993 with spoilers or without?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed, the effect of rear wings etc can be quite surprising at times. On the back of the 911's (speaking generally) the air at the rear shows tendencies for swirling and sucking back under the rear of the car. This adds to the drag figures. Rear wings (sometimes) change the flow and stop this happening, improving drag numbers slightly. The whole drag thing is an interesting one. It doesn't need to be of concern for a road type car unless maximising fuel economy or achieving absolute VMAX are your priorities.
While increasing DF generally brings an increase in drag, the threshold where the drag starts to become an issue is far higher than the levels involved in discussions like this one.
What this means is that the performance impacts from the improved DF outweigh the impacts of the associated drag. You make more time up going round corners than you ever lose from any impact due to drag.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 21st December 11:49
fioran0 said:
Indeed, the effect of rear wings etc can be quite surprising at times. On the back of the 911's (speaking generally) the air at the rear shows tendencies for swirling and sucking back under the rear of the car. This adds to the drag figures. Rear wings (sometimes) change the flow and stop this happening, improving drag numbers slightly.
The whole drag thing is an interesting one. It doesn't need to be of concern for a road type car unless maximising fuel economy or achieving absolute VMAX are your priorities.
While increasing DF generally brings an increase in drag, the threshold where the drag starts to become an issue is far higher than the levels involved in discussions like this one.
What this means is that the performance impacts from the improved DF outweigh the impacts of the associated drag. You make more time up going round corners than you ever lose from any impact due to drag.
That is really interesting and informative, thanks!The whole drag thing is an interesting one. It doesn't need to be of concern for a road type car unless maximising fuel economy or achieving absolute VMAX are your priorities.
While increasing DF generally brings an increase in drag, the threshold where the drag starts to become an issue is far higher than the levels involved in discussions like this one.
What this means is that the performance impacts from the improved DF outweigh the impacts of the associated drag. You make more time up going round corners than you ever lose from any impact due to drag.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 21st December 11:49
I know a little more than I did before, which wasn't much!
HaHa yes I remember the very wet race at SPA when we had a truly huge wing from Richard C ( old 935 wing ) , down the Kemmel straight at 180 plus , when we lapped club runners with a 60 mph speed differential it was like a vortex ........saw some in car footage from them and the spray was incredible ..but in 993 days aero was agricultural .... big wings , dive planes , gurney flaps changed with the GT3
Regarding the 993 aero/drag if you look at the schematic particularly the areas of turbulence around the door mirrors, the front pillars where the rain gutter is and the roof spoiler (above the rear screen)
You can see on teh following photos how I had the rain gutters 959ised with special DP rear flush screen and aero pod mirrors.
I actually did this mainly for looks (and sunroof removal) but was quite astounded that with these alterations only the car which pre body mods and wearing a more drag friendly 993 turbo S rear wing would manage 196mph maximum at the 1.6 miles of Bruntingthorpe was hitting the rev limiter at 201 mph GPS (wearing the bloody great GT2 rear wing) a good 150 metres earlier. OK there was a decent tail wind but I think aero mods made a massive difference at high speed and with the spoiler set up it was totally stable !
You can see on teh following photos how I had the rain gutters 959ised with special DP rear flush screen and aero pod mirrors.
I actually did this mainly for looks (and sunroof removal) but was quite astounded that with these alterations only the car which pre body mods and wearing a more drag friendly 993 turbo S rear wing would manage 196mph maximum at the 1.6 miles of Bruntingthorpe was hitting the rev limiter at 201 mph GPS (wearing the bloody great GT2 rear wing) a good 150 metres earlier. OK there was a decent tail wind but I think aero mods made a massive difference at high speed and with the spoiler set up it was totally stable !
Nickmartin24 said:
Pretty new to all this so sorry if this is sounding naive or obvious but how straight forward is it to remove a spoiler or add one?
On a 993?Front are simple, on a NB front PU - the lower corners are detachable. You have a choice of RS (angled) or 'Aero' (flat). The rear is more involved, but not difficult. The ideal situation is to source another engine lid, but it's basically nuts and bolts.
If you are getting rid of a rear fixed spoiler, the motor for the OE spoiler might be missing, but AFAIK the loom is the same regardless of what spoiler the car left the factory with.
RS sills are a very simple swop.
Orangecurry said:
On a 993?
Front are simple, on a NB front PU - the lower corners are detachable. You have a choice of RS (angled) or 'Aero' (flat). The rear is more involved, but not difficult. The ideal situation is to source another engine lid, but it's basically nuts and bolts.
Thanks for the helpful responses. I am in the market for a NB 993 but prefer the simple lines without the rear spoiler. Its a pretty complicated set of options out there with the relatively small number of 993s in my budget so useful to know what can and can't be changed easily. So to clarify; removing the fixed spoiler (nuts and bolts) wouldn't leave any additional marks or modifications to the remaining bodywork? Front are simple, on a NB front PU - the lower corners are detachable. You have a choice of RS (angled) or 'Aero' (flat). The rear is more involved, but not difficult. The ideal situation is to source another engine lid, but it's basically nuts and bolts.
I believe no marks would remain for any of the rear spoilers - the engine lid has a 'well' into which sits either a bolted-in fixed spoiler, or a simple articulating wing which extends/retracts using a motor (which may or may not remain on a fixed-wing car).
You can see the 'well' and the method of attaching the articulating wing below.
ETA the 'well' may be scuffed by (the slight movement of) a fixed spoiler, and would only show when removed, but that would just be a repaint required.
PS There are IIRC two types of so-called 'basket-handle' wings - one of which (if fitted) sits on top of the articulating wing and is bolted through that wing - the other is for an alternate 3rd brake light, and is bolted through the engine lid.
Both are thankfully quite rare.
(edited for clarity!)
You can see the 'well' and the method of attaching the articulating wing below.
ETA the 'well' may be scuffed by (the slight movement of) a fixed spoiler, and would only show when removed, but that would just be a repaint required.
PS There are IIRC two types of so-called 'basket-handle' wings - one of which (if fitted) sits on top of the articulating wing and is bolted through that wing - the other is for an alternate 3rd brake light, and is bolted through the engine lid.
Both are thankfully quite rare.
(edited for clarity!)
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 30th December 16:18
Orangecurry said:
I believe no marks would remain for any of the rear spoilers - the engine lid has a 'well' into which sits either a bolted-in fixed spoiler, or a simple articulating wing which extends/retracts using a motor (which may or may not remain on a fixed-wing car).
You can see the 'well' and the method of attaching the articulating wing below.
ETA the 'well' may be scuffed by (the slight movement of) a fixed spoiler, and would only show when removed, but that would just be a repaint required.
PS There are IIRC two types of so-called 'basket-handle' wings - one of which (if fitted) sits on top of the articulating wing and is bolted through that wing - the other is for an alternate 3rd brake light, and is bolted through the engine lid.
Both are thankfully quite rare.
(edited for clarity!)
Brilliant and really helpful thank you. Now on with the search for my budget 993!....You can see the 'well' and the method of attaching the articulating wing below.
ETA the 'well' may be scuffed by (the slight movement of) a fixed spoiler, and would only show when removed, but that would just be a repaint required.
PS There are IIRC two types of so-called 'basket-handle' wings - one of which (if fitted) sits on top of the articulating wing and is bolted through that wing - the other is for an alternate 3rd brake light, and is bolted through the engine lid.
Both are thankfully quite rare.
(edited for clarity!)
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 30th December 16:18
hunter 66 said:
Another little one ....... last used the big one at SPA , but here after 24 hours so little Dirty...
This is the one for me, I love the Porsche cup race at the British grandprix at Silverstone would love a 911 with this spoiler but how much would it cost to fit one to say a 4Soldnbold said:
Well mine came to me with, and after nearly 3 years I'm still undecided.
I keep looking for a standard rear spoiler from time to time but complete units rarely come up for sale.
We bought a car which looks exactly the same as the above last week and im already googling rear spoilers as we can't decide either. I think I'll buy a spare rear lid/ front lowers and keep them in the loft!!!I keep looking for a standard rear spoiler from time to time but complete units rarely come up for sale.
I noticed the body kit didn't feature in the M codes but it isn't quite the same as the factory aero kit in that the brake light still lives at the top of the window. Your post confirms my suspicions that it was deadlier fit.
Edited by Bobley on Friday 31st December 12:57
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