Discussion
Steve Rance said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXzMkKmdUZY
Just a short clip from the day. turn up the volume and you can hear the cups squirming
Thanks for showing us how capable these cars are on track. Just a short clip from the day. turn up the volume and you can hear the cups squirming
It will be even more capable with more camber and a remap! I think that there is a second or two of pace to come yet.
Although there isnt enough camber there is still a nice balance. If you look carefully, the throttle has a aluminium cover which refects on full throttle. You can see that I am pretty much flat on the apex of most corners (some are very late apex's)unless traffic is in the way. Thats what you want from a well set up 911. If you can't pick up full throttle at the apex, you have either carried too much speed in, you have a bad balance in the car - or you arn't trying hard enough!
Although there isnt enough camber there is still a nice balance. If you look carefully, the throttle has a aluminium cover which refects on full throttle. You can see that I am pretty much flat on the apex of most corners (some are very late apex's)unless traffic is in the way. Thats what you want from a well set up 911. If you can't pick up full throttle at the apex, you have either carried too much speed in, you have a bad balance in the car - or you arn't trying hard enough!
5517 said:
IMIA said:
964 was a very expensive cars compared to its pier group at the time and wasn't a good seller.
The main reason for the lower sales volume was the recession during the 964 build window.The 964 was a very desirable car in period.
Steve Rance said:
Thanks for the heads up on the exhaust. I'll get it done along with the revised geo and remap asap.
Steve, I've got a noise reducing exhaust tip with a removable second stage that I no longer need (selling my RS). This allows you to run a decat and cup pipe and will leave you at 105db (dyno test suggested the tip cost 2bhp, but the tuning gain and weight loss of decat and cup pipe is much greater). The removable second stage will get you down to 98 or 99db to get you through the static noise test on the quietest days. You then just remove it before going out on track as 964s never seem to have a problem on drive by tests. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you some pictures - it's a nicely engineered bit of kit and takes two minutes to fit.
Jamie
Jamie Summers said:
Steve,
I've got a noise reducing exhaust tip with a removable second stage that I no longer need (selling my RS). This allows you to run a decat and cup pipe and will leave you at 105db (dyno test suggested the tip cost 2bhp, but the tuning gain and weight loss of decat and cup pipe is much greater). The removable second stage will get you down to 98 or 99db to get you through the static noise test on the quietest days. You then just remove it before going out on track as 964s never seem to have a problem on drive by tests. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you some pictures - it's a nicely engineered bit of kit and takes two minutes to fit.
Jamie
Hi Jamie,I've got a noise reducing exhaust tip with a removable second stage that I no longer need (selling my RS). This allows you to run a decat and cup pipe and will leave you at 105db (dyno test suggested the tip cost 2bhp, but the tuning gain and weight loss of decat and cup pipe is much greater). The removable second stage will get you down to 98 or 99db to get you through the static noise test on the quietest days. You then just remove it before going out on track as 964s never seem to have a problem on drive by tests. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you some pictures - it's a nicely engineered bit of kit and takes two minutes to fit.
Jamie
If Steve doesn't want your exhaust tip, I'd be interested. Mine has a split in it, also don't have the insert. Interesting to see what sound level you're getting - my car with a cat, full exhaust and tip came in at about 102dB at Oulton. I wonder if the solid engine and gearbox mounts are allowing more mechanical noise transmission compared to a standard RS.
cheers
Ian
Hi Ian,
Sure, no problem. With decat and Cup Pipe and standard tip my car was around 107db, the tip reduced it to 104-105db. With the bung in it brought it down to 98-99db. All slightly subject to the vagaries of the testers' required rpm, weather conditions, car temperature etc etc..........
Jamie
Sure, no problem. With decat and Cup Pipe and standard tip my car was around 107db, the tip reduced it to 104-105db. With the bung in it brought it down to 98-99db. All slightly subject to the vagaries of the testers' required rpm, weather conditions, car temperature etc etc..........
Jamie
My new MOMO wheel arrived this morning, having that installed this week along with the new wheels, going up from the 16" D90's to 17" Cup 1's, hopefully before the weekend.
Just need to get the drawings for that billet shifter so i can find someone to make it. Does anyone have the specs of the gear shifter thread etc?
Just need to get the drawings for that billet shifter so i can find someone to make it. Does anyone have the specs of the gear shifter thread etc?
Steve Rance said:
Jamie thank you. I am trying - without success - to change my email address on my profile so please bear with me old thing
Steve, Send me your email address via my profile and I'll send you some pics of the tail pipe if you're interested. Otherwise there seems to be an orderly queue forming !
Jamie
Quick update. I took the car to Oulton without making any changes. It felt nicely balanced and I ran the cup 2's at 2.1 bar all round. A little less tyre squeal but it definitely needs more camber. The clubsport suspension is a nice addition to a 964. The brake set up is lovely. Would definitely recommend IT for chaps building a 964 hot rod. I was looking for a time under 2 minutes but only managed 2.02. There was no more in the car as it is. Only a few more things to complete the build to my preference. For the chassis, more camber. The current 2 degrees is not enough. Another degree front and rear. Rake angle, toe and caster are fine. This will help make the most of the Cup 2's. For the engine, a cat bypass and a Wayne Scholfield remap. This should liberate some useful extra power. Finally, some 6 point harnesses and that will be job done and a very lovely little car which should mince around Oulton in under 2 minutes which was my aim at the beginning of the build. Not shatteringly quick by today's standards but quick enough to be a lot of fun in a car that retains its electric windows and air con for the odd euro trip.
I guess your standards are higher than mine but that sounds pretty impressive to me for the little car. 
To put the time into context it's the same as a good driver in a 964RS. Here's a lap of Tim Barber driving his at the Oulton Park RS day in 2012. I think Tim would have been on Toyo R888s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kNo3_-dLY
When it comes to 964 race cars built form 964C2s, I remember Marcus Carniel doing qualifying laps of around 1'56" on the original pilot cups and Mark sumpter doing around 1'50" last year on slicks.
To put the time into context it's the same as a good driver in a 964RS. Here's a lap of Tim Barber driving his at the Oulton Park RS day in 2012. I think Tim would have been on Toyo R888s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8kNo3_-dLY
When it comes to 964 race cars built form 964C2s, I remember Marcus Carniel doing qualifying laps of around 1'56" on the original pilot cups and Mark sumpter doing around 1'50" last year on slicks.
That RS looks like it's behaving itself nicely. Well driven. I had to work a little harder to get my time as the mechanic grip had run out and I was relying on the surplus of phyical grip in the tyres. Things will balance up with more camber. a Tidier Sub 2 mins should be on with a sharper geo and a map. I suppose if the C2 race cars were running 1.56 on cups a sub 2.0 min from a road car is reasonably decent.
Thread update. I added another degree of neg camber on the rear and 1.75 on the front to sharpen the set up a bit to try and get the tyres working a little better. Now have -3 deg rear and -2.75 front. If I were running a slick tyre I'd have more front camber than rear but on Cup2's and with more forward brake bias that would compromise the ABS system.
This set up is definitely an improvement. The car is more predictable, works it's tyres better and has more pace. I will pop over to Snetterton on a dry day and get some data for some comparisons but from feel the pace difference is quite substantial. A little more trail is needed to work the front in as the grip bias has passed a little more to the rear but the car doesn't need anywhere bear as much work on the nose as say a 996 or 7 GT3. Still a very easy car to drive..
And even more fun :-)
This set up is definitely an improvement. The car is more predictable, works it's tyres better and has more pace. I will pop over to Snetterton on a dry day and get some data for some comparisons but from feel the pace difference is quite substantial. A little more trail is needed to work the front in as the grip bias has passed a little more to the rear but the car doesn't need anywhere bear as much work on the nose as say a 996 or 7 GT3. Still a very easy car to drive..
And even more fun :-)
Steve Rance said:
Thread update. I added another degree of neg camber on the rear and 1.75 on the front to sharpen the set up a bit to try and get the tyres working a little better. Now have -3 deg rear and -2.75 front. If I were running a slick tyre I'd have more front camber than rear but on Cup2's and with more forward brake bias that would compromise the ABS system.
This set up is definitely an improvement. The car is more predictable, works it's tyres better and has more pace. I will pop over to Snetterton on a dry day and get some data for some comparisons but from feel the pace difference is quite substantial. A little more trail is needed to work the front in as the grip bias has passed a little more to the rear but the car doesn't need anywhere bear as much work on the nose as say a 996 or 7 GT3. Still a very easy car to drive..
And even more fun :-)
Look forward to see how you get on Steve. At the moment I have around -3.25 deg front and rear with 888r. At Spa started off trail braking as normal which gave too much grip on the front, so after a few laps took a different approach, removed trail braking completely and the car amazed me with the grip. - the problem is that I find it hard not to trail brake so will probably adjust the front to allow trail braking. This set up is definitely an improvement. The car is more predictable, works it's tyres better and has more pace. I will pop over to Snetterton on a dry day and get some data for some comparisons but from feel the pace difference is quite substantial. A little more trail is needed to work the front in as the grip bias has passed a little more to the rear but the car doesn't need anywhere bear as much work on the nose as say a 996 or 7 GT3. Still a very easy car to drive..
And even more fun :-)
Quick through the bends at Spa, but B1/B2 and Kemmel is slow. Just fitting supercharger now to help with that
Ken
Just a thread update. Had the 964 remapped by Wayne Scholfied yesterday after fitting a Dansk Cat bypass. Very impressed with Wayne who spent hours smoothing out any small dips in power delivery. I told him what i wanted and he delivered it with no bullSh*t, which in the world of mapping is quite refreshing.
A few minor odds to do but the car is basically there now so i'll take it along to the RS day at Oulton and see how the package works now as a whole.
A few minor odds to do but the car is basically there now so i'll take it along to the RS day at Oulton and see how the package works now as a whole.
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