355 vs 360 vs 430 spider

[ZeroH]

Buy the F1 if you prefer the feel and operation of using paddles and having a computer calibrate the rev match for you - simple as that - the fact it offers a circa 0.3s faster shift than a "stick shift" is a very weak reason for preference imo.

I've made my choice for the gated shifter, so my preference is evident - for me, the older the car the more its about the driver/machine interface, the feeling of connection, and less about eeking out the last ounce of speed from an ageing platform (that's the forte of the latest greatest PDK/DCT shift supercars) - ESPECIALLY with a spider version !

[jasonwdh]

paulmnz said:

jasonwdh said:

my list of options wasn't very extensive when I was looking to be honest.

Wanted Non Red/Crema Manual Spider, Shields, cf driving zone, bluetooth, FFSH

Got Yellow/Black manual Spider, shields, challenge wheels, yellow brake calipers, cf driving zone, bluetooth, FFSH.
If I need Nav I'll use my iPhone, it's probably better!

All down to personal preference as usual, buy what you want not what you think someone who will eventually buy it off you wants...

You have impeccable taste sir

why thank you Sir! Didn't realise the yellow tach and Daytona seats were an option - glad the prev owner spec'd the tach though - red dials would have looked really odd in a yellow car?
what colour did you go for Paul? btw I don't dislike red Ferraris - my others were red and I really wanted a change - don't want to offend anyone's choice of colour on their pride and joy!

[mwstewart]

ZeroH said:

Buy the F1 if you prefer the feel and operation of using paddles and having a computer calibrate the rev match for you - simple as that - the fact it offers a circa 0.3s faster shift than a "stick shift" is a very weak reason for preference imo.

I've made my choice for the gated shifter, so my preference is evident - for me, the older the car the more its about the driver/machine interface, the feeling of connection, and less about eeking out the last ounce of speed from an ageing platform (that's the forte of the latest greatest PDK/DCT shift supercars) - ESPECIALLY with a spider version !

However great it is as a drivers car that doesn't hold true for the F430 with its E-Diff, ESP, ABS, and TC. The F430 is a half way house between truely analogue and the latest 'digital' Ferraris with electronic systems that changed from purely safety to performance enhancing aids.

The last truely analogue Ferrari was the 355 manual, and even that had ABS.

[paulmnz]

mwstewart said:

However great it is as a drivers car that doesn't hold true for the F430 with its E-Diff, ESP, ABS, and TC. The F430 is a half way house between truely analogue and the latest 'digital' Ferraris with electronic systems that changed from purely safety to performance enhancing aids.

The last truely analogue Ferrari was the 355 manual, and even that had ABS.

This!

I would perhaps entertain the view that a manual Ferrari is romantically appealing, but only if the price difference was £5-10k - the current £40-50k premium for a manual?, I don't think it is worth that - if I was in the market at manual F430 money right now, I'd stretch to a scud as it has more 'driver involvement' than a manual 430 IMHO by quite some margin.

Specifically in the F430, I prefer the F1 - for me it's more in keeping with the period of the car - Ferrari had already moved away from old school analogue world of the 355 and 360 - look at the rest of the technology in the 430 - CCM brakes, F1 gearshift operation, adjustable dampers, adjustable traction control system, the e-diff - all controlled by the modes in the manettino designed to work in harmony. In my view, the manual was an incongruous throw back for those who like the 'famous open gate' which is nice, but the game had moved on, even in 2005 and most buyers tended to agree with the majority opting to pay the premium for the F1.

Yes, all the systems including the F1 gearbox in a 430 are now 'out of date' and much less effective than the latest stuff, but I think they all work together to give performance 'of their time' and as a package I find it quite satisfying to drive on the limit. I don't feel I'm missing out on changing gears with my foot and a lever in the same way I don't find the e-diff is messing with my corner exit and the electronic dampers are interfering with the feedback from the road and should be replaced with fixed rate dampers. The F1 down shifts make the same noises I would make myself, so I don't feel I'm missing out on the drama either. I gain more performance - faster shifting, much easier to left-foot brake - and some convenience if (heaven forbid) I'm stuck in traffic.

Horses for courses, But I don't subscribe to the idea that a manual gearbox is a pre-requisite part of a pleasurable driving experience in a 430.

As mwstewart points out, if I was looking specifically for the full manual Ferrari experience, I'd get an F355 - everything analogue and in harmony again (excepting the 355 has ABS).

[ZeroH]

355 manual is not comparable to the shifting mechanism on a 430 -its longer throw, much notchier, clutch take up less pleasant, and feels like a thing of hinderance more than a thing of joy.... unless the one I drove was a bad example (?)

Won't get dragged into relative values of f1 v manual v scud tho... plenty other threads for that - ultimately the market decides !

[HardtopManual]

mwstewart said:

The last truely analogue Ferrari was the 355 manual, and even that had ABS.

You can switch the ABS off on the early 355s</pedantry>

ZeroH said:

355 manual is not comparable to the shifting mechanism on a 430 -its longer throw, much notchier, clutch take up less pleasant, and feels like a thing of hinderance more than a thing of joy.... unless the one I drove was a bad example (?)

It does indeed sound like it needed some adjustment, or warm up, or had the wrong oil in it.

Edited by HardtopManual on Thursday 21st April 00:35

[Kyodo]

paulmnz said:

Yes, all the systems including the F1 gearbox in a 430 are now 'out of date' and much less effective than the latest stuff

We should all remember that all cars with the exception of the very recent models are out of date, such is the pace of change. It won't stop us from loving them though.
Fwiw, I think the whole two vs three pedal debate is rubbish, usually stemming from people talking up their own vehicles.

[mwstewart]

HardtopManual said:

You can switch the ABS off on the early 355s</pedantry>

Excellent!

[jasonwdh]

Kyodo said:

We should all remember that all cars with the exception of the very recent models are out of date, such is the pace of change. It won't stop us from loving them though.
Fwiw, I think the whole two vs three pedal debate is rubbish, usually stemming from people talking up their own vehicles.

I think the "debate is rubbish" remark is a bit strong as I'm not sure it is actually a debate! You have a number of people on here expressing why they bought their car with the transmission they did (myself included). People do get a little enthused over their motors which can sometimes be misconstrued as "talking up their own vehicles" but that's not always a bad thing - it's why we're here no? - think of it as Spurs supporters being excited about their title chances this year

[Kyodo]

jasonwdh said:

I think the "debate is rubbish" remark is a bit strong as I'm not sure it is actually a debate! You have a number of people on here expressing why they bought their car with the transmission they did (myself included). People do get a little enthused over their motors which can sometimes be misconstrued as "talking up their own vehicles" but that's not always a bad thing - it's why we're here no? - think of it as Spurs supporters being excited about their title chances this year

Fair point

[geopetrolhead]

I think manual 355 is best but I would say that I just bought a manual yellow 355 spider, it was my dream car when I was younger and I still think it's one of the best looking Ferrari's, and the sound is amazing! If I was to go for a 360 i would go for a manual red coupe one as I think the 360 spider is not so nice looking, if I was to go for 430 I would choose red again but this time spider with an F1 gearbox as the F1 had really evolved by that stage.

[RamboLambo]

geopetrolhead said:

I think manual 355 is best but I would say that I just bought a manual yellow 355 spider, it was my dream car when I was younger and I still think it's one of the best looking Ferrari's, and the sound is amazing! If I was to go for a 360 i would go for a manual red coupe one as I think the 360 spider is not so nice looking, if I was to go for 430 I would choose red again but this time spider with an F1 gearbox as the F1 had really evolved by that stage.

I agree with above for all 3 models selections other than I've got a F355 GTS Manual with capristo

[FunkyMunky71]

Thanks for all the good info everyone. What's out there atm is quite annoying. Some with CF rear inserts but ali interiors, some with Challenge wheels but no sensors. As a no cost option, why is a CF driver zone more desirable than an aluminium one? I know the ali one looks a bit plasticy but surely it is a bit more robust. I'm now down to a shortlist of 3 cars with great FFSH and ranging from 13k - 20k miles. Any suggestions?

[mwstewart]

Most parts can be retrofitted quite easily. I have for sale from my car a complete challenge rear bumper conversion for a Spider with Bosch PDC kit. Pic below:


I think the aluminium interior looks terrible. Really cheap. Don't let it put you off though because it is easily replaced and there are aftermarket options available that are most likely better quality than OEM.

[FunkyMunky71]

This one ticks a lot of boxes I think but is quite big money (for me anyway), but I could trade in a depreciating Boxster S and also get a couple of £k off. What do you all think?

[geopetrolhead]

RamboLambo said:

I agree with above for all 3 models selections other than I've got a F355 GTS Manual with capristo

I would have chosen manual 355 GTS Over spider but they were very scarce for my budget

I'm getting Capristo Level 2 fitted at the moment, can't wait to pick it up, I really want to eventually get Hyperflow cats too, what do you think? Are they best cats to go for? Then when my headers have more miles on them I will get fabspeed headers, that should make the whole system sound F1 Fooking epic!

[paulmnz]

FunkyMunky71 said:

This one ticks a lot of boxes I think but is quite big money (for me anyway), but I could trade in a depreciating Boxster S and also get a couple of £k off. What do you all think?

which one? link?

[RamboLambo]

geopetrolhead said:

I would have chosen manual 355 GTS Over spider but they were very scarce for my budget

I'm getting Capristo Level 2 fitted at the moment, can't wait to pick it up, I really want to eventually get Hyperflow cats too, what do you think? Are they best cats to go for? Then when my headers have more miles on them I will get fabspeed headers, that should make the whole system sound F1 Fooking epic!

Cool. The capristo exhaust will make a big difference. I've not gone the cats or headers route yet as I like to keep my cars fairly stock. Couldn't resist the capristo and it sounds epic.
I'm told the cats will make the biggest difference so I can only imagine what the headers and cats will do for the sound but for the time being I'm happy with the current level and quality of sound.
I'm down to less than 2,000 miles a year in her now so hard to justify the expenditure on top of the others I'm running

[FunkyMunky71]

Doh!

http://www.sytner.co.uk/car-search/5736267-ferrari...

That one. Got them to knock £3k off with trade in, subject to test drive.

[paulmnz]

£3k for your boxster? I'd probably keep it.

Car looks lovely - I presume you have decided you dont want the carbon brakes? seems to have everything else with all the carbon fibre extras.

Small note of caution about the leather though - I have a friend with light leather and he has to use towels on the seats so they dont stain blue from jeans!