458 Speciale not so special?.
Discussion
Just answering an earlier query someone made (sorry I don't know how to quote previous posts) and that my Speciale almost has 12k on the clock - I did 400 miles yesterday taking it to 11,500ish. I have been offered more than I paid for the car from the supplying dealer fairly recently but really don't care as I buy cars to enjoy them and try to forget about the depreciation aspect - which is fairly inevitable on almost all cars surely.
On a separate note, whilst I've never been a fan of the MP4-12C looks-wise, I must admit that the new 675LT is quite stunning. Have seen a few in some really stunning colours! Always my preference to go with unusual colours for cars like these and the Speciale.
Was at the Ferrari factory and test track last week and the amount of 488's being delivered in red was really surprising, I'd say about 80%. Also saw the new 488 Spyder which looked beautiful. And some poorly taped-up variant of the California and the F12 Speciale which sounded rediculously loud when it drove off! If you can get a tour, I'd really recommend you make the trip.
On a separate note, whilst I've never been a fan of the MP4-12C looks-wise, I must admit that the new 675LT is quite stunning. Have seen a few in some really stunning colours! Always my preference to go with unusual colours for cars like these and the Speciale.
Was at the Ferrari factory and test track last week and the amount of 488's being delivered in red was really surprising, I'd say about 80%. Also saw the new 488 Spyder which looked beautiful. And some poorly taped-up variant of the California and the F12 Speciale which sounded rediculously loud when it drove off! If you can get a tour, I'd really recommend you make the trip.
Some of the responses to this rather remind me of the old Harry Enfield character called 'loads of money'. For those who do not remember it was a mickey take of the original yuppies and he boasted about how much money he had and how he could waste it on anything he wanted because he had 'Loads of Money'. Bragging that you have so much money you do not care how much you loose seems worse than being careful in making a choice so you do not loose so much. Especially when you consider the choice between very similar products that will give the same amount of pleasure.
As you get older and wiser, when you spend large sums of money, you start to take into consideration how much of it you are likely to loose.
When I started considering buying a Speciale I had got to the stage I was fed up with loosing a lot of money on cars. So when I decided to sell my 430 and LP560 and purchase a Speciale that was something I considered. Using man maths I realised replacing 2 by 1 I would half running costs and there was the possibility based on the CS and Scud that it would not loose so much money and there was even the long term possibility it might go up in value.
As I intended keeping this car for a least 7 years I had to really want it and in my view it had to be 'the best' available. The Speciale met this criteria and ordered mine before all the press reports said how good it was. I just had the gut feeling it would be an amazing car. I was not disappointed when I finally got my car.
Would I have bought a 650S if I thought that would hold its value? No because I did not like it and liking it and wanting it was an important part of the decision process.
As everyone I have lost money on cars in the past but I cannot see what is wrong it using that as part of the decision process.
I will use my Speciale and it has been down to the island of Corsica this summer but I will not use it during the winter. I expect average yearly mileage will be around 3500 miles. If that effects it value so be it. However it will probably not depreciate at the same rate as 488, a Hurricane or a 650s over the 7 years. This sort of usage is how I use all my toys and my series 1 Elise that I have had from new in 1997 has been used the same way and that was not to maintain it value.
As you get older and wiser, when you spend large sums of money, you start to take into consideration how much of it you are likely to loose.
When I started considering buying a Speciale I had got to the stage I was fed up with loosing a lot of money on cars. So when I decided to sell my 430 and LP560 and purchase a Speciale that was something I considered. Using man maths I realised replacing 2 by 1 I would half running costs and there was the possibility based on the CS and Scud that it would not loose so much money and there was even the long term possibility it might go up in value.
As I intended keeping this car for a least 7 years I had to really want it and in my view it had to be 'the best' available. The Speciale met this criteria and ordered mine before all the press reports said how good it was. I just had the gut feeling it would be an amazing car. I was not disappointed when I finally got my car.
Would I have bought a 650S if I thought that would hold its value? No because I did not like it and liking it and wanting it was an important part of the decision process.
As everyone I have lost money on cars in the past but I cannot see what is wrong it using that as part of the decision process.
I will use my Speciale and it has been down to the island of Corsica this summer but I will not use it during the winter. I expect average yearly mileage will be around 3500 miles. If that effects it value so be it. However it will probably not depreciate at the same rate as 488, a Hurricane or a 650s over the 7 years. This sort of usage is how I use all my toys and my series 1 Elise that I have had from new in 1997 has been used the same way and that was not to maintain it value.
michael243 said:
Just how many (RHD) Speciale's were everybody expecting to come to the UK?
I'm curious to see how it matches up to the data I have
The coupe was not sold as a limited series product.... just a 458 which is a bit more raw/fun. Unlike the speciale aperta which was sold as a Limited production vehicle. Presuming speciale rhd coupes to be 200-250? I'm curious to see how it matches up to the data I have
How many left states 27 Apertas
250 Coupes. But not sure how often its updated.
martisracing said:
Some of the responses to this rather remind me of the old Harry Enfield character called 'loads of money'. For those who do not remember it was a mickey take of the original yuppies and he boasted about how much money he had and how he could waste it on anything he wanted because he had 'Loads of Money'. Bragging that you have so much money you do not care how much you loose seems worse than being careful in making a choice so you do not loose so much. Especially when you consider the choice between very similar products that will give the same amount of pleasure.
As you get older and wiser, when you spend large sums of money, you start to take into consideration how much of it you are likely to loose.
When I started considering buying a Speciale I had got to the stage I was fed up with loosing a lot of money on cars. So when I decided to sell my 430 and LP560 and purchase a Speciale that was something I considered. Using man maths I realised replacing 2 by 1 I would half running costs and there was the possibility based on the CS and Scud that it would not loose so much money and there was even the long term possibility it might go up in value.
As I intended keeping this car for a least 7 years I had to really want it and in my view it had to be 'the best' available. The Speciale met this criteria and ordered mine before all the press reports said how good it was. I just had the gut feeling it would be an amazing car. I was not disappointed when I finally got my car.
Would I have bought a 650S if I thought that would hold its value? No because I did not like it and liking it and wanting it was an important part of the decision process.
As everyone I have lost money on cars in the past but I cannot see what is wrong it using that as part of the decision process.
I will use my Speciale and it has been down to the island of Corsica this summer but I will not use it during the winter. I expect average yearly mileage will be around 3500 miles. If that effects it value so be it. However it will probably not depreciate at the same rate as 488, a Hurricane or a 650s over the 7 years. This sort of usage is how I use all my toys and my series 1 Elise that I have had from new in 1997 has been used the same way and that was not to maintain it value.
Went through a similar thought process but haven driven both decided a 650s spider was a more suitable car for me.As you get older and wiser, when you spend large sums of money, you start to take into consideration how much of it you are likely to loose.
When I started considering buying a Speciale I had got to the stage I was fed up with loosing a lot of money on cars. So when I decided to sell my 430 and LP560 and purchase a Speciale that was something I considered. Using man maths I realised replacing 2 by 1 I would half running costs and there was the possibility based on the CS and Scud that it would not loose so much money and there was even the long term possibility it might go up in value.
As I intended keeping this car for a least 7 years I had to really want it and in my view it had to be 'the best' available. The Speciale met this criteria and ordered mine before all the press reports said how good it was. I just had the gut feeling it would be an amazing car. I was not disappointed when I finally got my car.
Would I have bought a 650S if I thought that would hold its value? No because I did not like it and liking it and wanting it was an important part of the decision process.
As everyone I have lost money on cars in the past but I cannot see what is wrong it using that as part of the decision process.
I will use my Speciale and it has been down to the island of Corsica this summer but I will not use it during the winter. I expect average yearly mileage will be around 3500 miles. If that effects it value so be it. However it will probably not depreciate at the same rate as 488, a Hurricane or a 650s over the 7 years. This sort of usage is how I use all my toys and my series 1 Elise that I have had from new in 1997 has been used the same way and that was not to maintain it value.
Conclusion is 2 great cars, slightly different in terms of their road/track focus and useability but bottom line is there no right or wrong answer.
When I can afford to add a speciale to the collection I think it will be a good replacement for the 430 Scuderia.
Be interesting to see if prices drop and cross over like the CS and scuderia
s2000db said:
Haha, I think in reality any high performance road car over £125k (plus the GTR) are all now within 'driver error' margins of each other, with the 'hyper cars' being a few percent quicker.. It's just how these cars deliver this performance seems to be virtually the only differentiator...
In reality it seems that visible performance advantages are only really evident on the drag strip, these days...
Acceleration is at least easily measured, but over 400m, 1km, time to 200kmh? 300kmh?In reality it seems that visible performance advantages are only really evident on the drag strip, these days...
The biggest factor by far is of course the driver - I figure I effectively gain 1 bhp for every 2.5 kg of fat I can trim off my belly.
mattf93 said:
The coupe was not sold as a limited series product.... just a 458 which is a bit more raw/fun. Unlike the speciale aperta which was sold as a Limited production vehicle. Presuming speciale rhd coupes to be 200-250?
How many left states 27 Apertas
250 Coupes. But not sure how often its updated.
250 coupes would put me around 30 outHow many left states 27 Apertas
250 Coupes. But not sure how often its updated.
27 apertas would put me at 3 out..
nutbehinddawheel said:
The fastest track time is not the sole arbitrator of "special" !
I think Anglesey is the worst track to test any supercar.When CH tested the GT3 and Speciale there was only about a tenth of a second difference in changeable conditions.At his best cars of 2014 at Portimao the Speciale was five seconds faster.My caterham is four seconds faster than my Speciale around anglesey but at Spa and Portimao the Caterham would never see where the Speciale went.griff7 said:
I think Anglesey is the worst track to test any supercar.When CH tested the GT3 and Speciale there was only about a tenth of a second difference in changeable conditions.At his best cars of 2014 at Portimao the Speciale was five seconds faster.My caterham is four seconds faster than my Speciale around anglesey but at Spa and Portimao the Caterham would never see where the Speciale went.
I really very much doubt that (depending on which caterham you have obviously). Am pretty sure I have seen R400s and R500s do low 2:40s or thereabouts at Spa. I have seen very very few Speciales anything like that kind of pace.isaldiri said:
I really very much doubt that (depending on which caterham you have obviously). Am pretty sure I have seen R400s and R500s do low 2:40s or thereabouts at Spa. I have seen very very few Speciales anything like that kind of pace.
My Caterham suffers from gearing so would be nowhere as quick as the 300hp duratec around spa.I managed a 2.43 at Spa at the end of the first day when the tyres were not at the best but there is not a huge amount of time to come on the cup 2's.I am fully aware what times the quickest Caterham's do around most circuits and in the last couple of seasons now that people have started to run 300bhp + engines with reliabilty the times have dropped quite a bit.The Speciale was tested on two occasions at 1.14.2 and the top Caterhams are now at 1.10.5 so 3.7 seconds faster.My Caterham weighs only 425kg and is 240bhp so has a very good power to weight ratio.
isaldiri said:
That's pretty damn handy to do that kind of time. 
Thanks I subjected Slickshilly to a couple of laps and he returned the favour in his Scud.
I managed a 7.40 BTG ring time with a passenger and traffic the weekend after on well past their best tyres and not going too mental.
I think this year that the fastest seven at Spa on road tyres was a 2.35/6 which is very quick for a brick on road tyres.Top cars are running seqential box traction launch paddles etc.The Duratec is by far the best engine for circuits overall but on the hills the busa is king
isaldiri said:
griff7 said:
I managed a 2.43 at Spa at the end of the first day when the tyres were not at the best but there is not a huge amount of time to come on the cup 2's.
That's pretty damn handy to do that kind of time. That said, i've seen a few 991 Gt3 laps on youtube at the 2.41/2.40 mark so i'd expect a Speciale to easily match that.
jackal said:
Mr Westermann used to run a 2.39 at spa in his portly old vauxhall powered Caterham
That said, i've seen a few 991 Gt3 laps on youtube at the 2.41/2.40 mark so i'd expect a Speciale to easily match that.
The Caterham times this year were on road tyres.Some of the old porky Vauxhall engines used to run very high 200bhp level.That said, i've seen a few 991 Gt3 laps on youtube at the 2.41/2.40 mark so i'd expect a Speciale to easily match that.
I cant find any GT3 times on youtube around those figures and it will also depend on what tyres were used.
And said:
That is what i would expect time wise but watching that vid there really is not a lot left in that time it was very well driven.griff7 said:
I think Anglesey is the worst track to test any supercar.When CH tested the GT3 and Speciale there was only about a tenth of a second difference in changeable conditions.At his best cars of 2014 at Portimao the Speciale was five seconds faster.My caterham is four seconds faster than my Speciale around anglesey but at Spa and Portimao the Caterham would never see where the Speciale went.
+1. Anglesea is too tight for supercars to properly stretch their legs.Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff