Asking Prices for Manuals still climbing!!
Discussion
mwstewart said:
"Deposit taken"
That confirms it then - This is the second Manual F430 that I know to have sold this month for over £100k (both of similar mileage / age)..... This one being the slightly higher priced of the two at £130kEdited by allister on Thursday 21st January 06:07
red_duke said:
Why has it taken 10 years for stick shift F430s to command a premium over those with an F1 gearbox? As recently as September 2014 they were £8000 cheaper!
(thanks to Aldous Voice for providing the stats on this)
I see it as a number of factors:(thanks to Aldous Voice for providing the stats on this)
- Cars are becoming ever more tech filled in a quest for outright speed and as a result many are loosing their driver involvement, which has caused some buyers to refocus;
- F1 was relatively new tech at launch but for most buyers the new DSG type systems make it very dated (for the record I don't have a problem with F1 or other robitised manual gearboxes);
- The F430 remains the last N/A V8 Manual Ferrari. That's pretty significant.
red_duke said:
Why has it taken 10 years for stick shift F430s to command a premium over those with an F1 gearbox? As recently as September 2014 they were £8000 cheaper!
(thanks to Aldous Voice for providing the stats on this)
Or even £15000 cheaper. I viewed a Black 430 Manual Spider with red roof in 2014, could have had the car for £60k but walked away as it was a generally straight car but had not been serviced properly. I also suspected the manifolds were gone from the idle noise. It had a three year history gap at one point.(thanks to Aldous Voice for providing the stats on this)
The concern would be, in view of current pricing, whether cars like that have magically acquired a full service history to go along with the inflated price tag and how many unsuspecting buyers have bought.
As Aldous rightly says, there are far more patchy cars out there than minters and I've seen plenty that look nice on the surface but are really not up to par overall.
red_duke said:
Sue. But the supply hasn't changed and it's the demand I'm questioning.
how many manual cars are currently for sale versus this time 2 years ago? pretty sure supply has dropped, there is currently only 3 manual cars on PH, when i bought in 2014 i'm sure there was a greater selection to choose from.Edited by Nano2nd on Thursday 21st January 22:02
allister said:
That confirms it then - This is the second Manual F430 that I know to have sold this month for over £100k (both of similar mileage / age)..... This one being the slightly higher priced of the two at £130k
Advertised price and sold price are typically very, very different. Edited by allister on Thursday 21st January 06:07
_Leg_ said:
allister said:
That confirms it then - This is the second Manual F430 that I know to have sold this month for over £100k (both of similar mileage / age)..... This one being the slightly higher priced of the two at £130k
Advertised price and sold price are typically very, very different. Edited by allister on Thursday 21st January 06:07
MitchT said:
Is it too much to hope that Ferrari and the like notice the demand for old manuals and go back to building cars that are focused on user experience rather than chasing fractions of a second?
Never going to happen, and why would they?I appreciate what you're saying but technology moves on and a manually operated clutch really is becoming 'so last century…' That's not to say I prefer either (we have a manual Porsche and F1 Ferrari and I love both). We should remember that the F1 box is a manual box and that if manually pushing a clutch and removing your hand from the wheel to move a stick about was the best way forward, they'd still be doing it in Formula One!
Just my thoughts, not looking for a debate as I know opinion is divided!
A relatively niche market for a niche car is not indicative of any kind of sea change really. I always wonder why people hold the belief that Ferrari (or any marque) have somehow got it in for manuals/<insert depreciated tech here>. If it sold or was projected to sell in significant numbers they would make it - why wouldn't they as a profit-seeking entity? I note that ~80% of new Porsches in EU were specced with PDK.
I'm not familiar with exact F1 vs manual sales figures but the relative scarcity of manual models of these cars says it all really. If it was truly as popular as some would like to believe then - ironically - they wouldn't be scarce as they are.
I'm not familiar with exact F1 vs manual sales figures but the relative scarcity of manual models of these cars says it all really. If it was truly as popular as some would like to believe then - ironically - they wouldn't be scarce as they are.
I've owned a manual 430 and a manual 575 and done a fair amount of miles in both throughout Europe, they weren't garage queens and were used a lot.
Both great cars at a certain price point and in both cases I preferred the manual to F1 (as I always felt the Ferrari F1 transmissions were clunky and poor) but in my view definitely not worth the kind of silly money people are asking these days.
There are simply so many great cars I would otherwise spend my money on in the 100k+ price bracket.
Both great cars at a certain price point and in both cases I preferred the manual to F1 (as I always felt the Ferrari F1 transmissions were clunky and poor) but in my view definitely not worth the kind of silly money people are asking these days.
There are simply so many great cars I would otherwise spend my money on in the 100k+ price bracket.
cgt2 said:
I've owned a manual 430 and a manual 575 and done a fair amount of miles in both throughout Europe, they weren't garage queens and were used a lot.
Both great cars at a certain price point and in both cases I preferred the manual to F1 (as I always felt the Ferrari F1 transmissions were clunky and poor) but in my view definitely not worth the kind of silly money people are asking these days.
There are simply so many great cars I would otherwise spend my money on in the 100k+ price bracket.
Agree. Manual three pedal experience, 430 with a difference Both great cars at a certain price point and in both cases I preferred the manual to F1 (as I always felt the Ferrari F1 transmissions were clunky and poor) but in my view definitely not worth the kind of silly money people are asking these days.
There are simply so many great cars I would otherwise spend my money on in the 100k+ price bracket.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
Kyodo said:
...We should remember that the F1 box is a manual box and that if manually pushing a clutch and removing your hand from the wheel to move a stick about was the best way forward, they'd still be doing it in Formula One!
Formula one is concerned with quickest consistent lap time for a given set of regulations, hence driver pleasure and involvement are items that are nowhere near the top of their requirements list, if on it at all.mwstewart said:
Formula one is concerned with quickest consistent lap time for a given set of regulations, hence driver pleasure and involvement are items that are nowhere near the top of their requirements list, if on it at all.
Fine but there is no mystery in this. Ferrari stopped making manuals because people stopped buying them. You only have to look at the split between manual and F1 cars over time (and bearing in mind it was a £7k option to start with) to see manual sales rapidly diminishing. It is always hard to get definitive numbers out of Ferrari but I would be surprised if there were more than 50 or so manual 599s sold and certainly there were only a handful of manual Californias. HR Owen had a bit of a job shifting the manual California that they had in their showroom - although it will probably resurface in due course with a silly price tag. If people really wanted manual Ferraris to continue they should have been buying them new and they weren't.Jonathan
jtremlett said:
ine but there is no mystery in this. Ferrari stopped making manuals because people stopped buying them. You only have to look at the split between manual and F1 cars over time (and bearing in mind it was a £7k option to start with) to see manual sales rapidly diminishing. It is always hard to get definitive numbers out of Ferrari but I would be surprised if there were more than 50 or so manual 599s sold and certainly there were only a handful of manual Californias. HR Owen had a bit of a job shifting the manual California that they had in their showroom - although it will probably resurface in due course with a silly price tag. If people really wanted manual Ferraris to continue they should have been buying them new and they weren't.
Jonathan
Yes,I think that's pretty obvious. The point I was responding to was what's quickest on track doesn't necessarily translate to a better, more fulfilling experience on the road.Jonathan
Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff