"Hand built" engines ?
Discussion
Mercedes AMG make a big deal about hand building there engines, and then the engine builder gets to stick his name plate on it, gives someone spending a lot of money a warm and fuzzy feeling to have Wolfgang or Fritz's name on it.
In reality, does it make any difference, I watched a video and they are hand assembled, but its a fairly automated process, but what happens with normal engines, is that process completely automated ?
Is this largely marketing, is it more or less the same process with a name badge on ?
In reality, does it make any difference, I watched a video and they are hand assembled, but its a fairly automated process, but what happens with normal engines, is that process completely automated ?
Is this largely marketing, is it more or less the same process with a name badge on ?
I suppose the argument is that a single human working on an engine can spot any potential manufacturing flaws, etc. in components as they assemble where a machine would just blindly bolt them together. Personally, I view it as a way to put a positive marketing spin on the fact that they don't make enough of the things to make it worth fully automating... it's hardly unique to engines though, people will pay more for almost anything that's been "hand-made".
I'm currently working at a company that manufactures precision toleranced air motors. The parts are made by cnc machines to insanely accurate tolerances that would be pretty much impossible to achieve by hand but the actual machines are assembled by hand. I doubt any motor is entirely hand built or entirely machine built.
As for spotting issues, I've yet to meet a human that can measure as accurate as a laser powered machine. Major flaws can be spotted by eye but the microscopic stuff is not humanly possible.
As for spotting issues, I've yet to meet a human that can measure as accurate as a laser powered machine. Major flaws can be spotted by eye but the microscopic stuff is not humanly possible.
k-ink said:
On high end engines I suspect it is much cheaper to have them hand made in the smaller quantities. Plus as said, they could spot issues before the engine is fired up.
I think Merc, Nissan, etc... pick good people to build these things and let's face it, you're not going to make sure something is just "good enough" if your name is stamped on a plate on the top of it.In a 'normal' engine plant an engine goes down a line and is assembled by a number of people, I think the major difference with Mercedes is that one man builds it from start to finish.
I doubt the quality of manufacture between say a Toyota engine and a Mercedes engine is a million miles apart.
I doubt the quality of manufacture between say a Toyota engine and a Mercedes engine is a million miles apart.
As above I think it's marketing personally, hand made things are usually perceived as better in luxury goods.
I paid extra for some ald biddy to make my kilt. Her name was Margaret, I think, she actually had terrible handwriting which made me question how she can make a quality garb if she doesn't have the dexterity to write her name. Probably crippled with arthritis from all her kilt building.
I also enjoy handmade sandwiches. Not because of their flavour, but just because I like the power trip of telling someone on minimum wage how to assemble my lunch. I then like to leave half of it on the table and walk out.
I paid extra for some ald biddy to make my kilt. Her name was Margaret, I think, she actually had terrible handwriting which made me question how she can make a quality garb if she doesn't have the dexterity to write her name. Probably crippled with arthritis from all her kilt building.
I also enjoy handmade sandwiches. Not because of their flavour, but just because I like the power trip of telling someone on minimum wage how to assemble my lunch. I then like to leave half of it on the table and walk out.
Probably is mostly marketing but does give a warm fuzzy glow to all concerned.
If my name was going on an engine I'd make sure I did everything correct, even if a lot of it was automated.
AMG have a pretty good reputation for their engines and I'd like to say thanks to Tobias Schultes - so far, so good mate!
It's a shame they don't hand build the ABC pumps
If my name was going on an engine I'd make sure I did everything correct, even if a lot of it was automated.
AMG have a pretty good reputation for their engines and I'd like to say thanks to Tobias Schultes - so far, so good mate!
It's a shame they don't hand build the ABC pumps
The impression is that you have someone that knows how to build an entire engine as opposed to a line worker that has been simply trained to put part A into hole B.
The inference is that the engine builder is therefore a more highly trained and experienced person and will therefore do a better job.
Are AMG engines blueprinted? If so then the production volume may mean some of this is done by hand selection rather than automation?
The inference is that the engine builder is therefore a more highly trained and experienced person and will therefore do a better job.
Are AMG engines blueprinted? If so then the production volume may mean some of this is done by hand selection rather than automation?
k-ink said:
Agreed, I think the term hand assembled is what we are talking about. I doubt anything is hand made on a lathe
Indeed. They're all hand assembled. Pistons / rings / rods are handed to the 'builder' pre-assembled, he drops them in then torques the bolts up. Same with heads. They arrive pre-assembled with cams and valves etc. Just whack a gasket on and torque it down. Looms are also pre-made etc etc.I think the term hand built conjures up images of middle aged men in lab coats, measuring crank journals with a micrometer, hand polishing bits, lapping valves in with a stick and a tub of grit etc etc.
Gary29 said:
In a 'normal' engine plant an engine goes down a line and is assembled by a number of people, I think the major difference with Mercedes is that one man builds it from start to finish.
I doubt the quality of manufacture between say a Toyota engine and a Mercedes engine is a million miles apart.
No, and Mercedes might even reach Toyota's level if they work hard. I think both are a little way behind Honda though.I doubt the quality of manufacture between say a Toyota engine and a Mercedes engine is a million miles apart.
I do suspect that hand building will hinder them rather than help though.
RedWhiteMonkey said:
I'm currently working at a company that manufactures precision toleranced air motors. The parts are made by cnc machines to insanely accurate tolerances that would be pretty much impossible to achieve by hand but the actual machines are assembled by hand. I doubt any motor is entirely hand built or entirely machine built.
As for spotting issues, I've yet to meet a human that can measure as accurate as a laser powered machine. Major flaws can be spotted by eye but the microscopic stuff is not humanly possible.
Been inside an engine factory and you're right, even the mass made ones have an element of hand build but its more like a car production line. Engines slide past on a cradle and the guy bolts in his bits as it passes his station. The best thing I saw at the place where I went was the engines in the dyno cradles, the whole shebang is basically quik-connected to a dyno; oil, water, air etc fired up, put through some basic checks and then simply disconnected to continue its journey!As for spotting issues, I've yet to meet a human that can measure as accurate as a laser powered machine. Major flaws can be spotted by eye but the microscopic stuff is not humanly possible.
I suppose from a marketing perspective it's nice to go spend a fair chunk of money on your car and think that one person has personally built it for you.
My AMG engine has a plaque and says who it's made by. Ironically he's Italian but worked for AMG for 20+ years as a 'Master Engine Builder'.
I suspect from a company point of view there's two sides. One, you'd assume the engineer would take pride in his work and build it the best way possible. Secondly, if it goes tits up they know exactly who's made a cock up because you're name is on it! hahaha
My AMG engine has a plaque and says who it's made by. Ironically he's Italian but worked for AMG for 20+ years as a 'Master Engine Builder'.
I suspect from a company point of view there's two sides. One, you'd assume the engineer would take pride in his work and build it the best way possible. Secondly, if it goes tits up they know exactly who's made a cock up because you're name is on it! hahaha
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