360 CS 430 Scuderia 458 Speciale
Discussion
Hollowpockets said:
From what I've heard I think Speciale numbers will be less than 150 in UK but it's such a great car I probably won't ever sell.
The Mac 675LT has not sold out yet, but it will be shortly after Geneva. It's something else!
Having sold the 430 Scuderia now I am considering another lghtweight track focussed type car but been told I won't secure a UK 675LT which is just as well if the price is going to be close to £300k specced upThe Mac 675LT has not sold out yet, but it will be shortly after Geneva. It's something else!
Edited by Hollowpockets on Sunday 22 February 02:31
Got circa £200k burning a hole and not really sure what to buy at this stage.
If I bought a CS just like the Scuderia the sensitivity to mileage would worry me and I would end up not driving it.
Porsche GT3 ( 996,997,991 )prices are mad.
Speciale is still a consideration although I just wish the production numbers were more transparent
So... Looks like the original question has been answered. 
The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
Slickhillsy said:
So... Looks like the original question has been answered.
The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
Its the law of diminishing returns now. Each new car gets better but it becomes harder and harder to improve the higher the benchmark gets.The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
I think we are really starting to enter the territory where the difference will only ever be felt on the track because as road cars you simply can't drive that fast safely.
I've gone full circle on my debate of which one to have but maybe for that reason the CS is the best to have.
I just don't know anymore. CS sounds metal, Scuderia has best gearbox for this type of car IMHO, Speciale is last N/a V8
Spin a coin, they are all roughly the same cost these days or will at least be in due course
Slickhillsy said:
So... Looks like the original question has been answered.
The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
I would say the speciale would leave the scud in the dust, but it's all down to opinion and how much you want to push a car. Just pick one you like the look of and enjoy it as they are all fantasticThe leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
Slickhillsy said:
So... Looks like the original question has been answered.
The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
Not sure I'm buying this. The Speciale is 2 sec quicker to 200km/h (124 mph) from rest than the Scuderia according to zeperfs, which is an amalgam of various press recorded times. That is a lot. The leap from Scuderia to Speciale is significantly less than CS to Scud...
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430/478697-cs...
"However, most will be surprised, at least w my moderately modified Scuderia, the gap between Specialé and Scuderia is not at all dramatic as compared to Scuderia with CS, where the CS was just left in the dust by 10 odd car lengths."
Other notable comparisons, 80-120 km/h in sixth the Scuderia is 8s, the Speciale 4.2s(!!), power to weight (kg/ps) the Scud is 2.9, the Speciale is 2.5, with better and more efficient aero. These are big differences.
Scud compared to the CS gives an interesting picture - 0-200 km/h heavily favours the Scud (11.2 v 15.7) whereas the 80-120 in sixth time is much closer (8s v 8.7s). This result is particularly surprising since the CS has a reputation for having very limited torque (something I never fully agreed with). The Speciale is on another level though, and the mid range figures tend to be more indicative of how quick a car really is in the real world.
Other notable mid range benchmarks; 60-100 km/h in fourth, 3.3 against 2.3, 80-120 km/h in fifth, 5 against 3 and finally 130-160 km/h in sixth, 5.1 against 3.2.
Speciale has 7 gears to Scud's 6, but even when the cars go from 80-180 km/h in the quickest gear possible the difference is still 5.2 against 6.2 (which is 20%, same as the 0-200 km/h differential).
To emphasize the point that the start does not favour the Speciale (gearbox, TC software etc) the 0-80 km/h time is identical at 2.6s, which is interesting.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1687-4652.htm
Edited by LukeyLikey on Tuesday 24th February 21:58
LukeyLikey said:
Not sure I'm buying this. The Speciale is 2 sec quicker to 200km/h (124 mph) from rest than the Scuderia according to zeperfs, which is an amalgam of various press recorded times. That is a lot.
Other notable comparisons, 80-120 km/h in sixth the Scuderia is 8s, the Speciale 4.2s(!!), power to weight (kg/ps) the Scud is 2.9, the Speciale is 2.5, with better and more efficient aero. These are big differences.
Scud compared to the CS gives an interesting picture - 0-200 km/h heavily favours the Scud (11.2 v 15.7) whereas the 80-120 in sixth time is much closer (8s v 8.7s). This result is particularly surprising since the CS has a reputation for having very limited torque (something I never fully agreed with). The Speciale is on another level though, and the mid range figures tend to be more indicative of how quick a car really is in the real world.
Other notable mid range benchmarks; 60-100 km/h in fourth, 3.3 against 2.3, 80-120 km/h in fifth, 5 against 3 and finally 130-160 km/h in sixth, 5.1 against 3.2.
Speciale has 7 gears to Scud's 6, but even when the cars go from 80-180 km/h in the quickest gear possible the difference is still 5.2 against 6.2 (which is 20%, same as the 0-200 km/h differential).
To emphasize the point that the start does not favour the Speciale (gearbox, TC software etc) the 0-80 km/h time is identical at 2.6s, which is interesting.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1687-4652.htm
Comparisons of in gear acceleration speeds when comparing 6 speed to 7 speed are meaningless for any given gear - the only comparison is best times. All important on road 80-120 time is 0.3 seconds different! If you add in to the mix real on road driving situations where you aren't always sat on the point of maximum attack but instead need to drop a couple of gears for an overtake then the non sequential gearbox in the Scud can drop from 5th to 3rd in 0.06 seconds, even a Speciale can't live with this speed of double gear change which will further reduce the 0.3 second difference. By way of comparison the CS for the same 80-120 increment has a fastest time of 2.5 seconds - a further 0.6 seconds slower and without SF2 gear changes to quickly select the best gear for max attack. Other notable comparisons, 80-120 km/h in sixth the Scuderia is 8s, the Speciale 4.2s(!!), power to weight (kg/ps) the Scud is 2.9, the Speciale is 2.5, with better and more efficient aero. These are big differences.
Scud compared to the CS gives an interesting picture - 0-200 km/h heavily favours the Scud (11.2 v 15.7) whereas the 80-120 in sixth time is much closer (8s v 8.7s). This result is particularly surprising since the CS has a reputation for having very limited torque (something I never fully agreed with). The Speciale is on another level though, and the mid range figures tend to be more indicative of how quick a car really is in the real world.
Other notable mid range benchmarks; 60-100 km/h in fourth, 3.3 against 2.3, 80-120 km/h in fifth, 5 against 3 and finally 130-160 km/h in sixth, 5.1 against 3.2.
Speciale has 7 gears to Scud's 6, but even when the cars go from 80-180 km/h in the quickest gear possible the difference is still 5.2 against 6.2 (which is 20%, same as the 0-200 km/h differential).
To emphasize the point that the start does not favour the Speciale (gearbox, TC software etc) the 0-80 km/h time is identical at 2.6s, which is interesting.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel1687-4652.htm
Edited by LukeyLikey on Tuesday 24th February 21:58
Slickhillsy said:
Couldn't agree more with the comment, but to be honest I don't think that is the right video to represent the best noise of the three. I watched the below video which I'm sure many have also seen and went straight out to buy my CS, for me its what its all about...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U0z9YwAQy4Q
The noise the noise the noise.....
At the end of the day the CS gets spanked for performance by the others as stated already yet it is worth broadly the same as a Scud and catching up the Speciale. For me thats because its the CS that is truly Speciale....
Russell996 said:
Comparisons of in gear acceleration speeds when comparing 6 speed to 7 speed are meaningless for any given gear - the only comparison is best times. All important on road 80-120 time is 0.3 seconds different! If you add in to the mix real on road driving situations where you aren't always sat on the point of maximum attack but instead need to drop a couple of gears for an overtake then the non sequential gearbox in the Scud can drop from 5th to 3rd in 0.06 seconds, even a Speciale can't live with this speed of double gear change which will further reduce the 0.3 second difference. By way of comparison the CS for the same 80-120 increment has a fastest time of 2.5 seconds - a further 0.6 seconds slower and without SF2 gear changes to quickly select the best gear for max attack.
I think the torque level on a Speciale is much higher than a Scud. The 80-120 km/h differential that you quote is still large (1.9s against 1.6s), after all, how low can that stat be? For instance, LaFerrari is still 1.3s. Therefore Speciale is mid way between a Scud and a LaFerrari. That sounds like a reasonable performance step for Ferrari to have made when moving from Scuderia to Speciale. It's not a surprise though, I'm pretty sure they manage these things carefully. Doesn't mean much - I preferred my CS to a Scud, others prefer a Scud to a Speciale, it's a valid viewpoint because all three are different, irrespective of relative performance. I just think that if we're tying to say that Speciale is not a decent move on from Scud in performance terms we're barking up the wrong tree.
Btw, not sure where you're getting the assertion that Scud has a quicker gear change than Speciale, I've never seen that quoted before?
The CS is a terrific car. The Scud is brutal quick.
But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
Camlet said:
The CS is a terrific car. The Scud is brutal quick.
But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
Absolutely spot on ! Cars like this need to go through a certain timescale before the prices start to increase and the CS and Scud have already done this.But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
LukeyLikey said:
I just think that if we're tying to say that Speciale is not a decent move on from Scud in performance terms we're barking up the wrong tree.
Btw, not sure where you're getting the assertion that Scud has a quicker gear change than Speciale, I've never seen that quoted before?
No suggestion from me that the Speciale isn't a step on from the Scud - I was simply representing the performance of each car on a level playing field.Btw, not sure where you're getting the assertion that Scud has a quicker gear change than Speciale, I've never seen that quoted before?
With regards to the SF2 gear change in the Scud, I'm sure you know the F1 is non sequential and can drop 2 gears in 0.06 seconds.
Camlet said:
The CS is a terrific car. The Scud is brutal quick.
But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
Don't disagree that long term it will appreciate similar to CS and Scuderia hence why I have a diary note to buy one in 3 years when they are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.But here's my prediction for 2019 and beyond. RHD Speciales will begin their ascent to greatness.
In 2010 social media denounced the creation of the 599 GTO. It was a puffed up GTB, a nonsense calling it a GTO. Only a marketing stunt. Today the 599 GTO is recognised by those who have driven it as a great. Left hookers are coming into the UK and are already 50K GBP above original list. RHD versions are easily 100K GBP on top. 500K GBP for a RHD is in sight already. So much for a puffed up GTB.
The Speciale is three things. It is a truly exceptional, incredible, remarkable drive (read EVOs tests for those who haven't driven a Speciale). It is the last NA V8. And RHD versions while not limited possibly number only 120.
I'm sure all three models will be cherished. But for me like the 599 GTO, the Speciale's time has yet to come.
They will come down before they go up !
So its all in the timing unless its a long term keeper from the off when it doesn't really matter.
Edited by GRBF430F1 on Wednesday 25th February 20:03
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