Uber low mileage 964 C2 for sale
Discussion
ras62 said:
I have never been a fan of the E46 M3. Far too heavy and the engine lacked the torque to cope. I drove one with a view to buy years ago but it felt dull and lacked the rawness of my then E34 M5. Now that was a special car.
I agree re torque point on all the M3s up to and inc E46. Not driven the newer M3s but they look even heavier. There's something about the build quality on a 964 that tickles me. Its better put together IMO than both the 993 that came after it and the 3.2C that preceded it. The 964 has the build quality of a tiger tank. Equally the M3s up to E46 also very well made. Can't say the same about the build quality of 986, 996, 987 and 997. Also the 964 and E46 M3 in the hands of a good driver can keep more modern machinery pretty honest. Both go round a track very well indeed.
Wozy68 said:
Have to agree. The 964 has aged well and is prettier now than when launched and seems to have gone through a major revision in its abilities (for some bizzare reason history seems to have been rewritten) compared to only 5 years ago.
Yet to me at least, on an unknown road and at speed it was the worse 911 I've driven. Not a great 911 IMO. Just my opinion mind.
For balance, I do have to agree that on stock original suspension my 964 was awful on the twisty, yumpy dales roads I know well., it would give me no confidence ... After one month of ownership I did have thoughts of moving it on. Yet to me at least, on an unknown road and at speed it was the worse 911 I've driven. Not a great 911 IMO. Just my opinion mind.
But, but the bullet , changed the shocks to pss10's , ride height to RS + 5mm and geometry to RS ( which I gather us pretty conservative and not much different to stock c2 ? ) .., all done by westbrooks carrera cup winning and current Pcgb race tech
Car is s revelation and the more I drive it the more u love it . If I had to sell all my cars bar one, the 964 would stay . All it needs is a lwt flywheel and it would be perfect for my needs
hot66 said:
Wozy68 said:
Have to agree. The 964 has aged well and is prettier now than when launched and seems to have gone through a major revision in its abilities (for some bizzare reason history seems to have been rewritten) compared to only 5 years ago.
Yet to me at least, on an unknown road and at speed it was the worse 911 I've driven. Not a great 911 IMO. Just my opinion mind.
For balance, I do have to agree that on stock original suspension my 964 was awful on the twisty, yumpy dales roads I know well., it would give me no confidence ... After one month of ownership I did have thoughts of moving it on. Yet to me at least, on an unknown road and at speed it was the worse 911 I've driven. Not a great 911 IMO. Just my opinion mind.
But, but the bullet , changed the shocks to pss10's , ride height to RS + 5mm and geometry to RS ( which I gather us pretty conservative and not much different to stock c2 ? ) .., all done by westbrooks carrera cup winning and current Pcgb race tech
Car is s revelation and the more I drive it the more u love it . If I had to sell all my cars bar one, the 964 would stay . All it needs is a lwt flywheel and it would be perfect for my needs
I saw one Last week and I must admit the 964 has weathered well, a very (dare I say) pretty car.
9e 28 said:
I agree re torque point on all the M3s up to and inc E46. Not driven the newer M3s but they look even heavier.
There's something about the build quality on a 964 that tickles me. Its better put together IMO than both the 993 that came after it and the 3.2C that preceded it. The 964 has the build quality of a tiger tank. Equally the M3s up to E46 also very well made. Can't say the same about the build quality of 986, 996, 987 and 997. Also the 964 and E46 M3 in the hands of a good driver can keep more modern machinery pretty honest. Both go round a track very well indeed.
I wouldn't say a 964 is better built than a 3.2.There's something about the build quality on a 964 that tickles me. Its better put together IMO than both the 993 that came after it and the 3.2C that preceded it. The 964 has the build quality of a tiger tank. Equally the M3s up to E46 also very well made. Can't say the same about the build quality of 986, 996, 987 and 997. Also the 964 and E46 M3 in the hands of a good driver can keep more modern machinery pretty honest. Both go round a track very well indeed.
On what grounds? The arch liners were a modernist move but save that they are on par. Although in their day the 964 dropped oil which hammered residuals..
P50 said:
9e 28 said:
I agree re torque point on all the M3s up to and inc E46. Not driven the newer M3s but they look even heavier.
There's something about the build quality on a 964 that tickles me. Its better put together IMO than both the 993 that came after it and the 3.2C that preceded it. The 964 has the build quality of a tiger tank. Equally the M3s up to E46 also very well made. Can't say the same about the build quality of 986, 996, 987 and 997. Also the 964 and E46 M3 in the hands of a good driver can keep more modern machinery pretty honest. Both go round a track very well indeed.
I wouldn't say a 964 is better built than a 3.2.There's something about the build quality on a 964 that tickles me. Its better put together IMO than both the 993 that came after it and the 3.2C that preceded it. The 964 has the build quality of a tiger tank. Equally the M3s up to E46 also very well made. Can't say the same about the build quality of 986, 996, 987 and 997. Also the 964 and E46 M3 in the hands of a good driver can keep more modern machinery pretty honest. Both go round a track very well indeed.
On what grounds? The arch liners were a modernist move but save that they are on par. Although in their day the 964 dropped oil which hammered residuals..
As a driving experience I'd still pick the 3.2C don't worry
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm inclined to agree. There's little in it if anything. However I had heard quality dropped. As in the 3.2 door handles were anodised. The 964's were powder coated as the material was inferior and covered this up.
The could be bo---cks obviously!
The seats, carpets and switchgear etc etc are all carry over give or take so little changed on the quality front.
3.2 for me as they are the last of the line. But do rot horribly as they have the rust traps of a 60's car...
I may be wrong but having previously used both back to back over a few years the switchgear and quality of plastics, materials etc feels a notch above in the 964 but that may just be an illusion who knows (i've never made a conscious effort to ever look it just feels that way). As others have said both cars were made at the zenith of a period where quality was very important. Just look at the way the Mercedes were made from that period especially the R107 SL, SEL and SEC. Current mainstream higher end cars are a bit of an embarrassment by comparison IMO. I know there was a massive price hike when the 964 C2 was released and Porsche claimed that 87% of the components of the car were completely different or re engineered - perhaps this was BS to justify the huge price hike. On the 964 oil leak issues as pointed out a fair few were caused by using the wrong oil!
9e 28 said:
I may be wrong but having previously used both back to back over a few years the switchgear and quality of plastics, materials etc feels a notch above in the 964 but that may just be an illusion who knows (i've never made a conscious effort to ever look it just feels that way). As others have said both cars were made at the zenith of a period where quality was very important. Just look at the way the Mercedes were made from that period especially the R107 SL, SEL and SEC. Current mainstream higher end cars are a bit of an embarrassment by comparison IMO. I know there was a massive price hike when the 964 C2 was released and Porsche claimed that 87% of the components of the car were completely different or re engineered - perhaps this was BS to justify the huge price hike. On the 964 oil leak issues as pointed out a fair few were caused by using the wrong oil!
The 80's was a high point in German engineering.In fact Porsche's slavish obsession for perfection coupled to obsolescence and a stale model line up lead them to almost bankruptcy.
The 993 is a great anorak enthusiast last of the air cooled machine but in '98 your average punter looking for a new high end sports car got in it and politely walked away.
I remember my non petrol head pal in 2001 wanting a used in warranty OPC 911. He drove a '98 2S 993 and then a straight '99 996 coupe and said the 993 was total $hyte!
He hated -
The noise (WTF?)
Bad ventilation (steamed up in winter when he test drove it)
Notchy gearbox cold and old fashioned
Switchgear all over the place.
Handling not as confident/planted/refined as 996
He was possibly thinking of a cabriolet and thought the 993 pram look was crap!
In short, mr normal punter who likes shiny new things was not interested in the original 911. It had become obsolete to the dude holding the folding!
Merc had properly reinvented the SL and was probably gained a lot of ground on the 993.
At the end of the day when the 993 was new it depreciated like a BMW or Merc. Prob same trade in after 3 years on a 993 or 996 in period. It's only 20 years later that the enthusiast take on A/C makes the 993 hugely attractive
Oh and the IMS problem that has tainted these later cars forever. The quality went down the khazi!
P50 said:
He hated -
The noise (WTF?)
Bad ventilation (steamed up in winter when he test drove it)
Notchy gearbox cold and old fashioned
Switchgear all over the place.
Handling not as confident/planted/refined as 996
He was possibly thinking of a cabriolet and thought the 993 pram look was crap!
Its funny because those are some of the things that attract people today!The noise (WTF?)
Bad ventilation (steamed up in winter when he test drove it)
Notchy gearbox cold and old fashioned
Switchgear all over the place.
Handling not as confident/planted/refined as 996
He was possibly thinking of a cabriolet and thought the 993 pram look was crap!
brakes are often a limiting factor on an older 911. The basic brakes on a standard 964 are reasonably ok but you can bolt on some very decent brakes with minimal modifications. Then you have a car allows you to brake consistently very late and hard. With the correct set up, the chassis will let you take a deep trail also. No need to pre plan your braking or nurse any overheating. Only the very best modern GT cars can match that kind of repetitive performance
boxsey said:
Koln-RS said:
9e 28 said:
Another lovely example of a 964 C2 if anyones looking for a good one. She looks fabulous subject to getting an inspection. Perfect Xmas present to yourself.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Might be good - but, when selling a car, why do so many people struggle to take decent photographs http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
'The car has an exceptionally low, genuine mileage of 58k and has been kept in amazing condition. Fully dry, never had any oil leaks'
If that's the case it'll be just about the first H reg 964 that doesn't have any leaks/weeps. Those of us with the early cars either live with the annoyance of the leaks or get the engine rebuilt and have the heads modified to the later style that came with gaskets. To state that it has no leaks is quite a claim! I'll bet removing the engine undertray might reveal a different story.
9e 28 said:
boxsey said:
Koln-RS said:
9e 28 said:
Another lovely example of a 964 C2 if anyones looking for a good one. She looks fabulous subject to getting an inspection. Perfect Xmas present to yourself.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Might be good - but, when selling a car, why do so many people struggle to take decent photographs http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
'The car has an exceptionally low, genuine mileage of 58k and has been kept in amazing condition. Fully dry, never had any oil leaks'
If that's the case it'll be just about the first H reg 964 that doesn't have any leaks/weeps. Those of us with the early cars either live with the annoyance of the leaks or get the engine rebuilt and have the heads modified to the later style that came with gaskets. To state that it has no leaks is quite a claim! I'll bet removing the engine undertray might reveal a different story.
g7jhp said:
9e 28 said:
boxsey said:
Koln-RS said:
9e 28 said:
Another lovely example of a 964 C2 if anyones looking for a good one. She looks fabulous subject to getting an inspection. Perfect Xmas present to yourself.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Might be good - but, when selling a car, why do so many people struggle to take decent photographs http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
'The car has an exceptionally low, genuine mileage of 58k and has been kept in amazing condition. Fully dry, never had any oil leaks'
If that's the case it'll be just about the first H reg 964 that doesn't have any leaks/weeps. Those of us with the early cars either live with the annoyance of the leaks or get the engine rebuilt and have the heads modified to the later style that came with gaskets. To state that it has no leaks is quite a claim! I'll bet removing the engine undertray might reveal a different story.
The Hairpin 33k mile manual 964 C2 sold for £60k.
Hexagon sold a very low miles Jap import tiptronic 964 C2 for £60k a few days ago too - car was stunning.
manual LHD 964 C2s are £50k + nowadays. Two lovely example here
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
9e 28 said:
manual LHD 964 C2s are £50k + nowadays. Two lovely example here
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
That black one in your first link looks absolutely stunning with cup wheels and mirrors and correct amber indicators. http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
I had the same thing, only midnight blue over blue, same as in sports seats, LHD, manual, factory LSD. Why oh why oh why did I sell it (for £20k)?
No garage was the answer. s
t and bugger. 9e 28 said:
Black is a lovely colour for a 964. Above is the Hexagon car,
Regret in yrs to come is my biggest fear if I list it
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