you have it and what year did you sell it? I thought 993's have been steadily increasing in value in recent years........
Just going from memory it was around 4 years ago.Like everything at the time I think classics were a victim of the recession.
I'm sure I could have got more if I tried, but I'm not very good at waiting once I decide to do something!
The point I was trying to make is a 24k mile service cost me best part of a grand at OPC
Then theres brake fluid change etc.etc.
I probably spent £7k plus on the car in around 3/4 years, which is ok,I'm just not sure the resale price reflects this.
Garages know FSH is important to many owners/buyers and the prices they charge reflect this.
Just my humble opinion based on my experience of buying & selling cars with and without good history & high & low mileage.
Being an ordinary working man in a job paying a modest wage,I try to enjoy classic car ownership within my budget.
In the words of the great Muddy Waters "you can't spend what you ain't got"
I know what you are saying with regards to OPC costs etc- extortionate.
Many air cooled owners bang on with satisfaction about how much their car has increased in
value-which is fine if the car is locked away unused-but if you service and maintain a 993
properly it's cost wipes out any annual increase in value should you sell expecting a profit.
Obviously though still far better residuals than most cars which lose money all ways.
david hockney said:
I know what you are saying with regards to OPC costs etc- extortionate.
Many air cooled owners bang on with satisfaction about how much their car has increased in
value-which is fine if the car is locked away unused-but if you service and maintain a 993
properly it's cost wipes out any annual increase in value should you sell expecting a profit.
Obviously though still far better residuals than most cars which lose money all ways.
Totally agree & would not hesitate to get anotherMany air cooled owners bang on with satisfaction about how much their car has increased in
value-which is fine if the car is locked away unused-but if you service and maintain a 993
properly it's cost wipes out any annual increase in value should you sell expecting a profit.
Obviously though still far better residuals than most cars which lose money all ways.
david hockney said:
I know what you are saying with regards to OPC costs etc- extortionate.
Many air cooled owners bang on with satisfaction about how much their car has increased in
value-which is fine if the car is locked away unused-but if you service and maintain a 993
properly it's cost wipes out any annual increase in value should you sell expecting a profit.
Obviously though still far better residuals than most cars which lose money all ways.
5 or 6 years ago it was all about buying a car that didn't depreciate, not about buying a car with the expectation it would appreciate. I still buy my cars on that basis.if they appreciate, that's just the icing on the cake.Many air cooled owners bang on with satisfaction about how much their car has increased in
value-which is fine if the car is locked away unused-but if you service and maintain a 993
properly it's cost wipes out any annual increase in value should you sell expecting a profit.
Obviously though still far better residuals than most cars which lose money all ways.
Eleven said:
Charlie
First off the car is a 930 or 911 Turbo, not a 930 turbo. That sounds picky maybe but 930 turbo means "911 turbo turbo" and one turbo is enough for these, trust me!
Secondly, have you ever driven one? They look better than they drive. I had one for several years and at the same time had a 911SC which had suffered a "turbo look" conversion. The SC drove far better. Others on this site have had them and have said much the same.
Thirdly I am not sure they are worth what they are changing hands for now. In fact I know they aren't. Will the market correct? Who knows.
Fourthly finding a genuinely good one will require top end spending or kissing a lot of frogs. There is more bullst spoken by 930 sellers than any other car in my experience.
Fifthly, good luck!
First off the car is a 930 or 911 Turbo, not a 930 turbo. That sounds picky maybe but 930 turbo means "911 turbo turbo" and one turbo is enough for these, trust me!
Secondly, have you ever driven one? They look better than they drive. I had one for several years and at the same time had a 911SC which had suffered a "turbo look" conversion. The SC drove far better. Others on this site have had them and have said much the same.
Thirdly I am not sure they are worth what they are changing hands for now. In fact I know they aren't. Will the market correct? Who knows.
Fourthly finding a genuinely good one will require top end spending or kissing a lot of frogs. There is more bulls
t spoken by 930 sellers than any other car in my experience.Fifthly, good luck!
If you've considered a Cabriolet and Supersport, why not look at a 911 Speedster?
Limited number, unique look, mechanically simple (compared to a turbo).
Limited number, unique look, mechanically simple (compared to a turbo).
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