Are 355's selling?
Discussion
W111AAM said:
I was surprised at how many LHD cars there are for sale? Why is this? People buying them as the £/Euro rate is good and hoping to make a few quid this end?
Yep but a number are also imported from further afield such as the US. Many of the LHD cars for sale have shockingly bad service histories, next to no accompanying paperwork (dealers keep saying continentals dont keep papers!), and been recently imported. Good ex-EU LHD cars that have lived here for many years with long and traceable UK histories at respected UK indy's are not so common and worty seeking out imo. Seperately, any views on the colour effect on price? For instance every dealer says red is #1, but then some dealers say yellow is #2 most preferred/sought after and some say yellow makes the car much harder to sell??
ZeroH said:
Seperately, any views on the colour effect on price? For instance every dealer says red is #1, but then some dealers say yellow is #2 most preferred/sought after and some say yellow makes the car much harder to sell??
Dealers view depends whether you're a buyer or a seller and what colour his stock or your car is!ZeroH said:
Yep but a number are also imported from further afield such as the US. Many of the LHD cars for sale have shockingly bad service histories, next to no accompanying paperwork (dealers keep saying continentals dont keep papers!), and been recently imported. Good ex-EU LHD cars that have lived here for many years with long and traceable UK histories at respected UK indy's are not so common and worty seeking out imo.
This, many dealers selling LHD cars are taking advantage of the fact that the history is untraceable by a UK buyer. Many 355's have been clocked as they are so easy to do with analogue odometer and quite a few have accident history too. I would always be suspicious of a car freshly imported with no real history in the UK. And there are plenty of cheap cars in Europe if you know where to look, I was offered a manual 355B for circa £35k last month. Whether I would buy one of those cars is another matter, having owned several 355's I know from experience that even a good one can cost you a lot of money, a bad one can truly be a money pit.
During my hunt I saw a few dogs. But in general I think running costs are higher than most admit which is sometimes why you find cars which have had little work done over the years. I think to keep a 355 in top shape you have to spend quite a bit, £3000-£5000 per year IMHO (ave). Esp as these cars are getting on for 20 years old. A number of cars I saw had quite serious bills in the file.
The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
red_slr said:
During my hunt I saw a few dogs. But in general I think running costs are higher than most admit which is sometimes why you find cars which have had little work done over the years. I think to keep a 355 in top shape you have to spend quite a bit, £3000-£5000 per year IMHO (ave). Esp as these cars are getting on for 20 years old. A number of cars I saw had quite serious bills in the file.
The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
^^this^^The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
£3.2K was the average over 4 years. Great fun & soundtrack but at a cost. I think 599's will soon become pretty expensive to maintain too.
The appreciation of these cars is not sustainable, The market is to a large extent propped up with Leverage and Investment. its not going result in a soft landing, as soon as interest rates go up a couple of percent the whole house of cards is going come crashing down. Was it not for China that would have been 2016, I reckon mid 2017 now.
And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
Interest rate hikes in the first year at least will unlikely be much to write home about... but yes the forward looking impact on certain appreciating assets of hiking rates will not be non-negligible....
A official Ferrari dealer told me that most of his customers were financing cars.... say they had £300k to invest, they'd put £100k down on 3 cars and fund the rest as a leveraged appreciation play.... so far its worked well... the finance charges more than offset by appreciation had they bought Speciales/Scuds etc....
I do wonder if LHD is more of an issue on modern cars tho.... for some reason, older stuff like 355 seems more charming in LHD..... albeit as discussed, finding a good'un is a minefieid....
A official Ferrari dealer told me that most of his customers were financing cars.... say they had £300k to invest, they'd put £100k down on 3 cars and fund the rest as a leveraged appreciation play.... so far its worked well... the finance charges more than offset by appreciation had they bought Speciales/Scuds etc....
I do wonder if LHD is more of an issue on modern cars tho.... for some reason, older stuff like 355 seems more charming in LHD..... albeit as discussed, finding a good'un is a minefieid....
sadly, as long as Britain has a shortage of housing stock, the classic car market will continue to rise. The rate of growth may slow, but there will be no crash. Official predictions of up to 40% increases in some residential zones, by 2020, help to fuel the market, and there is a constant dwindling number of classics available due to crashes etc.
There's a new development near us, 310 apartments, construction still underway, all units sold out 20 months ago. It's nuts.
There's a new development near us, 310 apartments, construction still underway, all units sold out 20 months ago. It's nuts.
Edited by Bo_apex on Wednesday 2nd December 12:14
red_slr said:
During my hunt I saw a few dogs. But in general I think running costs are higher than most admit which is sometimes why you find cars which have had little work done over the years. I think to keep a 355 in top shape you have to spend quite a bit, £3000-£5000 per year IMHO (ave). Esp as these cars are getting on for 20 years old. A number of cars I saw had quite serious bills in the file.
The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
If you look at my profile I've used the tool there to keep i think a pretty accurate record of what I've spent on my 355. On average £3k/year. I could have saved money here and there but if i were to sell it i know it wants for nothing.The number of cars that have had engine refresh at c.50k miles was quite an eye opener. And that's a £10k job to do even on the cheap.
Bo_apex said:
sadly, as long as Britain has a shortage of housing stock, the classic car market will continue to rise. The rate of growth may slow, but there will be no crash. Official predictions of up to 40% increases in some residential zones, by 2020, help to fuel the market, and there is a constant dwindling number of classics available due to crashes etc.
There's a new development near us, 310 apartments, construction still underway, all units sold out 20 months ago. It's nuts.
Additionally, as the Tory government (tho could have fooled me) continues its attack on the Pensions market and the UK property market for higher earners, so more and more people will look to alternate asset classes as an investment, thus potentially fuelling the bubble even more.There's a new development near us, 310 apartments, construction still underway, all units sold out 20 months ago. It's nuts.
Edited by Bo_apex on Wednesday 2nd December 12:14
Vixpy1 said:
The appreciation of these cars is not sustainable, The market is to a large extent propped up with Leverage and Investment. its not going result in a soft landing, as soon as interest rates go up a couple of percent the whole house of cards is going come crashing down. Was it not for China that would have been 2016, I reckon mid 2017 now.
And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
I don't think we'll ever see anything like £50k again for a good 355 - Even if interest rates do go up by a couple of percent.And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
allister said:
Vixpy1 said:
The appreciation of these cars is not sustainable, The market is to a large extent propped up with Leverage and Investment. its not going result in a soft landing, as soon as interest rates go up a couple of percent the whole house of cards is going come crashing down. Was it not for China that would have been 2016, I reckon mid 2017 now.
And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
I don't think we'll ever see anything like £50k again for a good 355 - Even if interest rates do go up by a couple of percent.And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
I think some of the more expensive Ferrari's might take a hit, not sure 355's will though - Also, I paid £85k for an F430 Spider, Manual Transmission, (19k miles) Rosso / Creme in April this year, I may be proved wrong but I don't ever see it being worth any less, even if there is a rise in interest rates.
Vixpy1 said:
allister said:
Vixpy1 said:
The appreciation of these cars is not sustainable, The market is to a large extent propped up with Leverage and Investment. its not going result in a soft landing, as soon as interest rates go up a couple of percent the whole house of cards is going come crashing down. Was it not for China that would have been 2016, I reckon mid 2017 now.
And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
I don't think we'll ever see anything like £50k again for a good 355 - Even if interest rates do go up by a couple of percent.And i'm not bitter i did'nt buy one when they were 50K, no sir
Regardless, mine is not and won't be for sale for a good few years yet and if the value did plummet, there would be no point in selling
allister said:
I think some of the more expensive Ferrari's might take a hit, not sure 355's will though - Also, I paid £85k for an F430 Spider, Manual Transmission, (19k miles) Rosso / Creme in April this year, I may be proved wrong but I don't ever see it being worth any less, even if there is a rise in interest rates.
I agree. We're also seeing this with the rare manual 928 GT, steady price increases in the last 18 months.I would go three pedal F430 too, despite the F1 being accomplished.
Wow. I hadn't looked at valuations in a while. They really have kicked on a bit, haven't they. I feel very lucky to have got one before the move.
I think the price is driven by a few factors, some of which will change, some which won't.
1. Interest rates - this will change, eventually.
2. Good looks (subjective I know, but the 355 is generally accepted and has been since launch to be one of the great looking Ferraris).
3. Last of the "proper" manual cars.
4. Relatively low running costs (in my experience). This may change as they get rarer.
5. Proper exhaust note instead of that shouty trick exhaust (which I can't bear, personally)
I think the price is driven by a few factors, some of which will change, some which won't.
1. Interest rates - this will change, eventually.
2. Good looks (subjective I know, but the 355 is generally accepted and has been since launch to be one of the great looking Ferraris).
3. Last of the "proper" manual cars.
4. Relatively low running costs (in my experience). This may change as they get rarer.
5. Proper exhaust note instead of that shouty trick exhaust (which I can't bear, personally)
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