360 CS 430 Scuderia 458 Speciale
Discussion
As the base cars and cars in general have got better and better it is the law of diminishing return in terms of the improvements that can be made.
I agree the CS to Scuderia is a bigger step than Scuderia to Speciale.
However saying the Speciale is a 458 with some goodies is harsh to say the least.
There does come a point in any product ( car or other ) when its really at its optimal level and any improvements are kind of not worth the extra.
Things like heating steering wheels and air scarfs etc... are just like trinkets IMHO
If I had to have 1 only, (having just let my Scuderia go ), I would have to say it would be the Speciale as the last N/a V8.
If the depreciation curve follows a similar pattern to CS and Scuderia my plan would be to pick one up in 2 or 3 years time
I agree the CS to Scuderia is a bigger step than Scuderia to Speciale.
However saying the Speciale is a 458 with some goodies is harsh to say the least.
There does come a point in any product ( car or other ) when its really at its optimal level and any improvements are kind of not worth the extra.
Things like heating steering wheels and air scarfs etc... are just like trinkets IMHO
If I had to have 1 only, (having just let my Scuderia go ), I would have to say it would be the Speciale as the last N/a V8.
If the depreciation curve follows a similar pattern to CS and Scuderia my plan would be to pick one up in 2 or 3 years time
SteelySteve said:
Ive owned a CS and a Scuderia, the Scud was certainly faster and more modern in many ways
However, I kept the CS and I think any petrolhead that had driven both would make the same decision
Not tried a Speciale yet though
Agree with the first line but would come to the opposite conclusion on the second and am in the same position on the third. I can only assume you are less if a petrolhead than you think - LOL. However, I kept the CS and I think any petrolhead that had driven both would make the same decision
Not tried a Speciale yet though
OR perhaps it is just that we all have different opinions and I wouldn't dream of insinuating you are somehow less of a petrolhead because you have come to a different conclusion to me.
hazy said:
How long before the CS is worth more than a Speciale?? 
Not far off now.Dick Lovett just got this.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
AmoCS said:
Is that LHD or are CS prices coming down ? Seems cheap if RHD.As much as I think Speciale prices will come down, especially with the recently announced extra production, I'm not sure a low mileage regularly used CS will be worth more than the equivalent Speciale.
Ultra low mileage Collector cars will always carry a hefty premium but once cars have 20,000 miles + I think the price stagnates and is always going to be sub £200k
GRBF430F1 said:
AmoCS said:
Is that LHD or are CS prices coming down ? Seems cheap if RHD.As much as I think Speciale prices will come down, especially with the recently announced extra production, I'm not sure a low mileage regularly used CS will be worth more than the equivalent Speciale.
Ultra low mileage Collector cars will always carry a hefty premium but once cars have 20,000 miles + I think the price stagnates and is always going to be sub £200k
PHOENIXUK said:
Speaking with Ferrari yesterday they say there will be fewer Speciale's made than Scud's, and the last build is defiantly May/June……. So many stories flying around you just don't know what or who to believe…...
Wasn't Scuderia production something like 165 for the UK of which a lot have now been exported etc...I would be very surprised judging by owner/buyer threads on here coupled with those already for sale on the market if there wasn't already in excess of 165 Speciale's.
Ferrari are hardly likely to say there are loads of them and its a regular production not limited number car so they are building to demand. If there are less than 165 built that's because there isn't the demand and why the speculator cars are no longer fetching premiums
GRBF430F1 said:
Wasn't Scuderia production something like 165 for the UK of which a lot have now been exported etc...
I would be very surprised judging by owner/buyer threads on here coupled with those already for sale on the market if there wasn't already in excess of 165 Speciale's.
Ferrari are hardly likely to say there are loads of them and its a regular production not limited number car so they are building to demand. If there are less than 165 built that's because there isn't the demand and why the speculator cars are no longer fetching premiums
I've had a look at a few 'used' Speciales and post orders closing I was told by a few dealers that final order numbers were around 120. I would be very surprised judging by owner/buyer threads on here coupled with those already for sale on the market if there wasn't already in excess of 165 Speciale's.
Ferrari are hardly likely to say there are loads of them and its a regular production not limited number car so they are building to demand. If there are less than 165 built that's because there isn't the demand and why the speculator cars are no longer fetching premiums
It might be wrong but when the CS and Scuderia came to market there weren't so many options for road/track motors
whereas now we're almost spoilt for choice.
Edited by Johnnyforeigner on Saturday 21st February 21:49
GRBF430F1 said:
Wasn't Scuderia production something like 165 for the UK of which a lot have now been exported etc...
I would be very surprised judging by owner/buyer threads on here coupled with those already for sale on the market if there wasn't already in excess of 165 Speciale's.
Ferrari are hardly likely to say there are loads of them and its a regular production not limited number car so they are building to demand. If there are less than 165 built that's because there isn't the demand and why the speculator cars are no longer fetching premiums
The number I was told was 120 for the UK that was after they had also told me they had had to return some deposits too, but thats just what I was told…. Not so sure there are really that many owner/threads on here, same owners and other names pop up and to be fair your names attached to just about all of them… I would be very surprised judging by owner/buyer threads on here coupled with those already for sale on the market if there wasn't already in excess of 165 Speciale's.
Ferrari are hardly likely to say there are loads of them and its a regular production not limited number car so they are building to demand. If there are less than 165 built that's because there isn't the demand and why the speculator cars are no longer fetching premiums
No real reason for my dealer to lie I am all signed up and couldn't care less how many are made so he would just be running the risk of looking like a lying tit but hey stranger things happen just look at the way the new Lambo and macci D have tanked in price.. 
Edited by PHOENIXUK on Saturday 21st February 20:38
McLaren are only building a total of 500 675LT's worldwide and they are already all sold out so it will be interesting to see how this shakes up the track focused marketplace.
I still think the 458 Speciale is awesome but just can't see how it won't follow the previous value trend of CS and Scuderia bottoming out after 3/4 years. Personally that's when I see value ( £250k list price cars for < £170k ) and will look to buy.
I still think the 458 Speciale is awesome but just can't see how it won't follow the previous value trend of CS and Scuderia bottoming out after 3/4 years. Personally that's when I see value ( £250k list price cars for < £170k ) and will look to buy.
GRBF430F1 said:
McLaren are only building a total of 500 675LT's worldwide and they are already all sold out so it will be interesting to see how this shakes up the track focused marketplace.
I still think the 458 Speciale is awesome but just can't see how it won't follow the previous value trend of CS and Scuderia bottoming out after 3/4 years. Personally that's when I see value ( £250k list price cars for < £170k ) and will look to buy.
There are more and more people in a position to purchase cars like this on a daily basis myself included.Everything that is produced in any sort of limited production is selling out so it is no surprise that the McLaren has sold out.I still think the 458 Speciale is awesome but just can't see how it won't follow the previous value trend of CS and Scuderia bottoming out after 3/4 years. Personally that's when I see value ( £250k list price cars for < £170k ) and will look to buy.
I cant see this in itself having any influence over the pricing of the Speciale.The marketplace at the moment is very hard to predict and a prime example that surprised me was the GT3 as i expected it to hold strong for a while but not go way over list as they have done.
This only happened after the last of the speculators cars had gone and people suddenly realised there were not many cars to choose from.If this will be the case for the Speciale then only time will tell.My personal guess was that they would dip more towards the end of this year and that was the timescale that i was originally looking.My purchase last thursday was based on looking for months now at the used ones that were over list and option wise really not to my liking.I booked to go to Geneva and emailed my friend who works at my local Ferrari dealership to ask about Ferrari hospitality at the show as my friend had just ordered the GT4 Cayman and received hospitality tickets from them to attend the show.When he called me to tell me that i had tickets we had a conversation about the aftermarket specs and rough costs of retro fitting some options to a car that was a good spec but maybe without front lift or carbon engine bay and after a few laughs it was immediately apparent that this was never going to be a sensible option for me.
His last comment in the conversation was that a tentative build slot had become available the day before from one of their more well known customers with a view that he would still take the car if necessary but if they could find a buyer then all well and good.My friend then just said come and spec a car as if it is a keeper in my case then it is the only way you will be 100% satisfied and rather than taking the chance on prices later in the year it suddenly became a no brainer in my case to just get it ordered as in the week previous i had already had a thought of maybe there is another slot somewhere.
I drove straight to the dealers who have two cars for sale and both were pre registered and over list and with less spec than i chose.On this basis i placed my order the same day.it was like a big weight off my shoulders as it was too much of a gamble to take a chance on future values and finding the correct spec.As it is a keeper for me future value even though it probably crosses everyones mind at some point but not in a worried way maybe more in a general way it became an obvious choice for me by the end of the day and so my order was placed.
I owned a CS which I didn't plan to sell. I loved the car and understand everyone who has ever lauded it - it really is a jewel of a thing.
Since I was about the 6th owner, and I began thinking that the Speciale was within range after the price hike in CS, plus it would be the last and most likely best of the n/a track-type V8s, I thought I would take a test drive.
It is a wonderful car. Every bit as impressive as the CS in terms of being a 'jewel' of a thing. It is not as loud, nor quite as sweet sounding but it still sounds like a proper Ferrari to me, and the performance is much stronger and more seamless - it has much more torque and properly flies along. It is also as beautiful as the CS (which was always the problem for me with the Scud). At the end of the day, when I first got into my CS and drove it, I just knew I would buy it. Same with the Speciale, it was one of those moments that I knew I would regret if I didn't go for it - the car was one of those that is very easy to connect with and it feels completely alive in your hands, a wonderful thing that feels like you are connected into it. The change was made even easier since it would be my first new Ferrari and I planned to do both the Atelier and factory collection thing. The first definitely recommended, the second yet to happen!
I'm fairly certain I will never sell the Speciale and I have spec'd it with a number of very personal touches to reflect some significant things happening in our family this year (which Ferrari have been brilliant with).
Overall, very glad I have made the change. Though I will miss the CS, the presence of a Speciale to my own specification in the garage is more than adequate compensation.
Not that it matters to me, but it think the Speciale will do very well over 10 years in terms of residual. In fact, I think the order may well be Spec, CS, Scud, but then of course, I would say that, wouldn't I?
Since I was about the 6th owner, and I began thinking that the Speciale was within range after the price hike in CS, plus it would be the last and most likely best of the n/a track-type V8s, I thought I would take a test drive.
It is a wonderful car. Every bit as impressive as the CS in terms of being a 'jewel' of a thing. It is not as loud, nor quite as sweet sounding but it still sounds like a proper Ferrari to me, and the performance is much stronger and more seamless - it has much more torque and properly flies along. It is also as beautiful as the CS (which was always the problem for me with the Scud). At the end of the day, when I first got into my CS and drove it, I just knew I would buy it. Same with the Speciale, it was one of those moments that I knew I would regret if I didn't go for it - the car was one of those that is very easy to connect with and it feels completely alive in your hands, a wonderful thing that feels like you are connected into it. The change was made even easier since it would be my first new Ferrari and I planned to do both the Atelier and factory collection thing. The first definitely recommended, the second yet to happen!
I'm fairly certain I will never sell the Speciale and I have spec'd it with a number of very personal touches to reflect some significant things happening in our family this year (which Ferrari have been brilliant with).
Overall, very glad I have made the change. Though I will miss the CS, the presence of a Speciale to my own specification in the garage is more than adequate compensation.
Not that it matters to me, but it think the Speciale will do very well over 10 years in terms of residual. In fact, I think the order may well be Spec, CS, Scud, but then of course, I would say that, wouldn't I?
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