993 rs lightweight or clubsport
Discussion
Mark_H said:
flemke said:
Mark_H said:
Looking for a an A1 low mileage example that I can cherish... and track occasionally of course! Normally I would only consider a clubsport, but I am getting a little bored of track days, so will consider a lightweight...but must have the rsr spoilers on.
When you say, "lightweight", do you mean an RS Comfort version?Wasn't there only two road versions - 993 RS and 993 RS Clubsport? Where does comfort come from?
I use the term lightweight, as I used to have a 964 rs.
People often refer to the former as the "Comfort", simply to distinguish it from the Clubsport.
Both cars are supposedly 100kg lighter than the normal 993 Carrera 2. As between the two RSs, however, the Clubsport appears to weigh less.
I think the lighweight became known as the comfort as many cars were ordered in "german dentist" spec.......the most commonly found extras are all or a combination of airbags, a/c, electric windows and sports recliners in place of recaro bucket seats. Rear seats on a few and the legend of fitted sunroofs, although I have yet to see one of those fitted thankfully.
I do know of a rather nice clubsport fitted with a/c from the factory......so there are no hard and fast rules about the specs that were actually delivered to customers.
I do know of a rather nice clubsport fitted with a/c from the factory......so there are no hard and fast rules about the specs that were actually delivered to customers.
Edited by clubsport on Monday 10th July 22:23
clubsport said:
I think the lighweight became known as the comfort as many cars were ordered in "german dentist" spec.......the most commonly found extras are all or a combination of airbags, a/c, electric windows and sports recliners in place of recaro bucket seats. Rear seats on a few and the legend of fitted sunroofs, although I have yet to see one of those fitted thankfully.
I do know of a rather nice clubsport fitted with a/c from the factory......so there are no hard and fast rules about the specs that were actually delivered to customers.
That may be. It is plainly the more comfortable of the two. I do know of a rather nice clubsport fitted with a/c from the factory......so there are no hard and fast rules about the specs that were actually delivered to customers.
It would, however, be slightly odd for a manufacturer to offer two models of a car and call the heavier of the two the "lightweight", wouldn't you say?
Guys, there is a lot of nonsense being talked here. I have the 993RS brochure in front of me so here are the facts;
1. there were two variants available: the 993 RS and the 993 RS clubsport. The latter is sometimes referred to (in the UK at any rate) as an RSR but this not an official title. I believe there are two RHD clubsports in existence but Paul McLean is the expert so I will leave it to him to jump in on this.
2. a ‘Comfort’ model does not exist.
3. the standard 993 RS has no airbags, no elec windows, no air con, no radio. It DOES have hard-back non-reclining sports seats, 3-spoke steering wheel and small wing package.
4. many options were available including air con, elec windows, airbags, radio and sport-comfort seats which do recline. It is the latter type of seat where this ‘Comfort’ idea comes from – most cars with these seats specified also have the other options. The big wing package was also available as a cost-option.
5. the Clubsport package involves the following and is extremely rare: single mass flywheel, steel synchromesh rings, strut brace, roll cage, big wings and even less interior trim. Believe this is very close to the spec on the Cup cars. Clearly some of these items could be added to the standard car in production or afterwards.
So there you have it. Virtually every car you see will be the standard item plus the various option permutations.
For instance my car is a standard 993 RS fitted at the factory with air con, elec windows, airbags, radio, sport-comfort seats and small wings.
Subsequently I have fitted it with a strut brace, half roll-cage and the 3-spoke steering wheel. In my view the big wings look silly, cost a packet and do very little
If the clutch ever needs changing (nothing ever seems to wear out on this car!) then I will consider the single-mass flywheel as it significantly improves throttle response at the expense of some driveline noise.
Paul – would be interested to hear your thoughts on this – have I missed anything?
Hope this helps.
1. there were two variants available: the 993 RS and the 993 RS clubsport. The latter is sometimes referred to (in the UK at any rate) as an RSR but this not an official title. I believe there are two RHD clubsports in existence but Paul McLean is the expert so I will leave it to him to jump in on this.
2. a ‘Comfort’ model does not exist.
3. the standard 993 RS has no airbags, no elec windows, no air con, no radio. It DOES have hard-back non-reclining sports seats, 3-spoke steering wheel and small wing package.
4. many options were available including air con, elec windows, airbags, radio and sport-comfort seats which do recline. It is the latter type of seat where this ‘Comfort’ idea comes from – most cars with these seats specified also have the other options. The big wing package was also available as a cost-option.
5. the Clubsport package involves the following and is extremely rare: single mass flywheel, steel synchromesh rings, strut brace, roll cage, big wings and even less interior trim. Believe this is very close to the spec on the Cup cars. Clearly some of these items could be added to the standard car in production or afterwards.
So there you have it. Virtually every car you see will be the standard item plus the various option permutations.
For instance my car is a standard 993 RS fitted at the factory with air con, elec windows, airbags, radio, sport-comfort seats and small wings.
Subsequently I have fitted it with a strut brace, half roll-cage and the 3-spoke steering wheel. In my view the big wings look silly, cost a packet and do very little
If the clutch ever needs changing (nothing ever seems to wear out on this car!) then I will consider the single-mass flywheel as it significantly improves throttle response at the expense of some driveline noise.
Paul – would be interested to hear your thoughts on this – have I missed anything?
Hope this helps.
Flemke, there is an undeniable logic to your "lightweight" point, not that a clubby is totally uncomfortable (?)...helps if you are a little deaf before purchase though 
As Paul says 7 uk rhd cars made, but 5 left I am led to believe,,,,always strange to me as the M003 cage is still in lhd form with the roof bar now over the passenger on the ones I have seen.
Often called RSR by dealers at the time so that they didn't have so much association with the much cheaper 968 clubsport version available at the time.
RRG, you mention nonsense being spoken.(?)....you realy should try the larger spoiler kit on track if you get a chance, it is very effective.
With respect to the no cost option of the larger aerokit would have been taken up by more people if that was the case......I understand those who took it paid £5k for the privelidge...does it not mention that in your brochure?
I have owned and tracked both versions, the airbagged, leccy window cars really do dilute the experience as far as I am concerned. You really don't know what you are missing, more really is less in this case
Not seen Paul Mc on here for a while, but there are a few things you missed from the standard specs......
I changed to the ligtweight flywheel, on a standard car,,do drive one before having it fitted. The driveline noise up to about 2500 rpm really changes the car and you will either love it ...or not.
As Paul says 7 uk rhd cars made, but 5 left I am led to believe,,,,always strange to me as the M003 cage is still in lhd form with the roof bar now over the passenger on the ones I have seen.
Often called RSR by dealers at the time so that they didn't have so much association with the much cheaper 968 clubsport version available at the time.
RRG, you mention nonsense being spoken.(?)....you realy should try the larger spoiler kit on track if you get a chance, it is very effective.
With respect to the no cost option of the larger aerokit would have been taken up by more people if that was the case......I understand those who took it paid £5k for the privelidge...does it not mention that in your brochure?
I have owned and tracked both versions, the airbagged, leccy window cars really do dilute the experience as far as I am concerned. You really don't know what you are missing, more really is less in this case
Not seen Paul Mc on here for a while, but there are a few things you missed from the standard specs......
I changed to the ligtweight flywheel, on a standard car,,do drive one before having it fitted. The driveline noise up to about 2500 rpm really changes the car and you will either love it ...or not.
Edited by clubsport on Tuesday 11th July 08:32
sorry - the 'nonsense' thing was supposed to be a tongue in cheek just keen we done start myths that there is such thing as a 'comfort' model.
ditto the comment about the big wing - thought that would stimulate some response
I have no experience of it, but would love to have a demonstration sometime...
would also like to get a demo of the lightweight flywheel; love the idea of better throttle response; not sure I would want a huge increase in transmission noise.
RRG
just keen we done start myths that there is such thing as a 'comfort' model. ditto the comment about the big wing - thought that would stimulate some response
I have no experience of it, but would love to have a demonstration sometime... would also like to get a demo of the lightweight flywheel; love the idea of better throttle response; not sure I would want a huge increase in transmission noise.
RRG
Mark, I thought that was answered in the thread?....the use of the term comfort describes a standard non clubsport version that has many of the items found on a regular 993 C2, which were deleted on a standard RS, specified back as extras. Increasing both weight and comfort!
I wouldn't worry, it doesn't make an RS specified in such a way a bad car at all....in fact I would say with a/c the standard car is genuinely a perfect allrounder.
Another reason "comfort" may be used more in recent years is because the GT3 comes in both comfort & clubsport (vaguely!) versions......perhaps this has been adopted to the 993 versions?
I wouldn't worry, it doesn't make an RS specified in such a way a bad car at all....in fact I would say with a/c the standard car is genuinely a perfect allrounder.
Another reason "comfort" may be used more in recent years is because the GT3 comes in both comfort & clubsport (vaguely!) versions......perhaps this has been adopted to the 993 versions?
clubsport said:
Mark, I thought that was answered in the thread?....the use of the term comfort describes a standard non clubsport version that has many of the items found on a regular 993 C2, which were deleted on a standard RS, specified back as extras. Increasing both weight and comfort!
I wouldn't worry, it doesn't make an RS specified in such a way a bad car at all....in fact I would say with a/c the standard car is genuinely a perfect allrounder.
Another reason "comfort" may be used more in recent years is because the GT3 comes in both comfort & clubsport (vaguely!) versions......perhaps this has been adopted to the 993 versions?
I wouldn't worry, it doesn't make an RS specified in such a way a bad car at all....in fact I would say with a/c the standard car is genuinely a perfect allrounder.
Another reason "comfort" may be used more in recent years is because the GT3 comes in both comfort & clubsport (vaguely!) versions......perhaps this has been adopted to the 993 versions?
Sorry - didn't explain my self.
I am fully aware of the two variants and what the differences are. I was referring to my original comment - basically I was being pedantic.
Anyway, anyother cars out there?!
Are you being pedantic...or really asking about other cars now?? Hard to tell!
you must check www.gtclassics.co.uk Hopefully Paul will find you a car.
Or contact another Paul,,, bergmeister...PCGB 993RS register secretary, he often knows when cars are available.
fairly quiet on availablity front.....I have been keenly tracking car & prices for the last few years.....when cars do come up prices can be all over the place, there are often histories and stories attatched ....a relatively small community so quite a few of the cars are known.
you must check www.gtclassics.co.uk Hopefully Paul will find you a car.
Or contact another Paul,,, bergmeister...PCGB 993RS register secretary, he often knows when cars are available.
fairly quiet on availablity front.....I have been keenly tracking car & prices for the last few years.....when cars do come up prices can be all over the place, there are often histories and stories attatched ....a relatively small community so quite a few of the cars are known.
Mark_H said:
RRG said:
just keen we done start myths that there is such thing as a 'comfort' model.
Hence my question - "Where does comfort come from?"
Maybe it also has something to do with the history of the RS Porsches... the previous 964RS was available in 'lightweight' (standard), 'clubsport' and lard-arsed 'touring' spec. A mercifully rare option.
I imagine 'touring' over the years became synonymous with comfort, and when the 993RS came out people assumed that the ones with air con and lazyboy recliners were 'tourings' or 'comforts'. Just a guess
I was lucky enough to experience an 993 RS Clubsport on the track recently from the passenger seat with a highly compentent driver at the wheel and it was simply astonishing (on Cup tyres).
These pictures were taken earlier in the day when the owner chose to run on some knackered old 205's on the rear axle (with spacers) just for the joy of drifting...
These pictures were taken earlier in the day when the owner chose to run on some knackered old 205's on the rear axle (with spacers) just for the joy of drifting...
Edited by MogulBoy on Tuesday 11th July 09:55
clubsport said:
Are you being pedantic...or really asking about other cars now?? Hard to tell!
you must check www.gtclassics.co.uk Hopefully Paul will find you a car.
Or contact another Paul,,, bergmeister...PCGB 993RS register secretary, he often knows when cars are available.
fairly quiet on availablity front.....I have been keenly tracking car & prices for the last few years.....when cars do come up prices can be all over the place, there are often histories and stories attatched ....a relatively small community so quite a few of the cars are known.
you must check www.gtclassics.co.uk Hopefully Paul will find you a car.
Or contact another Paul,,, bergmeister...PCGB 993RS register secretary, he often knows when cars are available.
fairly quiet on availablity front.....I have been keenly tracking car & prices for the last few years.....when cars do come up prices can be all over the place, there are often histories and stories attatched ....a relatively small community so quite a few of the cars are known.
As mentioned earlier in the thread I have spoken to most dealers in the UK and some in Germany, including Tom Schmitz of H&S who I bought my 964 rs clubsport from. Basically there is very little around, hence the thread - hoping that PH member would know of one coming up.
I will get in contact with Paul - good call!
Dom, you are right with the analogy...going back to the original Touring versions of the 2.7.
Also there were many more lhd RS than rhd.....I have seen many german cars advertised as fitted with "Komfort packet"
I assume this was a comfort pack avaiable in the fatherland with air, leccy windows, airbags and recliners...or a combination of these.
Another reason for the comfort name.....
Also there were many more lhd RS than rhd.....I have seen many german cars advertised as fitted with "Komfort packet"
I assume this was a comfort pack avaiable in the fatherland with air, leccy windows, airbags and recliners...or a combination of these.
Another reason for the comfort name.....
MogulBoy said:
I was lucky enough to experience an 993 RS Clubsport on the track recently from the passenger seat with a highly compentent driver at the wheel and it was simply astonishing (on Cup tyres).
These pictures were taken earlier in the day when the owner chose to run on some knackered old 205's on the rear axle (with spacers) just for the joy of drifting...
]
Sorry, but that's not a Clubsport. These pictures were taken earlier in the day when the owner chose to run on some knackered old 205's on the rear axle (with spacers) just for the joy of drifting...
]That's a Comfort, er...Lightweight, er...the RS with more stuff than the Clubsport.
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