Why have 964's grown in popularity?
Discussion
Great looking
Great handling with suspension tweaks
Lovely torquey motor with relatively precise short throw gearbox
Were great value for money!
I asked the question of the forum, when I bought mine nearly 5 years ago, why the car had bad press. From memory the only negative replies were relating to oil leaks of which my car had none as this work had been carried out.
Mine is a targa which some people would sniff at but I don't intend to track the car so the option of wind in the hair motoring really did appeal. I paid less than half its current value for a lovely sorted car - one which I would struggle to justify buying at today's inflated prices.
Great handling with suspension tweaks
Lovely torquey motor with relatively precise short throw gearbox
Were great value for money!
I asked the question of the forum, when I bought mine nearly 5 years ago, why the car had bad press. From memory the only negative replies were relating to oil leaks of which my car had none as this work had been carried out.
Mine is a targa which some people would sniff at but I don't intend to track the car so the option of wind in the hair motoring really did appeal. I paid less than half its current value for a lovely sorted car - one which I would struggle to justify buying at today's inflated prices.
I think people were scared of the oil leaks and they went far too low. I can remember seeing lovely ones for 12k.
The 993 was the darling due to its many improvements over the 964, and kicked it whilst it was down.
And then about 3 years ago, the market woke up and there was a speedy correction to 20k.
Since then its been up all the way as many enthusiast have realised that they dont actually want a new 190mph car that drives itself.
The 993 was the darling due to its many improvements over the 964, and kicked it whilst it was down.
And then about 3 years ago, the market woke up and there was a speedy correction to 20k.
Since then its been up all the way as many enthusiast have realised that they dont actually want a new 190mph car that drives itself.
Probably the most versatile Aircooled 911 you can buy whilst still maintaining everyday use.
Add an engine upgrade plus suspension mods you've got a great little classic car.
911Viking on here has a supercharged one that chases down gt3's at Spa for example, not cheap but no doubt huge fun. Also there is an great online community with 964's on FB with the L90 guys and a separate 964 community that consists of 11k members worldwide you can see why it adds to the appeal.
They will never be the cheapest 911's to run/own but from an enthusiasts point of view with the points raised above they are great fun
Add an engine upgrade plus suspension mods you've got a great little classic car.
911Viking on here has a supercharged one that chases down gt3's at Spa for example, not cheap but no doubt huge fun. Also there is an great online community with 964's on FB with the L90 guys and a separate 964 community that consists of 11k members worldwide you can see why it adds to the appeal.
They will never be the cheapest 911's to run/own but from an enthusiasts point of view with the points raised above they are great fun
northo said:
It would probably be handy to hear from people who aren't fans!
I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
Will the 997 suffer from the same fate given the bad press it's had re the engines lunching themselves?
Not nearly a classic. Different prospect entirely I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
Will the 997 suffer from the same fate given the bad press it's had re the engines lunching themselves?
mollytherocker said:
The 993 was the darling due to its many improvements over the 964.
The last point has always been true though hasn't it. My personal opinion is that many preferred the 964 for its looks as it still has that clean narrow body look that traces right back to the start (but with big PU bumper covers). The 993 has always been a polarising looking car its just that there was a time when this didn't effect values relative to earlier cars. All IMHO of course.I would also add that this lot have a huge amount to do with the recent interest...
singervehicledesign.com
These things are simply stunning and while you need deep pockets for one I would guess (as I have done) people look at what can be done and are looking at buying up 964's to 'resto-mod' to a budget. I've often though you could achieve a percentage of what Singer have done (minus carbon body - blah blah) to a 'X' budget and have a cost effective classic / cool / handsome car...
Would be a cool project car for sure...
singervehicledesign.com
These things are simply stunning and while you need deep pockets for one I would guess (as I have done) people look at what can be done and are looking at buying up 964's to 'resto-mod' to a budget. I've often though you could achieve a percentage of what Singer have done (minus carbon body - blah blah) to a 'X' budget and have a cost effective classic / cool / handsome car...
Would be a cool project car for sure...
northo said:
It would probably be handy to hear from people who aren't fans!
I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
I'm not a fan. I always asked myself if I had paid near 50K for my late model 964 C2 back in 92, would I have thought it worth the cost. IMO the answer was always no. To me they deservedly were a poor man’s 911 Porsche (of which I was one) 10 years ago.I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
Mine was a 92 (and a proper 92 at that) model C2 manual with <50K miles on the clock, which I owned from 2004 - 05. It had fantastic spec and today would I guess be well north of 45K to replace.
I always felt the car was too heavy, the 993 I own now is actually heavier, but for the advancements of the 964 compared to earlier models they did little at the rear and to me at least I felt the car was always on a mission to throw me straight into the nearest ditch ...... to which it eventually did. IMO the 993 was not just the next model but an absolute massive leap in driving pleasure especially on unknown roads.
The biggest let down with the 964 was in the NVH department. It must be remembered the 964 was not designed just as an out and out sports car, but as much of a sporting GT. You hear a lot about the 964 being the last true 911 and the 993 too civilised, what utter pants. The 964 was a noisy car within the cabin and over cats eyes and potholes it was very poor for a modern (at the time) car. You can take the civility out of a 993, you can't add it to a 964. To me the last true out and out 911 sports car was the 2.4S or maybe the 964RS.
This is not meant to be a 964 v 993 debate though I can see it seems it, I've also owned a 2.7 and 3.2 (x2) and loved all my past 911s, but unfortunately for me the 964 the least. If I was in the market at the moment, I'd look at a great serviced, higher mileage 993. Bit of a bargain IMO at the moment compared to the 964.
Wozy68 said:
northo said:
It would probably be handy to hear from people who aren't fans!
I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
I'm not a fan. I always asked myself if I had paid near 50K for my late model 964 C2 back in 92, would I have thought it worth the cost. IMO the answer was always no. To me they deservedly were a poor man’s 911 Porsche (of which I was one) 10 years ago.I agree - what's not to like - but there is no doubt that in the past many people found something...
Mine was a 92 (and a proper 92 at that) model C2 manual with <50K miles on the clock, which I owned from 2004 - 05. It had fantastic spec and today would I guess be well north of 45K to replace.
I always felt the car was too heavy, the 993 I own now is actually heavier, but for the advancements of the 964 compared to earlier models they did little at the rear and to me at least I felt the car was always on a mission to throw me straight into the nearest ditch ...... to which it eventually did. IMO the 993 was not just the next model but an absolute massive leap in driving pleasure especially on unknown roads.
The biggest let down with the 964 was in the NVH department. It must be remembered the 964 was not designed just as an out and out sports car, but as much of a sporting GT. You hear a lot about the 964 being the last true 911 and the 993 too civilised, what utter pants. The 964 was a noisy car within the cabin and over cats eyes and potholes it was very poor for a modern (at the time) car. You can take the civility out of a 993, you can't add it to a 964. To me the last true out and out 911 sports car was the 2.4S or maybe the 964RS.
This is not meant to be a 964 v 993 debate though I can see it seems it, I've also owned a 2.7 and 3.2 (x2) and loved all my past 911s, but unfortunately for me the 964 the least. If I was in the market at the moment, I'd look at a great serviced, higher mileage 993. Bit of a bargain IMO at the moment compared to the 964.
Wozy68 said:
This is not meant to be a 964 v 993 debate though I can see it seems it, I've also owned a 2.7 and 3.2 (x2) and loved all my past 911s, but unfortunately for me the 964 the least. If I was in the market at the moment, I'd look at a great serviced, higher mileage 993. Bit of a bargain IMO at the moment compared to the 964.
Where do we find these 993 bargains? The cheapest manual C2 coupe I can find in the PH classifieds is £33K for one in a horrible colour:http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
The next cheapest is £45K. 993s are nice cars but not what I would call bargains! They're still, like for like, leading 964 prices by some margin.
Wozy68 said:
To me the last true out and out 911 sports car was the 2.4S or maybe the 964RS.
The 964RS was slated at launch by all reviewers for its non-compliant rock hard suspension which meant it was (an is) unusable on anything other than a snooker table.So I'll give you 2.4S but would add 993RS instead of 964RS
I felt the car was always on a mission to throw me straight into the nearest ditch ...... to which it eventually did
Sounds like a set up problem / lack of talent tbh and a bit odd as it was the earlier cars you mention that had a rep for sometime wayward behavior. The rear end of both the 964 and the 993 both had huge changes over the preceding model with the latter being a leap forward in reduced NVH. Ironically that leap forward is why many people today much prefer the raw, more connected feel of the 964.
Sounds like a set up problem / lack of talent tbh and a bit odd as it was the earlier cars you mention that had a rep for sometime wayward behavior. The rear end of both the 964 and the 993 both had huge changes over the preceding model with the latter being a leap forward in reduced NVH. Ironically that leap forward is why many people today much prefer the raw, more connected feel of the 964.
boxsey said:
Wozy68 said:
This is not meant to be a 964 v 993 debate though I can see it seems it, I've also owned a 2.7 and 3.2 (x2) and loved all my past 911s, but unfortunately for me the 964 the least. If I was in the market at the moment, I'd look at a great serviced, higher mileage 993. Bit of a bargain IMO at the moment compared to the 964.
Where do we find these 993 bargains? The cheapest manual C2 coupe I can find in the PH classifieds is £33K for one in a horrible colour:http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
The next cheapest is £45K. 993s are nice cars but not what I would call bargains! They're still, like for like, leading 964 prices by some margin.
http://www.gmundcars.com/cars/951/993carrera2.html
Unsure if this one is on the hpi register or not.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C553919
ras62 said:
I felt the car was always on a mission to throw me straight into the nearest ditch ...... to which it eventually did
Sounds like a set up problem / lack of talent tbh and a bit odd as it was the earlier cars you mention that had a rep for sometime wayward behavior. The rear end of both the 964 and the 993 both had huge changes over the preceding model with the latter being a leap forward in reduced NVH. Ironically that leap forward is why many people today much prefer the raw, more connected feel of the 964.
Lack of talent, oh dear, its come to that has it. The guy asked for negatives as well as positives, I gave him mine, and its just IMO..Sounds like a set up problem / lack of talent tbh and a bit odd as it was the earlier cars you mention that had a rep for sometime wayward behavior. The rear end of both the 964 and the 993 both had huge changes over the preceding model with the latter being a leap forward in reduced NVH. Ironically that leap forward is why many people today much prefer the raw, more connected feel of the 964.
Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 5th January 16:13
I maybe wrong Wozzy but cars don't drive themselves so your comment about getting thrown into a ditch leads me to believe the driver made a mistake?
The 964 was a more predictable handling car than the 3.2 in extremes as was well covered at the launch so your comments on handling don't make a lot of sense. Some prefer the non power steering feel of a 3.2, I am not one of them.
The 964 was a more predictable handling car than the 3.2 in extremes as was well covered at the launch so your comments on handling don't make a lot of sense. Some prefer the non power steering feel of a 3.2, I am not one of them.
ras62 said:
I maybe wrong Wozzy but cars don't drive themselves so your comment about getting thrown into a ditch leads me to believe the driver made a mistake?
The 964 was a more predictable handling car than the 3.2 in extremes as was well covered at the launch so your comments on handling don't make a lot of sense. Some prefer the non power steering feel of a 3.2, I am not one of them.
The 964 was a more predictable handling car than the 3.2 in extremes as was well covered at the launch so your comments on handling don't make a lot of sense. Some prefer the non power steering feel of a 3.2, I am not one of them.
I always though it not a nice car to drive on unknown roads at speed. I tracked it and she seemed fine, I took her to Castle Coombe and a trip around the Ring. I just never got on with her on public roads, something I never had a problem with with any other aircooled 911 before or since. It just felt so damn heavy at the back to me and felt nowhere as nimble or as planted as a 3.2 and epecially a 993 to me.
As I said, the OP asked for opinions, I was just giving him mine through my experience. If he decides its the car for him, fair play and I hope he enjoys it.
Wozy68 said:
Know nothing about it, but I'm pretty sure you wouldnt get a 964 for this kind of money anymore with this spec.
http://www.gmundcars.com/cars/951/993carrera2.html
Thanks. That one looks very good value http://www.gmundcars.com/cars/951/993carrera2.html
....surprisingly so for a dealer of their standing. 
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