Asking Prices for Manuals still climbing!!

[allister]

RamboLambo said:

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush

This is a saying that's always confused me.... Personally, I'd take 2 in the bush every time

[allister]

tuscaneer said:

27000 miles and a handful of owners pal......


Ok here's the story....The guy that offered me 120k and myself have a mutual friend. The guy has never seen my car or met me but knows the condition of the car and the care and attention bestowed upon it by me from our mutual pal.

Anyway....This fella is a serious ferrari guy and is currently about to sell a dino he has had for donkeys years. We all k ow what dinos go for so this fella wants to sell that , slot the best part of 200k, and buy my 430 off me as he sees that as a natural for appreciation over the next 5 years.


Am I tempted??? Seriously, no....I've had the car for over 3 years now and spent a fortune on servicing and getting the car perfect. I am using it less but this last year aside it will cover a couple of thousand miles a year regardless of what turns up in the garage next to it to keep it company. I'm going to keep working like a lunatic and hopefully the numbers 4, 5 and 8 will take on a special significance to me before too long!

I think you're right to hold on to this car - It's significance in Ferrari's history is absolutely huge and not yet fully realised by many.....

What I am about to say probably isn't going to go down very well with a lot of Ferrari enthusiasts but I have to be honest..... I didn't buy my F430 Manual Spider for it's 0-60 speed, blistering performance, superb handling or to take it out on track days - I bought it simply because I love cleaning cars and keeping them absolutely perfect, admiring them when they're in a gleaming perfect state is my thing, I see them as works of art.....

I also enjoy driving 1k to 1.5k miles per year on dry, sunny days (that's enough for me) and listening to the sound of the engine.....

Finally (and probably most importantly), I bought this car because having watched and considered all aspects of the Ferrari market for approximately 18 months prior, I couldn't think of anyhere better to place my money! - Would I have bought this car if I thought for one minute that it was going to depreciate? No never, this was an opportunity for me to make some money and own a thing of real beauty!

Finally, I've said this before..... What are F430 Manual owners going to do with their money if they do sell...... Stick it in the bank and get 3% per annum at best? Yeah great!!!

Alternatively, you can put it in to another car which will more than likely lose you money!

That's my honest view - I will wait for others to tell me why I'm wrong.

I'm confident you've made the right choice Tuscaneer

[allister]

SlartiF430 said:

Such a sad view in my opinion. They're just cars. They exhibit characteristics that we find pleasurable eg the burble of the exhaust in my F430 reminded me of the vroom vroom noises I made when playing with my toys cars - except in this case I had the grown up version of the toy. They're made to be drive not looked at. Ferraris are OK looking but they're
not beautiful like Astons are. In fact I never thought my 430 even came close to the better looking F cars. We're all going to have different views on this, but buying a drivers car because it's going appreciate is all wrong. Im going to enjoy mine while my health allows it, i want to enjoy my years left in this planet because I'll be a very long time dead.

As you say, we're all entitled to our own views - Although I'm not sure an Aston Martin is more appealing to look at than a Ferrari - Aston Martin's tend to make me think three things, old aged pensioner, golf club and Jaguar!

I knew saying I'd bought my car as an investment was going to ruffle some feathers, but I don't really understand why?

I take on board that many people invest in property, pensions, etc..... But as mentioned, that is all a bit dull?

You're not honestly suggesting that investing money in a Ferrari, owning something that can be admired and enjoyed on the very occasional sunny days that we get this country, as well as getting a financial return on ownership is a bad thing?

Anyone who tells you, that they would prefer to lose money through Ferrari ownership, rather than make money from the experience, is only one of two things - An absolute fool, or a complete liar! (99.9% will be the latter).

Finally, just because I'm not covering 10k miles each year in my F430, it doesn't mean that it's not being enjoyed.... Far from it - I never miss a sunny day

Edited by allister on Sunday 31st January 20:28

[allister]

SlartiF430 said:

Investing in houses and businesses gives you ongoing income and capital appreciated. There is no certainty of success but you have lots of levers at your disposal to mitigate risk (sell, rent, advertise, market, invest in product etc). Everybody making money right now on their F430s are doing so purely by accident. Also, you don't have any levers. The market could decide that mclarens or French baguettes are the next big thing and depreciate your car a lot faster than it appreciated and there's nothing you can do to see this coming or mitigate it in any way. IMHO it's very foolish to treat these things as investments. For my part I made a bit when I sold by 430 - it was a bonus to me (I make my money in software where I have far more control over the outcome). I fully expect my 12c (which I bought a few weeks ago) to depreciate. People are telling me it won't lose money. If that's the case then great, if not - no big deal, I bought it to use and if it Loses money ill use my software business to make it back to buy my next car. Furthermore, even if my 12c does appreciate by 50k in 5 years then it's actually fairly st in the grand scheme of money - if I focus my efforts on my business then I'll make that money in a fraction of that time.

Just to reassure you SlartiF430, I'm not reliant on the money in my car, it's not my only lever..... Financially, you certainly don't need to feel sorry for me

[allister]

My apologies, I mis-read what you'd written.

[allister]

chippy348 said:

allister said:

You're not honestly suggesting that investing money in a Ferrari, owning something that can be admired and enjoyed on the very occasional sunny days that we get this country, as well as getting a financial return on ownership is a bad thing?

Anyone who tells you, that they would prefer to lose money through Ferrari ownership, rather than make money from the experience, is only one of two things - An absolute fool, or a complete liar! (99.9% will be the latter).

Edited by allister on Sunday 31st January 20:28

When i brought mine i fully banked on losing £10k a year for the first 3 years, at no point did i think i would be in the apparent position to make money on it if or when i sell it.

So not sure what category you put me in? But i tell you this if i sold it tomorrow there is no amount of money could buy the experience, memories of me driving it and the places I have been with her.

As you're not suggesting that it would have been your preference to lose this money over making it, then none of the above.

I'd say it probably puts you in the same category as anyone who buys a car in that price bracket, whether it be a Range Rover or a Ferrari, you kind of expect to lose £10k per annum.

[allister]

RamboLambo said:

What happens when all the old gits die and the new techno kids on the block arrive in say 10 years

They will be wanting McLarens not manuals

Roll on 10 years from now is what I say..... I can't wait to add a bargain basement Manual 355 and Manual 360 to my collection. Any ideas how cheap they'll be??

Perhaps £50k each for a low mileage example that nobody wants??

[allister]

sparta6 said:

presumably they'll also be wanting women with no t**s too

Like it..... That's the above reply, not women with no t**s

[mrhappy]

topless360 said:

Some crazy prices being asked but are they actually selling? I've noticed a couple of Red Manual 360 Spider's on sale for £80-85k that have been on for quite some time:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

It's difficult to say as I haven't seen the cars but speaking from experience, there's usually a reason if they're left hanging around...

[allister]

markst said:

looks to me the cheapest 430 manual is 129k - and to be fair it does look lovely

are they actually selling at these prices ??

I'll let you know markst - It's my car

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

You're right it is a beautiful car, in perfect condition with unmarked leather and faultless main dealer service history.

I've based my pricing upon an almost identical car which sold a couple of months ago, (same colour, spec and mileage) but it was 6 months older - That car apparently sold for very close to it's £129k asking price.

Edited by allister on Sunday 17th April 17:42

[allister]

Thanks nano2nd and cgt2 - I decided to sell simply because I fancy a change (and no, it's not because I've seen the light and decided to go McLaren!). That said, I'm not desperate for her to go, if she doesn't sell then fine, I'll be forced to enjoy another summer driving her.

I haven't and wouldn't bother with trade bids, although I may consider sale or return if it seems most potential buyer need to obtain finance. A friend of mine who specialises in high end cars has already offered to help but I told him I'd try selling myself first, as I feel I know the car better then any car dealer and therefore best placed to answer any questions.

[allister]

cgt2 said:

Just be very careful if going the SOR route. It's very easy these days to check the liquidity of a company and to see if they have any tangible assets. So many of the dealers who will bombard you with exaggerated SOR figures will promise you the earth but literally have nothing to their name. It allows them to give the impression of having a showroom full of a million pounds+ of stock. Smoke and mirrors..

And in many cases they have zero respect for customers cars. I know of one example just recently when someone recently forcibly repatriated a GT3 from a dealer after months of promises to sell it, the previously immaculate car was somewhat the worse for wear.

Thanks for that cgt2 - That's a very good point and something I hadn't considered.

[allister]

I think you did OK chippy348 - A 2005 coupe with 35k miles, needing a bit of paint and let's not forget, we're in November...... I think what you got for the car sounds absolutely right.

[allister]

RamboLambo said:

I also think he did incredibly well but what will be interesting to see is how much the trader advertises it for. They tell you its a pile of crap, old technology, no one wants them etc... when they want to buy it then add minimum £25k on the advertised price and tell you the complete opposite and all of a sudden is the dogs danglies

You're absolutely bang on there!!