Looking to buy a 430 in jan.
Discussion
I would assume they will be 2 very different cars Mike, the GTR was perfect, the ultimate road going machine that is great when you get it, them you start to drive it and learn how it all works and it gets better and better, I did 190 at Vmax (search "190v1" on youtube) and it felt like it had so much power left as well as being totally stable, I even drifted it as 70 on the way back and it just does its thing. They really are amazing machines in every way possible however........ It's too perfect and clinical, and although has a hand built engine and all that gumf its a mass produced Japanese car that more importantly, isn't a Ferrari. Let's not forget a standard GTR laps the TG track quicker than an Enzo and technically it's a 4 seater Datsun!
Lambos, Veyrons etc are all good, but they're not the car that was on a poster on my bedroom wall as a child and as someone who is a total car fanatic I know I'm going to love the Ferrari. I doubt it'll be as fast or handle as well as the GTR, but I won't care as its an icon and I'm so excited that it's finally going to happen.
Have left messages with a few people and hoping to view some tomorrow, I have 3 I want to see and although I can do it very factually I think it'll come down to how I feel when I see them for real and learn the history of that specific car.
Lambos, Veyrons etc are all good, but they're not the car that was on a poster on my bedroom wall as a child and as someone who is a total car fanatic I know I'm going to love the Ferrari. I doubt it'll be as fast or handle as well as the GTR, but I won't care as its an icon and I'm so excited that it's finally going to happen.
Have left messages with a few people and hoping to view some tomorrow, I have 3 I want to see and although I can do it very factually I think it'll come down to how I feel when I see them for real and learn the history of that specific car.
GRBF430F1 said:
I would still rather have a lowish mileage ( 3,000 miles pa ) high enthusiast owner car than a high mileage low enthusiast owner car as items still wear and tear. Any little niggles I've had with previous cars I've sorted out "money no object" so the next owner ends up with a spot on car which isn't even carrying a premium especially if traded.
If you buy a garage queen you pay a premium which disappears the moment you use it and there can be problems with a car that sits unused for long periods of time.
Lightly used well maintained cars with lots of invoices strangely enough seem to be in the best condition as well
Ferrari dealer has people queuing up to buy my p/x's usually
Good points well made. If you buy a garage queen you pay a premium which disappears the moment you use it and there can be problems with a car that sits unused for long periods of time.
Lightly used well maintained cars with lots of invoices strangely enough seem to be in the best condition as well
Ferrari dealer has people queuing up to buy my p/x's usually
The market is sadly such that many people expect to find a virgin who is amazing in bed.
Imo the 430 is probably one of the most usable daily driver supercars money can buy. Whilst it's true, perhaps, that actually driving it everyday will take some of the shine off I do also think people worry too much about what the next owner will think, to the point where they don't actually fully enjoy it themselves.
Different strokes for different folks of course, but I can think of few greater things to lose money on, with a smile on your face.
I wouldn't personally worry about a "high" mileage F430, so long as it has been maintained accordingly.
CGF993 said:
SlartiF430
Low mileage say 9000 miles and folk are hinting at cars being clocked or disconnected.
Exactly this. I steer well clear (literally and figuratively) of cars with low mileage - I'm more suspicious of those than I am concerned about cars with higher miles. If they haven't had their odomoters messsed around with then they probably have all manner of unaddressed gremlins either waiting to jump out, or simply come into existence for lack of use. I have friends that have purchased low mileage Ferraris and Lambos wherein they've spent an awful lot of time getting a long string of "little things" fixed here and there. Conversely I've owned a variety of marques, all of which have been used daily. Only one gave me any problems (there's always one bad egg!) albeit stemming from a relatively minor issue (dodgy alternator). Each to their own, I don't mind taking a hit on my car when sale time comes, I lost my father just a few months ago and it really did teach me that life is short and you might as well enjoy it! What is a car after all other carefully crafted metal, plastic and other bits?Low mileage say 9000 miles and folk are hinting at cars being clocked or disconnected.
SlartiF430 said:
Actually, the cheapest red coupe with F1 transmission is £67,950 - it's a lesser spec and a year older.
Yes but 20k less miles, in Ferrari terms that's a hell of a lot !I don't agree with the whole ferrari mileage crap but the market is dictated by it, unfortunately a 42k mile F430 needs to be considerably less than the 20k milers to sell... All IMO obviously...
welcome to the world of trying to sell a high end car privately... tried it with my gallardo spyder... loads of calls, mostly traders with there nonsense, you may get lucky and find someone on here .. in the end put it on S.O.R at a dealer as there are very few buyers at this level who don't want finance.. good luck and enjoy the emails/calls, I bet they have already started!
SlartiF430 said:
I lost my father just a few months ago and it really did teach me that life is short and you might as well enjoy it! What is a car after all other carefully crafted metal, plastic and other bits?
Sorry to hear that. I too lost my father late last year and it was a catalyst for me to stop hesitating over various aspects of my life (I'm pretty much the definition of anti-Carpe diem). As you say, beyond doing the obvious and ensuring that you get in for yourself at the right price, everything else is in the lap of the Gods so you shouldn't stress over it. In fact, as a general rule I think the worst thing you could do is buy one of these cars and live in constant terror of its potential maladies. Not only is it personally stressful, but it ruins the magic.
agree with those points - life is for living it goes by so quickly. Having just bought my first F430 I think you can get stuck on trying to get the cheapest car as possible. Unfortunately pushing prices down generally does not equate to achieving the quality you want.
Having come from having a Porsche GT3 it is important to keep the cars in the best condition as possible to enjoy. Enjoy the search Roso Red with Nero interior looks nice. I went fro Nero and Nero - you won't be disappointed.
Having come from having a Porsche GT3 it is important to keep the cars in the best condition as possible to enjoy. Enjoy the search Roso Red with Nero interior looks nice. I went fro Nero and Nero - you won't be disappointed.
So much advice here, thank you all. I still haven't viewed any and is difficult already. I want a car that will lose little value and fulfils all I expect of it..........
The one at Nick Cartwright's is the highest priced I like at £73k yet comes from a respected dealer and has carbon brakes, some may see that as a negative though due to the cost on replacements and will I actually need them. It has 20000 miles and looks pretty perfect in many ways plus has the major benefit of being supplied and inspected by Nick. The thing is I want to use it and within a year may put over 3000 miles on it which may reduce its value?
There's another at Hamilton Grays, reasonably priced at £67k and has 23000 miles. Seems a good fair car to set as a price base.
Slati's asking price is very low, and although he's not a trader that offers the obvious frilly benefits when buying a car like this it's more than reflected in his asking price and the Ferrari warranty / History more than makes up for this, however the Ferrari warranty doesn't cover wear and tear where as if you bought from a dealer and a track rod end decided to fall off 10 mile down the road you could take it back and have it rectified. He also has the carbon seats which at 6'3" I'm going to need at some stage so this car makes a lot of sense to buy.
Although I want my dream car cost is a major factor here, all 3 could be perfect with no issues and if not for mileage and the re sale fears if I needed to sell it I'd take the lowest priced one which let's face it is £10000 less than the others I'm considering....... £10000! That's 2 Rolex submariners for gods sake (I don't own one by the way, just a good example!) a huge price difference yet I also feel that as this huge event in my life is so special I need to make the right decision and that all 3 are perfectly priced considering their heritage and spec / mileage.
Could someone please choose for me?!
:-)
The one at Nick Cartwright's is the highest priced I like at £73k yet comes from a respected dealer and has carbon brakes, some may see that as a negative though due to the cost on replacements and will I actually need them. It has 20000 miles and looks pretty perfect in many ways plus has the major benefit of being supplied and inspected by Nick. The thing is I want to use it and within a year may put over 3000 miles on it which may reduce its value?
There's another at Hamilton Grays, reasonably priced at £67k and has 23000 miles. Seems a good fair car to set as a price base.
Slati's asking price is very low, and although he's not a trader that offers the obvious frilly benefits when buying a car like this it's more than reflected in his asking price and the Ferrari warranty / History more than makes up for this, however the Ferrari warranty doesn't cover wear and tear where as if you bought from a dealer and a track rod end decided to fall off 10 mile down the road you could take it back and have it rectified. He also has the carbon seats which at 6'3" I'm going to need at some stage so this car makes a lot of sense to buy.
Although I want my dream car cost is a major factor here, all 3 could be perfect with no issues and if not for mileage and the re sale fears if I needed to sell it I'd take the lowest priced one which let's face it is £10000 less than the others I'm considering....... £10000! That's 2 Rolex submariners for gods sake (I don't own one by the way, just a good example!) a huge price difference yet I also feel that as this huge event in my life is so special I need to make the right decision and that all 3 are perfectly priced considering their heritage and spec / mileage.
Could someone please choose for me?!
:-)
Easy :-)
OK. I'm despite having one to sell, I'm going to try being as pragmatic as possible...
1. Buying from a dealer. You only have any benefit if you buy from an actual Ferrari main dealer. These are the only guys that can really put in good-will claims in the event that something goes wrong and is not covered by warranty. Even saying this, I guarantee they will not replace wear and tear items under any kind of good will unless there's some astronomically good reason for them to do so. I've seen it before, they're lovely to deal with pre-sale, you're on your own + warranty post-sale.
2. Depreciation. The more you pay up front, the more you'll lose - period. Dealer cars have a margin built, you will at least lose that the moment you drive away. If you buy cheap (and provided the car is in good nick), you can out the miles on and sell on in a couple of years having had the full enjoyment, without the capital loss.
3. Frilly benefits. In all my years of buying from dealers, the only benefit they offer (IMHO) is choice and convenience. I can go to Stratstone in Wilmslow and see a few cars in one trip - that's about it. Finance? Oracle and others will finance private purchases. Warranties? Ferrari will sell these to you anyway. Good coffee? Debatable - most private Ferrari sellers have decent coffee machines at home.
4. Carbon brakes - unless you really really want them I'd stay clear. They need to separately weighed/inspected for conidtion. A simple stone caught on the disc can damage them irreparably and they're frankly uneconomical to replace unless you're going to be tracking the car.
Here's the sales pitch - my car is priced low. I simply want a quick sale so that I can get into my next car. If you just do 3000 miles you'll likely lose nothing at all in a year. Track rods won't fall off because a pre-purchase inspection will make sure of that. In fact, it's due a service now and the service will highlight any issues as the inspection happens as a part of that anyway. Sports seats - they're brilliant and at your height they'll make a huge difference to your enjoyment. They're also very rare (they were a pretty expensive option) so get this one before it goes and you regret it! ;-)
OK. I'm despite having one to sell, I'm going to try being as pragmatic as possible...
1. Buying from a dealer. You only have any benefit if you buy from an actual Ferrari main dealer. These are the only guys that can really put in good-will claims in the event that something goes wrong and is not covered by warranty. Even saying this, I guarantee they will not replace wear and tear items under any kind of good will unless there's some astronomically good reason for them to do so. I've seen it before, they're lovely to deal with pre-sale, you're on your own + warranty post-sale.
2. Depreciation. The more you pay up front, the more you'll lose - period. Dealer cars have a margin built, you will at least lose that the moment you drive away. If you buy cheap (and provided the car is in good nick), you can out the miles on and sell on in a couple of years having had the full enjoyment, without the capital loss.
3. Frilly benefits. In all my years of buying from dealers, the only benefit they offer (IMHO) is choice and convenience. I can go to Stratstone in Wilmslow and see a few cars in one trip - that's about it. Finance? Oracle and others will finance private purchases. Warranties? Ferrari will sell these to you anyway. Good coffee? Debatable - most private Ferrari sellers have decent coffee machines at home.
4. Carbon brakes - unless you really really want them I'd stay clear. They need to separately weighed/inspected for conidtion. A simple stone caught on the disc can damage them irreparably and they're frankly uneconomical to replace unless you're going to be tracking the car.
Here's the sales pitch - my car is priced low. I simply want a quick sale so that I can get into my next car. If you just do 3000 miles you'll likely lose nothing at all in a year. Track rods won't fall off because a pre-purchase inspection will make sure of that. In fact, it's due a service now and the service will highlight any issues as the inspection happens as a part of that anyway. Sports seats - they're brilliant and at your height they'll make a huge difference to your enjoyment. They're also very rare (they were a pretty expensive option) so get this one before it goes and you regret it! ;-)
You are kind of correct in the more you pay the more you will lose under normal circumstances, however we are and have been for a while in a stagnent to slowly rising market for 430's so not so applicable.
I have bought everyone of my cars privately and sold privately bar the 360 I just sold via TFC and the LP550 I just bought.
The more money I have had in a car the harder it is to sell.
Your right the warranty is generally not worth having.
I pay for my cars outright (with a bit of sponsorship from Barclaycard)but an awfull lot of people want finance and px.
Your car will sell at early 60,s
Honestly mate, give it to Dave at TFC to sell for you, tell them what you want for it and they will return you that money if your sensible, they will warrant the car and will fully service beforehand and inspect in order to stand behind that warranty, no timewasters at your door of a weekend and countless emails.
I found there charges to be reasonable all things considered.
If I were you I would put an add up at 65k and see what happens for a week or so then give it to TFC
I have bought everyone of my cars privately and sold privately bar the 360 I just sold via TFC and the LP550 I just bought.
The more money I have had in a car the harder it is to sell.
Your right the warranty is generally not worth having.
I pay for my cars outright (with a bit of sponsorship from Barclaycard)but an awfull lot of people want finance and px.
Your car will sell at early 60,s
Honestly mate, give it to Dave at TFC to sell for you, tell them what you want for it and they will return you that money if your sensible, they will warrant the car and will fully service beforehand and inspect in order to stand behind that warranty, no timewasters at your door of a weekend and countless emails.
I found there charges to be reasonable all things considered.
If I were you I would put an add up at 65k and see what happens for a week or so then give it to TFC
I'm going through the process of selling mine and it amazes me how many people mention the Ferrari warranty and expect it to cover wear and tear items. Mine had a warranty when I bought it but almost all the work (95%) of it has not been covered. A month or two post purchase you might get some goodwill, but unlikely.
You want a car that's been looked after and the owner can prove it (just look at what I've had to spend on mine if you want to be scared!). Within reason, mileage is a stupid debate assuming the car is priced correctly. 3/4/5k per year over 6/7/8 years is nothing. My most troublesome car of all time was a 9k miler 5 year old Aston. My most reliable was my next 50k miler Aston.
You want a car that's been looked after and the owner can prove it (just look at what I've had to spend on mine if you want to be scared!). Within reason, mileage is a stupid debate assuming the car is priced correctly. 3/4/5k per year over 6/7/8 years is nothing. My most troublesome car of all time was a 9k miler 5 year old Aston. My most reliable was my next 50k miler Aston.
X7LDA said:
I'm going through the process of selling mine and it amazes me how many people mention the Ferrari warranty and expect it to cover wear and tear items. Mine had a warranty when I bought it but almost all the work (95%) of it has not been covered. A month or two post purchase you might get some goodwill, but unlikely.
You want a car that's been looked after and the owner can prove it (just look at what I've had to spend on mine if you want to be scared!). Within reason, mileage is a stupid debate assuming the car is priced correctly. 3/4/5k per year over 6/7/8 years is nothing. My most troublesome car of all time was a 9k miler 5 year old Aston. My most reliable was my next 50k miler Aston.
My DB9 Volante had 78k miles on it when I sold it! It always looked like new and never ever gave me a problem!You want a car that's been looked after and the owner can prove it (just look at what I've had to spend on mine if you want to be scared!). Within reason, mileage is a stupid debate assuming the car is priced correctly. 3/4/5k per year over 6/7/8 years is nothing. My most troublesome car of all time was a 9k miler 5 year old Aston. My most reliable was my next 50k miler Aston.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with a higher mileage car, as long as reflected in the price.
For all cars though I would want a full service history , with receipts showing work done etc.
If buying privately I would feel more confident if the seller has owned the car for a number of years and if a member of PH, even better
Good luck with search.
For all cars though I would want a full service history , with receipts showing work done etc.
If buying privately I would feel more confident if the seller has owned the car for a number of years and if a member of PH, even better
Good luck with search.
Edited by T4NG0 on Wednesday 31st December 17:58
SlartiF430 said:
4. Carbon brakes - unless you really really want them I'd stay clear. They need to separately weighed/inspected for conidtion. A simple stone caught on the disc can damage them irreparably and they're frankly uneconomical to replace unless you're going to be tracking the car.
Disagree. Carbon ceramic brakes complete the F430. The steel brakes are weedy by comparison and fade badly after just a few hard applications. I know as I've had both on my car.red_duke said:
Disagree. Carbon ceramic brakes complete the F430. The steel brakes are weedy by comparison and fade badly after just a few hard applications. I know as I've had both on my car.
Fair enough. I haven't owned a car with them, just going off experience from DBS and Ferrari friends who were forced to replace their disks. I started my buying process about 12 months ago and ended up with my lovely F430 in June which is my daily driver. It took a long time to find the right car for me - always buy and price on condition/history, it doesn't matter whether from a dealer or privately. In the end I bought mine privately, obtaining finance wasn't a problem.
I was shocked how many cars I enquired about were advertised as having a FFSH didn't even have what I would call a full service history let alone with Ferrari. It wasn't unusual for a basic oil/fluid change to be skipped for years at some point in it's history - I suspect because the owners weren't driving any miles (1000 miles per year !?) and thought it wasn't necessary. Car abuse which makes no sense especially on a high end asset.
What I learnt over the last 6 months about spec : manual seats are better for regular use as you can slide the seat back quickly for getting in or out - it makes the process easier and saves wear on the bolsters; standard stereo is good enough and there isn't speaker behind the seats which takes up useful storage space; steel discs are fine for fast road use and of course much cheaper to maintain; crema leather is fine for daily use, just have it professionally treated once a year; on the rarer cars like mine you can adjust the traction/suspension settings independently of how aggressive the gear shift is.
Have fun buying and owning!
I was shocked how many cars I enquired about were advertised as having a FFSH didn't even have what I would call a full service history let alone with Ferrari. It wasn't unusual for a basic oil/fluid change to be skipped for years at some point in it's history - I suspect because the owners weren't driving any miles (1000 miles per year !?) and thought it wasn't necessary. Car abuse which makes no sense especially on a high end asset.
What I learnt over the last 6 months about spec : manual seats are better for regular use as you can slide the seat back quickly for getting in or out - it makes the process easier and saves wear on the bolsters; standard stereo is good enough and there isn't speaker behind the seats which takes up useful storage space; steel discs are fine for fast road use and of course much cheaper to maintain; crema leather is fine for daily use, just have it professionally treated once a year; on the rarer cars like mine you can adjust the traction/suspension settings independently of how aggressive the gear shift is.
Have fun buying and owning!
I've never experienced brake fade with my steel brakes and never found them lacking, I don't do trackdays so perhaps I'm not trying hard enough!
I've covered 10k miles in two years and now at 37k, no expense has been spared on maintenance so I don't see the point in sparing the miles, thanks to an Indy specialist, the car is now better than when the dealer sold it to me.
Doing it again, i would happily buy a private car with higher miles, no warranty and Indy servicing, I passed on a few real bargains worrying about these things.
I've covered 10k miles in two years and now at 37k, no expense has been spared on maintenance so I don't see the point in sparing the miles, thanks to an Indy specialist, the car is now better than when the dealer sold it to me.
Doing it again, i would happily buy a private car with higher miles, no warranty and Indy servicing, I passed on a few real bargains worrying about these things.
red_duke said:
Disagree. Carbon ceramic brakes complete the F430. The steel brakes are weedy by comparison and fade badly after just a few hard applications. I know as I've had both on my car.
Me too, after my GT3 that was fitted with ceramics the most disappointing point on my 430 was the steel brakes, if I was the OP I'd be looking for a car with ceramicsGassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff