Looking to buy a 430 in jan.
Discussion
Kyodo said:
It looks a lovely car, enjoy!!
One thing though - take it easy. There was a chap on the CS forum who bought a nice F430 spider and stuffed it backwards into a lamp post after trying to give it beans coming off a roundabout (he'd owned the car about three days). I that case it was 'almost' funny as he asked for advice before picking it up and everyone said, you guessed it… "take it easy" !!!
Excellent advice - I am planning on taking mine up to CAT Driver Training to get a better understanding of the car. Can't recommend enough taking a car to a practice ground to first understand how it and you work. Very limited space for correction and learning to deal with your own reactions in a new super car and a public road.One thing though - take it easy. There was a chap on the CS forum who bought a nice F430 spider and stuffed it backwards into a lamp post after trying to give it beans coming off a roundabout (he'd owned the car about three days). I that case it was 'almost' funny as he asked for advice before picking it up and everyone said, you guessed it… "take it easy" !!!
F430 prices seem to be trending upwards already. Don't know if this is a natural "approaching spring" upturn or what...
Saw this example appear yesterday:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
Granted this is a main dealer, but as near as dammit £100k for a 430 with standard seats? I guess mileage really does have a major effect.
I made an close offer on a car that was up at a main dealer for just shy of £95k a week or so ago, which was knocked back and I was told the car subsequently sold the following day, so it seems they are shifting at these prices?
Great for current owners, not so great for those in the market to buy.
Saw this example appear yesterday:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
Granted this is a main dealer, but as near as dammit £100k for a 430 with standard seats? I guess mileage really does have a major effect.
I made an close offer on a car that was up at a main dealer for just shy of £95k a week or so ago, which was knocked back and I was told the car subsequently sold the following day, so it seems they are shifting at these prices?
Great for current owners, not so great for those in the market to buy.
Durzel said:
Is it £100k lovely? 
That all depends on how you feel - Is a a Ferrari 360 Manual £80K lovely. http://www.simonfurlonger.co.uk/docs2/cars/EukEZyA...
It is a beautiful car.
Is a 996 GT3 MK1 £100K lovely?
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/996...
Fattrader said:
That all depends on how you feel - Is a a Ferrari 360 Manual £80K lovely.
http://www.simonfurlonger.co.uk/docs2/cars/EukEZyA...
It is a beautiful car.
Is a 996 GT3 MK1 £100K lovely?
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/996...
I guess I didn't mean whether it was worth the money, since worth is subjective really. I was more talking about whether this was now the reality of used F430 prices, £100k and beyond. http://www.simonfurlonger.co.uk/docs2/cars/EukEZyA...
It is a beautiful car.
Is a 996 GT3 MK1 £100K lovely?
http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/911/996...
Regards this car specifically - it has got low mileage relatively speaking, but isn't "fully loaded" spec wise, it has the basic seats for one.
If £100k+ is the new paradigm, before a presumed typical soft-top upward trend as we approach spring/summer, then it's going to be knocking on the door of early 458s before long.
Perhaps I'm being a little hyperbolic based on limited statistics..
I'm also shopping with no finance required and no trade in for a 360/430 or early Gallardo. Some cars are just looking like plain bad value at the moment - with virtually no private sellers on the market it feels like the trade is trying to 'set' the values. What I find hard to understand is why 30k mile 430s are barely (or seem to be) any cheaper than those with 10k miles. Anyways, the hunt continues for a good low ownership car.....PM me if you have any leads!
Steven944 said:
I'm also shopping with no finance required and no trade in for a 360/430 or early Gallardo. Some cars are just looking like plain bad value at the moment - with virtually no private sellers on the market it feels like the trade is trying to 'set' the values. What I find hard to understand is why 30k mile 430s are barely (or seem to be) any cheaper than those with 10k miles. Anyways, the hunt continues for a good low ownership car.....PM me if you have any leads!
The biggest problem in my opinion is people's perception of mileage. A 2005 F430 with 30k miles on the clock is 3k miles a year.... Having just sold mine I think new owners expect previous owners to not have driven the car. I have a lot of supercar experience and a used car is almost always better loved than a garage queen and I think that's why the prices are so closely matched.Not to mention the other argument of the fact the 360 / 430 are pretty solid investments which holds residuals almost regardless of other factors.
Am I too cynical in wondering how many of these cars have their mileage turned back after a few years? They often seem to do 3k miles a year for the first few years, but after 10, there don't seem to be many 30,000 mile cars. Surely an average early 360 should be expected to have 45,000 miles by now, but that would be quite a high mileage car based on recorded mileages. It looks suspicious to me...
keith jecks said:
Am I too cynical in wondering how many of these cars have their mileage turned back after a few years? They often seem to do 3k miles a year for the first few years, but after 10, there don't seem to be many 30,000 mile cars. Surely an average early 360 should be expected to have 45,000 miles by now, but that would be quite a high mileage car based on recorded mileages. It looks suspicious to me...
I think yopu could well be. I'm not yet a Ferrari owner. I have a little Lotus instead. But after the initial flush of enthusiasm which saw me doing maybe 5k miles in a year it has gradually dropped until I did 750 miles year before last and in 2014 I sorned it. So its done 13k miles in my 7 years ownership.The reason is that I dont use it on motorways ( its not an ideal motorway car) , cant use it more than 2 up, and never take it out just for fun. So using it means that I first have to have a reason to travel over the local B roads to somewhere. And thats something I dont have that often.
Why dont I take it out just for a run? I dont know TBH. I do just than on my motorbike but not with the car.
In short I can understand low mileages. A Ferrari would be even less useable than my Lotus is for no other reason than I would fear leaving it parked on a side street. Keying.
And the Ferrari owner that I know personally behaves in very much the same way as me with my lotus. He find the family banger, in his case a Mini Coope Works, to be more useable
Edited by bordseye on Sunday 25th January 17:59
keith jecks said:
Am I too cynical in wondering how many of these cars have their mileage turned back after a few years? They often seem to do 3k miles a year for the first few years, but after 10, there don't seem to be many 30,000 mile cars. Surely an average early 360 should be expected to have 45,000 miles by now, but that would be quite a high mileage car based on recorded mileages. It looks suspicious to me...
I think the same. They are stupidly good fun so how do people refrain from driving them? It also doesn't make sense buying something relatively expensive and not using it.I guess it will remain 'one of those things'!
Edited by mwstewart on Sunday 25th January 20:26
keith jecks said:
Am I too cynical in wondering how many of these cars have their mileage turned back after a few years? They often seem to do 3k miles a year for the first few years, but after 10, there don't seem to be many 30,000 mile cars. Surely an average early 360 should be expected to have 45,000 miles by now, but that would be quite a high mileage car based on recorded mileages. It looks suspicious to me...
Absolutely the case. Stacks of then has their clocks put back. It's ridiculously easy to do and doesn't even cost much. Just goofed it. I bought a high miles pretty much knowing that for a low miler I'd be paying a premium for what is actually a car that's probably done a stack of miles. Some of my work colleagues will readjust their mileage almost quarterly on their ferraris. The crazy thing is that many buyers will throw their head in the sand and buy the car for more than it's worth. The cars generaly aren't in bad condition because they get used, but, they've been clocked. keith jecks said:
Am I too cynical in wondering how many of these cars have their mileage turned back after a few years? They often seem to do 3k miles a year for the first few years, but after 10, there don't seem to be many 30,000 mile cars. Surely an average early 360 should be expected to have 45,000 miles by now, but that would be quite a high mileage car based on recorded mileages. It looks suspicious to me...
Absolutely the case. Stacks of then has their clocks put back. It's ridiculously easy to do and doesn't even cost much. Just goofed it. I bought a high miles pretty much knowing that for a low miler I'd be paying a premium for what is actually a car that's probably done a stack of miles. Some of my work colleagues will readjust their mileage almost quarterly on their ferraris. The crazy thing is that many buyers will throw their head in the sand and buy the car for more than it's worth. The cars generaly aren't in bad condition because they get used, but, they've been clocked. SlartiF430 said:
Absolutely the case. Stacks of then has their clocks put back. It's ridiculously easy to do and doesn't even cost much. Just goofed it. I bought a high miles pretty much knowing that for a low miler I'd be paying a premium for what is actually a car that's probably done a stack of miles. Some of my work colleagues will readjust their mileage almost quarterly on their ferraris. The crazy thing is that many buyers will throw their head in the sand and buy the car for more than it's worth. The cars generaly aren't in bad condition because they get used, but, they've been clocked.
Blimey!I guess that's the reason to buy on condition and history rather than mileage then. I know we did!
With the greatest of respect I would tend to assume that the people making the most noise about the prevalence of clocked Ferraris have a vested interest in fostering that belief, i.e. because they themselves own "high" mileage (genuinely) Ferraris, thus talking the value up.
I don't doubt that in a market where there is quite the premium in very low mileage (sub 10k) cars there is clocking going on, but if it's so easy as claimed, and if the person doing it is shrewd enough to trim it between services, then you'd probably never be any the wiser as a buyer anyway. Meanwhile the market keeps rumbling on, treating these low mileage cars at face value and adding a premium to them accordingly.
I must admit, like Steven944, I do find it peculiar how strong the prices remain on high mileage 430s - e.g. 30k+ miles, particularly people looking for private sales. If you bought one of these cars and then tried to chop them straight back to a dealer I'd assume you'd take a serious bath. I've always assumed the axiom of when selling privately that you have to pitch yourself somewhere between what a dealer would offer you cash wise for your car, and what they would retail it for on their forecourt held true - but to look at some (most?) of the prices for the admittedly rare private sales the sellers don't seem to have got that memo.
Kyodo said:
Blimey!
I guess that's the reason to buy on condition and history rather than mileage then. I know we did!
Definitely the way to go, but it pays to have some idea of what end of the market you're entering, etc.I guess that's the reason to buy on condition and history rather than mileage then. I know we did!
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 27th January 10:33
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