911 (964) Potential Purchase - What to look for??
Discussion
I'm currently working through a 964 Targa restoration, so you could say I'm biased.. however, I think the key issues are,
1) Get the car thoroughly and professionally inspected so you have a reasonable understanding of what it is you're likely to be getting into.
2) I agree that an engine rebuild is probably inevitable if you want the car to perform as it did (or better!) than when it left the factory and should be budgeted into the project cost.
3) I'd keep clear of any car with rust/bodywork problems unless the purchase price leaves plenty of headroom to get it fixed (at £40k it doesn't). Doors that don't fit properly may indicate a chassis that's sagged. Beware of a resprayed car... there's nothing wrong with a nice patina reflecting the cars age.
4) The engines are known for weeping oil which isn't a disaster so long as it's not silly quantities. Using a 20/50 oil helps and besides it helps keep the rear end of the car clear of corrosion.
The 964 can be a fabulous 911.. proper old classic shape, brilliant sound, with some more recent driver aids factory fitted. Plenty fast enough for public roads and a very engaging drive. Targas are a great choice (IMHO!) with the benefit of open top motoring which is hard to beat on the right day. They're not as stiff as the coupes, but unless you're on a circuit who cares? Wind noise can be a pain and may require new seals and roof adjustment/ refurbishment, but it will always be noisier than a coupe. I've been advised about a partial fix for this which I'll be trying when mine is back on the road in a couple of months.
With no foreseeable end in sight of steadily rising values, buying the right car, fixing it up and using it in sensible weather will give many years of pleasure for very little net cost.
1) Get the car thoroughly and professionally inspected so you have a reasonable understanding of what it is you're likely to be getting into.
2) I agree that an engine rebuild is probably inevitable if you want the car to perform as it did (or better!) than when it left the factory and should be budgeted into the project cost.
3) I'd keep clear of any car with rust/bodywork problems unless the purchase price leaves plenty of headroom to get it fixed (at £40k it doesn't). Doors that don't fit properly may indicate a chassis that's sagged. Beware of a resprayed car... there's nothing wrong with a nice patina reflecting the cars age.
4) The engines are known for weeping oil which isn't a disaster so long as it's not silly quantities. Using a 20/50 oil helps and besides it helps keep the rear end of the car clear of corrosion.
The 964 can be a fabulous 911.. proper old classic shape, brilliant sound, with some more recent driver aids factory fitted. Plenty fast enough for public roads and a very engaging drive. Targas are a great choice (IMHO!) with the benefit of open top motoring which is hard to beat on the right day. They're not as stiff as the coupes, but unless you're on a circuit who cares? Wind noise can be a pain and may require new seals and roof adjustment/ refurbishment, but it will always be noisier than a coupe. I've been advised about a partial fix for this which I'll be trying when mine is back on the road in a couple of months.
With no foreseeable end in sight of steadily rising values, buying the right car, fixing it up and using it in sensible weather will give many years of pleasure for very little net cost.
Hi Andy
I have sent you a message. I have a really nice 964 C4 Cab. It is great from a rust point of view and i am currently refreshing it and getting it ready for sale. It will have a new hood, lights, tyres etc etc. it is GP white with cobalt blue leather sports seats.
9M have just serviced it and commented on the condition. the bumpers and sill covers are off now so there is nothing hiding. I know that it is not a targa, but may be of interest?
I think that i am being sensible on my price expectations.
Robin
I have sent you a message. I have a really nice 964 C4 Cab. It is great from a rust point of view and i am currently refreshing it and getting it ready for sale. It will have a new hood, lights, tyres etc etc. it is GP white with cobalt blue leather sports seats.
9M have just serviced it and commented on the condition. the bumpers and sill covers are off now so there is nothing hiding. I know that it is not a targa, but may be of interest?
I think that i am being sensible on my price expectations.
Robin
I had for years a 1991 964 C4 coupe.
I bought it for 15k when they were the unloved 911 shape, I thought classic shape but better budget wise and the lauded more modern suspension was good for me.
Personal reflection below;
The rods that support the rear bumper behind the rear wheel do rust, push the front edge of the rear bumper and check for flex, movement or downright floppyness.
Look for rust at the back of the rear wing adjacent to the rear light clusters and around bottom corners of rear window.
Ditto rust around front head lights.
Ditto edge between bonnet and bumper is consistent all the way across.
I could never get the reverse light / fog lights to work regularly and reliably at MOT time, grrrr.
If not used frequently then you can get a build up of damp in the heat exchangers/ heating system and that smells like old socks / fresh cow sh*t when warmed up. Yummy.
If you use the back seats for kids remember when you go out for a whizz the crash structure was designed in the 1960s.
It usEd to leak a little bit on the garage floor, they all do that... I was told.
They had ridiculously large gap between tyre and wheel arch and lowering kits might be home made.. mine had frisky handling not sure if that was the lowering kit, said to be a good one, or just a trait of that model.
Loved the look of mine but frankly it wasn't all that great, had it years and it was much admired by many, it sold quickly as it looked so great and was a proper Porsche, being a 911 and all that, but hey just go for a drive and see if it actually floats your boat or is a case of rose tinted spectacles as you wanted one for so many years.
Good luck in your search, but frankly a Boxster is a much better car to drive.
I bought it for 15k when they were the unloved 911 shape, I thought classic shape but better budget wise and the lauded more modern suspension was good for me.
Personal reflection below;
The rods that support the rear bumper behind the rear wheel do rust, push the front edge of the rear bumper and check for flex, movement or downright floppyness.
Look for rust at the back of the rear wing adjacent to the rear light clusters and around bottom corners of rear window.
Ditto rust around front head lights.
Ditto edge between bonnet and bumper is consistent all the way across.
I could never get the reverse light / fog lights to work regularly and reliably at MOT time, grrrr.
If not used frequently then you can get a build up of damp in the heat exchangers/ heating system and that smells like old socks / fresh cow sh*t when warmed up. Yummy.
If you use the back seats for kids remember when you go out for a whizz the crash structure was designed in the 1960s.
It usEd to leak a little bit on the garage floor, they all do that... I was told.
They had ridiculously large gap between tyre and wheel arch and lowering kits might be home made.. mine had frisky handling not sure if that was the lowering kit, said to be a good one, or just a trait of that model.
Loved the look of mine but frankly it wasn't all that great, had it years and it was much admired by many, it sold quickly as it looked so great and was a proper Porsche, being a 911 and all that, but hey just go for a drive and see if it actually floats your boat or is a case of rose tinted spectacles as you wanted one for so many years.
Good luck in your search, but frankly a Boxster is a much better car to drive.
ras62 said:
Incorrect, and as Slippy says its a myth. 993 having hydraulic valves simply disguise top end ware better but the exhaust valve guides will be toast just like the 964. The older they get the more they will leak and the more owners will choose to rebuild.
Rust is still an issue in most of the same places and the rear suspension is very expensive to replace in comparison to the 964.
That is interesting. In over 10 years of dedicated lurking I've never read that viewpoint about 993 rust or engine issues.Rust is still an issue in most of the same places and the rear suspension is very expensive to replace in comparison to the 964.
Solarized said:
That is interesting. In over 10 years of dedicated lurking I've never read that viewpoint about 993 rust or engine issues.
I must admit to hearing about exhaust valve guides being a weak point on the very early 993s. Rust though I can't agree on. Yes windscreen front scuttle and rear lower corner issues and on some 993s (but not all) rear chassis rot. Even so none is a really expensive repair.Just realised you can't get earlier than my own dear 993, I'm off to the shed with rebuild guide, socket and spanner set.....
I own a '90, 964 targa. I agree with the need for a thorough, pre-purchase, independent inspection.
In addition, in the case of a targa, I suggest that you get it up to speed on a dual carriageway or, better still, a motorway. Badly fitted targa roofs can create awful wind roar. Enough to drive passengers to distraction. They're fiddly to adjust. Though, there is a cottage industry dedicated to making gadgets that help alleviate the problem.
My roof is as quiet as it gets. Though, this was more my luck than any judgement. I only read about the problem after I had bought the car.
In addition, in the case of a targa, I suggest that you get it up to speed on a dual carriageway or, better still, a motorway. Badly fitted targa roofs can create awful wind roar. Enough to drive passengers to distraction. They're fiddly to adjust. Though, there is a cottage industry dedicated to making gadgets that help alleviate the problem.
My roof is as quiet as it gets. Though, this was more my luck than any judgement. I only read about the problem after I had bought the car.
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