Are Speciale That Special
Discussion
rosino said:
First of all. It's Speciale.
Then yes it is as special as they say it is. I agree that the pricing for RHD went ballistic as soon as people started to realise how good it was. And being the last n/a V8 made things worse.
I personally bought a LHD as it was more reasonably priced. It's not s car I use everyday and driving the other side doesn't bother me. You can only really drive with a certain commitment on wider open roads so being on the other side is not a big deal. Track you would not notice and Euro trips which is what you really want to do in this car you would be better off. I also bought before the exchange rate exploded so I guess it helped.
I am about to take it to the German Alps and a few Austrian and Italian passes. I might run a blog here on PH on the trip.
In any case at any speed it's ferocious and visceral. So special no journey is dull. Gears are so short you can actively use up to 4th gear without getting too much into jail territory. Love it.
The only negative for me is the width coming from a GT3 I think it's too wide for our s
tty UK undeveloped road network. And the radio is so st it's not even funny.
I am with you - I just bought a LHD Speciale (Yellow) which I get next week. It was already UK registered so the fx rate was not such a drag.Then yes it is as special as they say it is. I agree that the pricing for RHD went ballistic as soon as people started to realise how good it was. And being the last n/a V8 made things worse.
I personally bought a LHD as it was more reasonably priced. It's not s car I use everyday and driving the other side doesn't bother me. You can only really drive with a certain commitment on wider open roads so being on the other side is not a big deal. Track you would not notice and Euro trips which is what you really want to do in this car you would be better off. I also bought before the exchange rate exploded so I guess it helped.
I am about to take it to the German Alps and a few Austrian and Italian passes. I might run a blog here on PH on the trip.
In any case at any speed it's ferocious and visceral. So special no journey is dull. Gears are so short you can actively use up to 4th gear without getting too much into jail territory. Love it.
The only negative for me is the width coming from a GT3 I think it's too wide for our s
tty UK undeveloped road network. And the radio is so st it's not even funny. The LHD's are at list or thereabouts (230k), not the comic prices being asked.
I think it will be epic.
I want RHD so £235k then
The LHD's are at list or thereabouts (230k), not the comic prices being asked.
I think it will be epic.
fastcello said:
rosino said:
First of all. It's Speciale.
Then yes it is as special as they say it is. I agree that the pricing for RHD went ballistic as soon as people started to realise how good it was. And being the last n/a V8 made things worse.
I personally bought a LHD as it was more reasonably priced. It's not s car I use everyday and driving the other side doesn't bother me. You can only really drive with a certain commitment on wider open roads so being on the other side is not a big deal. Track you would not notice and Euro trips which is what you really want to do in this car you would be better off. I also bought before the exchange rate exploded so I guess it helped.
I am about to take it to the German Alps and a few Austrian and Italian passes. I might run a blog here on PH on the trip.
In any case at any speed it's ferocious and visceral. So special no journey is dull. Gears are so short you can actively use up to 4th gear without getting too much into jail territory. Love it.
The only negative for me is the width coming from a GT3 I think it's too wide for our stty UK undeveloped road network. And the radio is so st it's not even funny.
I am with you - I just bought a LHD Speciale (Yellow) which I get next week. It was already UK registered so the fx rate was not such a drag.Then yes it is as special as they say it is. I agree that the pricing for RHD went ballistic as soon as people started to realise how good it was. And being the last n/a V8 made things worse.
I personally bought a LHD as it was more reasonably priced. It's not s car I use everyday and driving the other side doesn't bother me. You can only really drive with a certain commitment on wider open roads so being on the other side is not a big deal. Track you would not notice and Euro trips which is what you really want to do in this car you would be better off. I also bought before the exchange rate exploded so I guess it helped.
I am about to take it to the German Alps and a few Austrian and Italian passes. I might run a blog here on PH on the trip.
In any case at any speed it's ferocious and visceral. So special no journey is dull. Gears are so short you can actively use up to 4th gear without getting too much into jail territory. Love it.
The only negative for me is the width coming from a GT3 I think it's too wide for our s
tty UK undeveloped road network. And the radio is so st it's not even funny. The LHD's are at list or thereabouts (230k), not the comic prices being asked.
I think it will be epic.
I remember seeing a lovely well optioned Rosso/Nero/NART Speciale in Graypaul Nottingham's showroom in late January last year, up for £249k. I would hazard a guess that such a car would've fetched at least £350k up until recently. Circa £5.5k interest a month on £249k capital certainly sounds to me like a great ROI.
footsoldier said:
Rari said:
36 RHD specials now listed.
Looking at them, I genuinely think some are going to lose 50% of value in the foreseeable future.I agree there will a softening and anybody who bought at £400k will take a bath but I cannot see 50%....
It's just my opinion, based on recent memories of 119k Scuds. The last few years have been the exception, not the norm, and there are now obvious signs that sales are grinding to a halt on these cars and similar,
where are all the buyers for the Speciales, the GT3RS, the SLSs, Scuds etc that have been piling up for months now?
Don't want to start an argument or be 'talking the market down' (as if I could.). It's just what I think.
Speciales were available at list with options thrown in for a while, and it's only the 'investment value' that suddenly kicked in. I think the correct, historic value, to which they're heading, is easily sub £200k.
where are all the buyers for the Speciales, the GT3RS, the SLSs, Scuds etc that have been piling up for months now?
Don't want to start an argument or be 'talking the market down' (as if I could.). It's just what I think.
Speciales were available at list with options thrown in for a while, and it's only the 'investment value' that suddenly kicked in. I think the correct, historic value, to which they're heading, is easily sub £200k.
I bloody hope so, if Speciales drop by so much so will other Ferraris and I'll buy a few more. Awesome.
But, I'm afraid, it is not to be. Collector car values have risen steadily since 1980 at an average of 12.1% according to HAGI data and their F index is a major part of that with an average growth of over 15% (that takes into account the big dip back in the 90s). It would be hard to deny that the last naturally aspirated, highly lauded V8 doesn't qualify as a collectible Ferrari and as such, I think it's a bit optimistic to wait for a £200k Speciale I'm afraid.
Short term speculators may lose a bit but genuine collectors who have a long term ownership view will be absolutely fine. Serves speculators right for pushing the prices up for those of us that live and breathe cars. Gits.
They'll be rising again next spring. Buy em whilst you can.
As for the 991.1 GT3RS why on Earth would that be collectible? It isn't the last manual like a 997.2 and it isn't the best double clutch paddle thingamabob* GT3RS as a new one will be along soon with fandangly* super bits. GT4 may be if they turbo the next one.
SLS, last N/A V8 big feck off* coupe thingy that Merc will create. It'll stay up albeit with a flat spot for a few months. But oh how I hope they drop, I'll have one in a heartbeat at £100k.
* Apologies if the technological terminology loses some people
But, I'm afraid, it is not to be. Collector car values have risen steadily since 1980 at an average of 12.1% according to HAGI data and their F index is a major part of that with an average growth of over 15% (that takes into account the big dip back in the 90s). It would be hard to deny that the last naturally aspirated, highly lauded V8 doesn't qualify as a collectible Ferrari and as such, I think it's a bit optimistic to wait for a £200k Speciale I'm afraid.
Short term speculators may lose a bit but genuine collectors who have a long term ownership view will be absolutely fine. Serves speculators right for pushing the prices up for those of us that live and breathe cars. Gits.
They'll be rising again next spring. Buy em whilst you can.
As for the 991.1 GT3RS why on Earth would that be collectible? It isn't the last manual like a 997.2 and it isn't the best double clutch paddle thingamabob* GT3RS as a new one will be along soon with fandangly* super bits. GT4 may be if they turbo the next one.
SLS, last N/A V8 big feck off* coupe thingy that Merc will create. It'll stay up albeit with a flat spot for a few months. But oh how I hope they drop, I'll have one in a heartbeat at £100k.
* Apologies if the technological terminology loses some people
Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 26th August 00:20
IMO, the indices are written for the benefit of the trade. They only factor in sales, so when times are good reflect average, or even below average quality kit, as everything sells. When times are not so good, like now, it's onky the 'prime' stuff that sells, so index stays up because it's not like for like - it's poor/average/prime condition value v only prime values.
It is widely considered that high end auction values are already down 20-25% since 2104, but nowhere is that reflected in the indices. dealers are trading cars with each other, or are sitting with cars now on SOR which they would previously have bought in. It reminds me of the credit crunch when Goldmans sold off all their bad assets before telling their clients the market was f@cked!
i bought an SLS at 97k in 2013 and made 40% on it this year! I only sold because I wanted a change and didn't want to be stuck with it, I sold it the day after the spring auctions confirmed downward trend, and not much has sold since, In 2014 they couldn't sell 918s at list, now they're worth £1m. p1s had numbers cut from 500 to 375 IIRC, to make sure they sold.
I have a £140k Countach that hadn't sold for a year, then seemingly went up in value by 400% in 12 months! (But they aren't selling again right now)
As I said, Speciales were not limited and were incentivised. What's changed to make them all so valuable now? only the thought of free (and tax free) money, which is no longer on the table.
Anyway, no one can prove they're right, and I'm really just as happy if I'm wrong, I've just seen bubbles before, and think this is a classic one. if market was more liquid and transparent it would have deflated further already,
It is widely considered that high end auction values are already down 20-25% since 2104, but nowhere is that reflected in the indices. dealers are trading cars with each other, or are sitting with cars now on SOR which they would previously have bought in. It reminds me of the credit crunch when Goldmans sold off all their bad assets before telling their clients the market was f@cked!
i bought an SLS at 97k in 2013 and made 40% on it this year! I only sold because I wanted a change and didn't want to be stuck with it, I sold it the day after the spring auctions confirmed downward trend, and not much has sold since, In 2014 they couldn't sell 918s at list, now they're worth £1m. p1s had numbers cut from 500 to 375 IIRC, to make sure they sold.
I have a £140k Countach that hadn't sold for a year, then seemingly went up in value by 400% in 12 months! (But they aren't selling again right now)
As I said, Speciales were not limited and were incentivised. What's changed to make them all so valuable now? only the thought of free (and tax free) money, which is no longer on the table.
Anyway, no one can prove they're right, and I'm really just as happy if I'm wrong, I've just seen bubbles before, and think this is a classic one. if market was more liquid and transparent it would have deflated further already,
Edited by footsoldier on Friday 26th August 01:01
Only time will tell. Before I say the following I should highlight I drive my cars, I'm no investor, but the whole area is interesting.
Few differences now include the whole car scene, bigger worldwide market but by far the most important aspect is that we are seeing the end of an era in terms of car technology. Ahead we have turbos, hybrids, electric cars that are faster than the very fastest petrol cars and auto drive.
Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
Of course that may mean that Mr "Buy it now, sell it in 6 months for a profit" is off the mark and thats fine, that person isn't a car collector. But for those of us who want to buy and own a Speciale and might sell it in 10 or 20 years (mainly because by then I won't be able to get out of the bloody thing) then I believe we will enjoy a great car for 10/20 years and see very strong prices.
Few differences now include the whole car scene, bigger worldwide market but by far the most important aspect is that we are seeing the end of an era in terms of car technology. Ahead we have turbos, hybrids, electric cars that are faster than the very fastest petrol cars and auto drive.
Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
Of course that may mean that Mr "Buy it now, sell it in 6 months for a profit" is off the mark and thats fine, that person isn't a car collector. But for those of us who want to buy and own a Speciale and might sell it in 10 or 20 years (mainly because by then I won't be able to get out of the bloody thing) then I believe we will enjoy a great car for 10/20 years and see very strong prices.
Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 26th August 09:37
_Leg_ said:
Few differences now include the whole car scene, bigger worldwide market but by far the most important aspect is that we are seeing the end of an era in terms of car technology. Ahead we have turbos, hybrids, electric cars that are faster than the very fastest petrol cars and auto drive.
Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
So..."this time it's different?" Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
How many times has that been said I wonder?
Surely the simple rules of supply and demand have got to come into play at some stage.
There are loads for sale and no one buying them because the price is massively over inflated with little if any justification other than hype and dealers stoking them up.
The one well known, long standing and knowledgeable dealer I would expect to be making the most other of this whole situation doesn't have a single speciale that he owns and is waiting with cash for them to drop back
There are loads for sale and no one buying them because the price is massively over inflated with little if any justification other than hype and dealers stoking them up.
The one well known, long standing and knowledgeable dealer I would expect to be making the most other of this whole situation doesn't have a single speciale that he owns and is waiting with cash for them to drop back
Edited by RamboLambo on Friday 26th August 12:04
_Leg_ said:
I bloody hope so, if Speciales drop by so much so will other Ferraris and I'll buy a few more. Awesome.
But, I'm afraid, it is not to be. Collector car values have risen steadily since 1980 at an average of 12.1% according to HAGI data and their F index is a major part of that with an average growth of over 15% (that takes into account the big dip back in the 90s). It would be hard to deny that the last naturally aspirated, highly lauded V8 doesn't qualify as a collectible Ferrari and as such, I think it's a bit optimistic to wait for a £200k Speciale I'm afraid.
Short term speculators may lose a bit but genuine collectors who have a long term ownership view will be absolutely fine. Serves speculators right for pushing the prices up for those of us that live and breathe cars. Gits.
They'll be rising again next spring. Buy em whilst you can.
As for the 991.1 GT3RS why on Earth would that be collectible? It isn't the last manual like a 997.2 and it isn't the best double clutch paddle thingamabob* GT3RS as a new one will be along soon with fandangly* super bits. GT4 may be if they turbo the next one.
SLS, last N/A V8 big feck off* coupe thingy that Merc will create. It'll stay up albeit with a flat spot for a few months. But oh how I hope they drop, I'll have one in a heartbeat at £100k.
* Apologies if the technological terminology loses some people
As counter argument - we already had the 170k Speciale - LHD cars about 12-18 months ago before the pound took a tumble and when LHD cars were trading below list. Remember the discussion on here as a few people considered buying one and importing. It is a highly lauded ferrari, but it is also a model of which thousands were produced.But, I'm afraid, it is not to be. Collector car values have risen steadily since 1980 at an average of 12.1% according to HAGI data and their F index is a major part of that with an average growth of over 15% (that takes into account the big dip back in the 90s). It would be hard to deny that the last naturally aspirated, highly lauded V8 doesn't qualify as a collectible Ferrari and as such, I think it's a bit optimistic to wait for a £200k Speciale I'm afraid.
Short term speculators may lose a bit but genuine collectors who have a long term ownership view will be absolutely fine. Serves speculators right for pushing the prices up for those of us that live and breathe cars. Gits.
They'll be rising again next spring. Buy em whilst you can.
As for the 991.1 GT3RS why on Earth would that be collectible? It isn't the last manual like a 997.2 and it isn't the best double clutch paddle thingamabob* GT3RS as a new one will be along soon with fandangly* super bits. GT4 may be if they turbo the next one.
SLS, last N/A V8 big feck off* coupe thingy that Merc will create. It'll stay up albeit with a flat spot for a few months. But oh how I hope they drop, I'll have one in a heartbeat at £100k.
* Apologies if the technological terminology loses some people
Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 26th August 00:20
I do not see why these days should not come back. As I had posted on another thread Scuderias at some point were in the low 100 euros, CS in the high double digits - why should this not happen again - it was 2-3 years ago, not 20 and the last few years are doubtful to be the new norm (just as doubtful as all the other new norms in soeculative bubbles in the past). Of course I might be wrong and it is the new norm and they will continue increasing - am just having a hard time believing that car enthusiasts will be able to sufficiently prop up the market once the investors leave again (in the 80s/90s there were a lot fewer car models and cars full stop that were of interest to enthusiasts than today) and they will leave eventually - maybe in 1, maybe in 5 years - but eventually.
As an aside just read on another forum that CGTs seem to be down about 20-25 percent off their peak prices last year in the US - we will see what the future brings
_Leg_ said:
Only time will tell. Before I say the following I should highlight I drive my cars, I'm no investor, but the whole area is interesting.
Few differences now include the whole car scene, bigger worldwide market but by far the most important aspect is that we are seeing the end of an era in terms of car technology. Ahead we have turbos, hybrids, electric cars that are faster than the very fastest petrol cars and auto drive.
Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
Of course that may mean that Mr "Buy it now, sell it in 6 months for a profit" is off the mark and thats fine, that person isn't a car collector. But for those of us who want to buy and own a Speciale and might sell it in 10 or 20 years (mainly because by then I won't be able to get out of the bloody thing) then I believe we will enjoy a great car for 10/20 years and see very strong prices.
There's a lot that makes sense to me in this post. If you use cars, rather than speculate or merely collect/invest, short term profits are far more difficult to be certain about. Over the long term Speciale will be very collectable, particularly for those who bought new and will hold onto them. (I have two friends, plus me, doing exactly this - three out of three).Few differences now include the whole car scene, bigger worldwide market but by far the most important aspect is that we are seeing the end of an era in terms of car technology. Ahead we have turbos, hybrids, electric cars that are faster than the very fastest petrol cars and auto drive.
Nostalgia is a massive, massive market. Look at Pebble Beach and everyone involved in it for an example. Goodwood Revival too.
The difference now is people see that and are buying ahead of time. How many times have we wished we bought x car back when they were cheap as chips? Loads. Now people are realising that.
Of course that may mean that Mr "Buy it now, sell it in 6 months for a profit" is off the mark and thats fine, that person isn't a car collector. But for those of us who want to buy and own a Speciale and might sell it in 10 or 20 years (mainly because by then I won't be able to get out of the bloody thing) then I believe we will enjoy a great car for 10/20 years and see very strong prices.
Edited by _Leg_ on Friday 26th August 09:37
Seems like a lot of owners have bought new and decided to keep the car. Others will be turning theirs into other Ferraris, sometimes at the behest of their dealer based on the market value. This will stop after a short while. But who knows what the economy will look like, the number of buyers v sellers? All rather unpredictable.
What is more predictable is that there are very few cars of the pedigree and (still relatively) low volume of the Speciale. In 20 years when we struggle to drive them, they will be worth a lot of money. How much? Who can say, and if that's the reason you own the car it seems a long time to wait. For me, in the meantime, I know that I own a gem of a car that will cost me not a penny to keep for as long as I wish.
I keep tabs on Speciale prices once a week. From mid-April to mid-June the average offered price of RHD examples on PH was in the low 370s. It is now a little under 360k so has come off its peak fractionally. Volumes offered are still increasing, presumably people switching into the 488.
Why "so many" for sale but no moving? Perhaps some cars are SOR with some original owners having a laugh. I mean you bought a Speciale new for 250K only two years ago. You know it's a razor sharp cutie to drive - one of the best ever. You see the market suggests you can have 300K+ on the table from a dealer. WTF list it. If someone wants it fine. Never a wrong time to take a profit. And if it's all froth WTF you'll keep a car that in another five years will still be worth more than you paid. In the meantime there will not be a single drive in your Speciale you don't marvel how fking awesome this last NA V8 beastie drives.
king awesome this last NA V8 beastie drives. Camlet said:
Why "so many" for sale but no moving? Perhaps some cars are SOR with some original owners having a laugh. I mean you bought a Speciale new for 250K only two years ago. You know it's a razor sharp cutie to drive - one of the best ever. You see the market suggests you can have 300K+ on the table from a dealer. WTF list it. If someone wants it fine. Never a wrong time to take a profit. And if it's all froth WTF you'll keep a car that in another five years will still be worth more than you paid. In the meantime there will not be a single drive in your Speciale you don't marvel how fking awesome this last NA V8 beastie drives.
Few more listed yesterday including a nice blue one at Macaris. I competely agree with what you say but unfortunately a lot of these are not being enjoyed as you can see from the low mileage 200-1500 cars which are the majority listed. king awesome this last NA V8 beastie drives. Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff