550 Maranello article - they'll be £200k before you know it!

[Pork]

ferrisbueller said:

Last manual V12 GT (not counting the uber rare [6?] 599 manuals discussed elsewhere). Always going to be sought after as a consequence.

See also manual derivatives of 360, 430 and 612.

UK 599 manuals = c3.

[roygarth]

mon the fish said:

roygarth said:

To be fair it is a very rare Manual. I think 95%+ were flappy's.

True, but that doesn't explain why you'd pay double for that compared to a 550 in the same colours...

Madness.

Not wishing to split hairs but a 550 with the same spec and mileage would probably be £250K+.

[ferrisbueller]

NRS said:

ferrisbueller said:

mon the fish said:

roygarth said:

To be fair it is a very rare Manual. I think 95%+ were flappy's.

True, but that doesn't explain why you'd pay double for that compared to a 550 in the same colours...

Madness.

Last manual V12 GT (not counting the uber rare [6?] 599 manuals discussed elsewhere). Always going to be sought after as a consequence.

See also manual derivatives of 360, 430 and 612.

Not sure if it's changed, but certainly quite recently the 360/430 value thread on here showed the manuals weren't going for more than the paddle shift cars for those models. It's just enthusiasts seem to talk about it but not put their money into it. I guess it will change over time as the cars become "classics".

In terms of twelves:
http://www.rmsothebys.com/am15/amelia-island/lots/...

That's a 599 manual for $682k+fees, exactly a year ago.

For the eights:
http://aldousvoice.com/2016/02/01/ferrari-360-mark...

Data says nearly £20k more for a manual (in terms of asking price anyway).

Edited by ferrisbueller on Tuesday 15th March 10:04

[ferrisbueller]

cgt2 said:

NRS said:

Not sure if it's changed, but certainly quite recently the 360/430 value thread on here showed the manuals weren't going for more than the paddle shift cars for those models. It's just enthusiasts seem to talk about it but not put their money into it. I guess it will change over time as the cars become "classics".

.....cue a dozen apopleptic posts from people who own manual cars

And a far greater number of people with F1 'boxes trying to convince themselves the data is wrong.

[mon the fish]

ferrisbueller said:

Last manual V12 GT (not counting the uber rare [6?] 599 manuals discussed elsewhere). Always going to be sought after as a consequence.

See also manual derivatives of 360, 430 and 612.

I get that it is the last manual (barring the rare 599s), but to me it's so similar to the 550 that I don't know why you'd pay the extra for a manual 575 over a 550

[Mogul]

roygarth said:

Not wishing to split hairs but a 550 with the same spec and mileage would probably be £250K+.

Possibly true. Speedmaster Cars have the lower miles RHD TDF/Bordeaux 550 on their books and their current asking price is £250k (previously £275k?).

http://www.speedmastercars.com

However, this one is clearly UK based RHD car so it's just guessing to say what an equivalent LHD 550 would fetch at auction, either in the US or in Blighty...

Edited by Mogul on Tuesday 15th March 14:06

[cgt2]

mon the fish said:

I get that it is the last manual (barring the rare 599s), but to me it's so similar to the 550 that I don't know why you'd pay the extra for a manual 575 over a 550

Had both in manual form and I honestly preferred the 550.

[Mogul]

I view all Maranellos individually on their merits and there is much to love about each one but fundamentally, every 575M comes with the improved Graziano gearbox featuring dual and triple cone synchronisers that were specified when Ferrari knew they were ready to implement the F1 paddle shift in a front engined V12.

The same gearbox is fitted to both the manual and F1 paddle shift versions - it is just the actuation that differs...

Theoretically then, a 575M manual should present the pinnacle if what one is looking for is the best 'manual shifting experience' in a Maranello.

This enhancement alone, plus the relative scarcity, goes a long way to justifying a price premium of some sort over an 'otherwise equivalent' 550.

The recent high profile auction results on manual 575Ms have been amplified because of low mileages. I wonder what prices otherwise similar but average miles cars would achieved?

All it would take would be some factory support or possibly some third party effort to perfect the 'F1-ectomy' and the manual premium could all but disappear.

P.S. There's a super low kms LHD 575M F1 coming up at the RM Sotheby's Monaco sale and it will be interesting to see what it goes for...

"This stunning example, with the desirable F1 gearbox"

http://www.rmsothebys.com/mc16/monaco/lots/2002-fe...

Edited by Mogul on Tuesday 15th March 17:22

[NRS]

ferrisbueller said:

NRS said:

ferrisbueller said:

mon the fish said:

roygarth said:

To be fair it is a very rare Manual. I think 95%+ were flappy's.

True, but that doesn't explain why you'd pay double for that compared to a 550 in the same colours...

Madness.

Last manual V12 GT (not counting the uber rare [6?] 599 manuals discussed elsewhere). Always going to be sought after as a consequence.

See also manual derivatives of 360, 430 and 612.

Not sure if it's changed, but certainly quite recently the 360/430 value thread on here showed the manuals weren't going for more than the paddle shift cars for those models. It's just enthusiasts seem to talk about it but not put their money into it. I guess it will change over time as the cars become "classics".

In terms of twelves:
http://www.rmsothebys.com/am15/amelia-island/lots/...

That's a 599 manual for $682k+fees, exactly a year ago.

For the eights:
http://aldousvoice.com/2016/02/01/ferrari-360-mark...

Data says nearly £20k more for a manual (in terms of asking price anyway).

Edited by ferrisbueller on Tuesday 15th March 10:04

Aldous stat's were what I was thinking about. I hadn't looked at them recently, which is why I said it might have changed now. Last time I looked at them there wasn't a difference between the choice of gear change method, but seems there is now. Which matches up in a way with my prediction they would go up when becoming classics, which I would say is what you can see in the price (most likely a bubble, but taking cars that were too new/ mass-produced into classic territory). I have neither, so no bias in regards to talking up one over the other.

[roygarth]

Mogul said:

roygarth said:

Not wishing to split hairs but a 550 with the same spec and mileage would probably be £250K+.

Possibly true. Speedmaster Cars have the lower miles RHD TDF/Bordeaux 550 on their books and their current asking price is £250k (previously £275k?).

http://www.speedmastercars.com

However, this one is clearly UK based RHD car so it's just guessing to say what an equivalent LHD 550 would fetch at auction, either in the US or in Blighty...

Edited by Mogul on Tuesday 15th March 14:06

Fair point, I was referring to UK RHD...so many variables with these damn Maranello's

I suppose all we can be sure about s that prices are not going down at the moment!

Small point - The Speedmaster RHD TDF/Bordeaux 550 was previously £225K.

[Mogul]

Cariconics had a couple of interesting 575Ms in stock recently but I see that they are no longer listed. Are the new owners on here?

Edited by Mogul on Wednesday 16th March 12:12

[jtremlett]

So, along with the Speedmaster's car we have £199,990 at Simon Furlonger http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f... £189,950 at Slade's http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f... and £210,000 at Graypaul http://www.graypaulclassiccars.com/vehicles/ferrar...

It will be intersting to see if any of those sell in the coming weeks.

Jonathan

[harrykul]

Sounds very rich to me: I don't see them shifting any time soon.

[rubystone]

Foskers quietly sold a low mileage RHD 550 last week. I would imagine it fetched decent money...

[550M]

CAP Black Book are showing a 10% increase across the board on all 550's this MONTH alone. I know they're still a little behind the curve compared to asking prices, but messing around with the program this morning has raised an interesting thought. Using mine in the way Enzo intended instead of mothballing it has cost me 71p per mile. That being the current difference in value between mileage at purchase and current mileage.

Or put another way, each trip to Le Mans over the last 10 years cost me a grand more than I thought!

Insurance renewal soon. Looks like a 50% increase year on year.

[Mario149]

With all these apparent increases, part of me slightly regrets selling mine 15 months ago, but part of me is quite happy as well as for the first half of my ownership there were no massive rises so I had no fear of driving the tits off it and doing loads of miles. It was only when prices went past £70K for my 37K miler and I was getting itchy feet that I was "watching" the value tick down mile by mile. Funny isn't it.

In terms of satisfaction, the best cars to drive have surely got to to be the ones which hold their value during ownership. Otherwise, on the one hand you get annoyed at cars that depreciate and on the other you stop wanting to drive cars that are appreciating because of the "lost" money

[bertie]

I wonder if I should have a word on the insurance value of my manual 575

Anyone suggest who might give me a good idea on value?

[Caledon]

bertie said:

I wonder if I should have a word on the insurance value of my manual 575

Anyone suggest who might give me a good idea on value?

Ring Daniel at Slades (Penn) - he knows many of the 575 Manuals and has just provided me a revised valuation for mine. Most recent sale was about a week ago. I have had to reinsure twice in the past 12 months.

[550M]

Mario149 said:

With all these apparent increases, part of me slightly regrets selling mine 15 months ago, but part of me is quite happy as well as for the first half of my ownership there were no massive rises so I had no fear of driving the tits off it and doing loads of miles. It was only when prices went past £70K for my 37K miler and I was getting itchy feet that I was "watching" the value tick down mile by mile. Funny isn't it.

In terms of satisfaction, the best cars to drive have surely got to to be the ones which hold their value during ownership. Otherwise, on the one hand you get annoyed at cars that depreciate and on the other you stop wanting to drive cars that are appreciating because of the "lost" money

It's a situation I'd not really grasped before. First world problems eh?. We moan when they go down, and then moan again when they go up!!!

[johnnyreggae]

Caledon said:

Most recent sale was about a week ago.

They were advertising the Rod Stewart manual at £ 269 950 ! But its now sold although there is a different advert showing it at £ 199 950 as well as another showing sold at £ 169 950