Discussion
For you guys running modded or track 964's out there.
Finally fitted the Tarrat rose jointed spring plates and the Elephant sport bushes. These modifications have made a big difference to the car's handling. At the frot of the car, the bushes add a layer or sharpness and control at all speeds from slow road to fast track. Steering response is sharper and more responsive. Not as much work needed to get the nose of the car into the apex on the circuit and defenately more speed to the apex. The spring plates take the vaigueness away once the car is rotated. That was the area that I found needed tightening the most. Once rotated, the rear of the car never felt truly settled and in a session of over 4 or 5 laps the rear would get a little wayward as the tyres went off. The spring plates and bushes make a huge difference in this area as they really tighten the rear of the car down and help calm excess movement in the rear axle as it loaded up on throttle on exit. Result, a more communicative and stable ride. Much less steering correction required, the rear tyres are not working anywhere near as hard as they were to 'mop things up' so they stay in for a lot longer. This may vindicate the new Cup tyre which I originally thought did stay in as long as the original Cup 1. Will report back on that one
If you are looking at spending money on the suspension of your 964, I'd look at these modifications at the same time as changing the springs and dampers. Definately something that I should have done at the outset.
Finally fitted the Tarrat rose jointed spring plates and the Elephant sport bushes. These modifications have made a big difference to the car's handling. At the frot of the car, the bushes add a layer or sharpness and control at all speeds from slow road to fast track. Steering response is sharper and more responsive. Not as much work needed to get the nose of the car into the apex on the circuit and defenately more speed to the apex. The spring plates take the vaigueness away once the car is rotated. That was the area that I found needed tightening the most. Once rotated, the rear of the car never felt truly settled and in a session of over 4 or 5 laps the rear would get a little wayward as the tyres went off. The spring plates and bushes make a huge difference in this area as they really tighten the rear of the car down and help calm excess movement in the rear axle as it loaded up on throttle on exit. Result, a more communicative and stable ride. Much less steering correction required, the rear tyres are not working anywhere near as hard as they were to 'mop things up' so they stay in for a lot longer. This may vindicate the new Cup tyre which I originally thought did stay in as long as the original Cup 1. Will report back on that one
If you are looking at spending money on the suspension of your 964, I'd look at these modifications at the same time as changing the springs and dampers. Definately something that I should have done at the outset.
An update for any of you chaps that are interested. A few more minor mods in the past few months. I took Jamie's advice and fitted a cup pipe after hearing a 964RS running earlier in the year. He was right, it wasnt too noisy and did sound very nice indeed. The chasis is now exactly how I want it so no changes at all there. The Tarrat spring plates combined with the Elephant bushes are probably the best pound for pound chasis modification that i've made but they need to be complimented with a decent set of dampers and uprated anti-roll bars if you want modern levels of chasis control. If you are not going to track the car, the brake upgrade isnt needed to be honest. The factory fitted LSD is scheduled to be replaced by a Guards unit but i'm softening up the spec a little to make it more road friendly. The remap from Wayne produced a lot of extra BHP but - again - to be honest, power is not what this car is all about. It was just as lovely with 250 bhp - but for the money it was worth it as it is more responsive and runs a lot better with the single mass flywheel.
One very useful mod is a set of LED headlights and side lights. Simple plug and play repacements that give you modern levels of light at night. That was a part of old school that I definately don't miss. The effect is amazing when compared to the original bulbs. If you have an early 911 I would reccommend them. http://woodypeck.com/?product=porsche-964-headlamp...
I have to say that the car is so much more I hoped that it would be both on the road and on the circuit. It demonstrates to me that a lot of advances in the performance of modern sports cars relates to improvements in damping and body control. Translating these into an older, relatively stiff and light shell can produce a very good car that can offer very decent level of modern performance with the tactility and involvement lost with current saftey net driving aids. I know that current regulations would prevent it, but if Porsche were to build a car like this today, it would be a lovely thing. I'm not denegrating new cars and would love a 991GT3 in my collection but, having lived with this car for several years now I've grown to realise that, if we take damping and electronic advances out of the equation, we havn't moved that far in other areas but we have lost tactility. I couldnt be without this car now. It's kind of the Ying to the Yang of my GT3. If you have the budget and you love driving an Aircooled 911 and a GT3(any) or GT4 in your garage is all that you would ever need. People often comment that aircooled cars are not worth the money when compared to modern 911's - believe me, they most definately are.
One very useful mod is a set of LED headlights and side lights. Simple plug and play repacements that give you modern levels of light at night. That was a part of old school that I definately don't miss. The effect is amazing when compared to the original bulbs. If you have an early 911 I would reccommend them. http://woodypeck.com/?product=porsche-964-headlamp...
I have to say that the car is so much more I hoped that it would be both on the road and on the circuit. It demonstrates to me that a lot of advances in the performance of modern sports cars relates to improvements in damping and body control. Translating these into an older, relatively stiff and light shell can produce a very good car that can offer very decent level of modern performance with the tactility and involvement lost with current saftey net driving aids. I know that current regulations would prevent it, but if Porsche were to build a car like this today, it would be a lovely thing. I'm not denegrating new cars and would love a 991GT3 in my collection but, having lived with this car for several years now I've grown to realise that, if we take damping and electronic advances out of the equation, we havn't moved that far in other areas but we have lost tactility. I couldnt be without this car now. It's kind of the Ying to the Yang of my GT3. If you have the budget and you love driving an Aircooled 911 and a GT3(any) or GT4 in your garage is all that you would ever need. People often comment that aircooled cars are not worth the money when compared to modern 911's - believe me, they most definately are.
Absolutely. Originally I was told that 17" wheels would not fit over the calipers but now believe that they will. My default choice for a road wheel and tyre would definately be a 17" wheel with a 45 or even 50 profile. That would give some nice complience for the road and give a nicer compromise. Ideally I'd have a set of 18" BBS E88's for the track and 17" fuchs for the road.
To be honest, as I said earlier the power increase was not that relevant to the project but worth mentioning. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the dyno or the quoted power output but i can say that originally the car definatley dyno'd at 248 bhp and after the remap it was 300. Whether the car was down on power initially I couldnt say. It was a hairdyer at 250 bhp and it's still a hairdryer now - but it's a nicer hairdryer to driver and to me that's all that counts
It really depends on what you are looking to create. It would be easy to spend £25K plus. Plus the cost of the donor car of course so you are almost in the realms of GT4 money. Would I have built the same car having to buy a donor at current retails? Knowing how it drives, I think that I would. If you are looking for rawness and involvement it's close to a good as it gets but if that's not exactly what you are looking for, I wouldnt do it.
Unfortunately i'm a long way south but I may bring it to the RS day in March. If I do, i'm happy to run you round in it. If you would like to know more about what the car is like to drive, Cmoose drove the car a year or so ago and posted a decent article here on PH. If you are interested It may be worth searching for that.
Another update on this thread and to re enforce the benefit of the tarett spring plates as an upgrade. The car was half a second quicker at Snetterton with the same and very tired Cup 2’s. The only upgrade since the last visit was the spring plates. More importantly, the car was more fun and a lot more predictable. Definitely a worthy upgrade
Just revisiting this thread. With 964 prices moving ever skywards, is this just another beautiful drivers car destined to fall into the hands of collectors migrate away from the type of owner that would contribute to this thread? It’s probably already happened to a large extent. Such a shame
Slippydiff said:
Pretty much Steve. The 996 C2 is now proving to be the default choice for those seeking a cheap entry point into 911 ownership. Whilst the 964 has become the focus of collectors, Singer and a host of other backdating/modifiers.
Hope you’re well ?
This should be right up your street
:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfAWu8lxvKE&pp=y...
Hi Henry. All fine thank you. How’s you? Liked that 964. Personally I don’t see merit in backdating a 964. I’d even take a carefully modified 964 in its original clothing over a Singer. Hope you’re well ?
This should be right up your street
:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfAWu8lxvKE&pp=y...
You should be fine. There were several set ups the sharpest was R+1 which I used on my car. Not sure there are many cars with that set up as it’s a bit twitchy. Part have all of the data. They are all pretty well balanced but you will need to trail into the apex to counter understeer when you turn in on slow corners. Still have Slippy’s old MK1. It’s a fun car to drive
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