Nervously considering 599 ownership.
Discussion
Hi guys!
New around here, thought I'd join up as thinking about a Ferrari for the first time next year but slightly nervous about it. Thought I'd check in with you guys so I don't just fall for dealer sales spiel.
1. Dealer (non-ferrari but high end) seemed relatively confident that 599's have increased in value and will continue to do so, or at the very least, wouldn't depreciate as fast as a PCP plan would predict and therefore build up some equity if it comes to trading it in. Increasing value in cars just feels wrong to me. I'm not looking at a GTO, probably not even looking for an HGTE if I'm honest, just a nice standard UK car.
2. Dealer told me I can easily get one serviced at a good specialist Ferrari place (apparently they prep Ferrari's for racing) for about £1500-£2k/year which also seems surprising to me and that they're much easier cars to work on these days than older Ferrari's.
3. Some of the cars I've seen for sale don't seem to be having annual services and look like they've been worked on every 2 years rather than every year. If the above is true, this sounds like a cheap previous owner(s) that I should probably avoid? Particularly if the above is true and servicing isn't ridiculously expensive. Example here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
4. I also discovered that some HGTE's are dealer fitted rather than done at the factory. From what I've read, I'm not sure how confident I'd be in a dealer retrofitting something like this to a car. Anyone here know anything about this? Is it genuinely the identical thing (barring the seats) to what came out of the factory? I'd guess that a dealer fitted HGTE may not hold its value as well as a factory version or am I wrong on that?
5. Unsure whether to go with an approved used or not. 2 year warranty but I understand it has to be serviced at a main dealer to maintain that. Are the main dealers that much more expensive to service than specialists? My nearest ones would probably be Maranello in Egham, H.R. Owen in London, would consider stretching to Meridien in Lyndhurst.
6. Anything else I should be on the lookout for in considering my first Ferrari?? Not sure what sort of mileage levels are considered good.
Many thanks for any advice on ownership you guys can give!
New around here, thought I'd join up as thinking about a Ferrari for the first time next year but slightly nervous about it. Thought I'd check in with you guys so I don't just fall for dealer sales spiel.
1. Dealer (non-ferrari but high end) seemed relatively confident that 599's have increased in value and will continue to do so, or at the very least, wouldn't depreciate as fast as a PCP plan would predict and therefore build up some equity if it comes to trading it in. Increasing value in cars just feels wrong to me. I'm not looking at a GTO, probably not even looking for an HGTE if I'm honest, just a nice standard UK car.
2. Dealer told me I can easily get one serviced at a good specialist Ferrari place (apparently they prep Ferrari's for racing) for about £1500-£2k/year which also seems surprising to me and that they're much easier cars to work on these days than older Ferrari's.
3. Some of the cars I've seen for sale don't seem to be having annual services and look like they've been worked on every 2 years rather than every year. If the above is true, this sounds like a cheap previous owner(s) that I should probably avoid? Particularly if the above is true and servicing isn't ridiculously expensive. Example here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
4. I also discovered that some HGTE's are dealer fitted rather than done at the factory. From what I've read, I'm not sure how confident I'd be in a dealer retrofitting something like this to a car. Anyone here know anything about this? Is it genuinely the identical thing (barring the seats) to what came out of the factory? I'd guess that a dealer fitted HGTE may not hold its value as well as a factory version or am I wrong on that?
5. Unsure whether to go with an approved used or not. 2 year warranty but I understand it has to be serviced at a main dealer to maintain that. Are the main dealers that much more expensive to service than specialists? My nearest ones would probably be Maranello in Egham, H.R. Owen in London, would consider stretching to Meridien in Lyndhurst.
6. Anything else I should be on the lookout for in considering my first Ferrari?? Not sure what sort of mileage levels are considered good.
Many thanks for any advice on ownership you guys can give!
Edited by Soleith on Tuesday 1st November 09:13
Values have increased over the last Year or so, no idea if they will continue, probably as i've just traded mine for an FF!
2. Annual service is around £1200 at main dealer but they'll possibly be other bits so budget around £2k per Year
3. I would be nervous of cars that don't have a full history
4. HGTE pack was available as retro fit except the seats, Mine had it and I'd not worry about dealer capability, it's probably true that Factory HGTE cars will be slightly more valuable than Dealer fit. Note pre 2009 MY cars cannot have all the upgrades
5. I wouldn't run one without a quality warranty, as for dealer this is a low volume car and dealers are widely spread, you need to rethink your view of buying from a local dealer as the perfect car maybe in Scotland
6. My 7 Year old car had 28.5k so only 4k miles per year and felt great, If you intend to drive it I'd avoid garage queens, get the clutch and brake wear levels checked before purchase, important spec items are Shields, Carbon LED wheel,PDC, Sat Nav (although it's useless).
Have you driven one? if not then I'd suggest you should, they're an absolute beast, total drivers car, when pressing on you need to be 100% focused
Get it fully inspected, dampers are prone to fail and they're a heavy car so suspension components do tend to wear out.
2. Annual service is around £1200 at main dealer but they'll possibly be other bits so budget around £2k per Year
3. I would be nervous of cars that don't have a full history
4. HGTE pack was available as retro fit except the seats, Mine had it and I'd not worry about dealer capability, it's probably true that Factory HGTE cars will be slightly more valuable than Dealer fit. Note pre 2009 MY cars cannot have all the upgrades
5. I wouldn't run one without a quality warranty, as for dealer this is a low volume car and dealers are widely spread, you need to rethink your view of buying from a local dealer as the perfect car maybe in Scotland
6. My 7 Year old car had 28.5k so only 4k miles per year and felt great, If you intend to drive it I'd avoid garage queens, get the clutch and brake wear levels checked before purchase, important spec items are Shields, Carbon LED wheel,PDC, Sat Nav (although it's useless).
Have you driven one? if not then I'd suggest you should, they're an absolute beast, total drivers car, when pressing on you need to be 100% focused
Get it fully inspected, dampers are prone to fail and they're a heavy car so suspension components do tend to wear out.
Edited by F355GTS on Tuesday 1st November 09:45
one addition - you can have brake discs refurbished, which is a lot less than new discs (from memory replacement price per disc c 5k)
I personally would want an approved car / a car that I can have a Ferrari warranty on for at least the first couple of years for peace of mind
Electronics on Ferraris are notoriously fickle (my FF throws engine warning lights on a regular basis, one of the displays went blank at some point) and gearboxes take a lot of punishment given the V12 torque. I usually get rid of messages by disconnecting the battery, but still this might not be a permanent solution ....
I personally would want an approved car / a car that I can have a Ferrari warranty on for at least the first couple of years for peace of mind
Electronics on Ferraris are notoriously fickle (my FF throws engine warning lights on a regular basis, one of the displays went blank at some point) and gearboxes take a lot of punishment given the V12 torque. I usually get rid of messages by disconnecting the battery, but still this might not be a permanent solution ....
No need to be nervous OP. They're epic cars and if you get the key items checked out prior to purchase you shouldn't worry unduly. I'm almost one year into 599 ownership, 5000 miles travelled, and have found it to be a robust car. Bought mine from a main dealer (Dick Lovett Swindon, superb all round) so it has 2-year warranty, but haven't needed it. As previous poster said, the electrics occasionally throw a hands-in-the-air, Italian-style tantrum, but nothing you'd call a show-stopper. Warning lights often seem to disappear as quickly as they appeared. Odd. Anyway, it's a great car, mega V12 and very quick. I don't think you'd be disappointed.
1 - if you are suggesting buying on finance and then relying on increase in value to cover it then you cannot afford the car
5 - service - in the area you describe Autoficcina have considerable 599 experience - alternatively for main dealers Carrs in Exeter are often recommended and will send a truck and still yield a saving over others
5 - service - in the area you describe Autoficcina have considerable 599 experience - alternatively for main dealers Carrs in Exeter are often recommended and will send a truck and still yield a saving over others
F355GTS said:
3. I would be nervous of cars that don't have a full history
5. I wouldn't run one without a quality warranty, as for dealer this is a low volume car and dealers are widely spread, you need to rethink your view of buying from a local dealer as the perfect car maybe in Scotland
6. My 7 Year old car had 28.5k so only 4k miles per year and felt great, If you intend to drive it I'd avoid garage queens, get the clutch and brake wear levels checked before purchase, important spec items are Shields, Carbon LED wheel,PDC, Sat Nav (although it's useless).
Have you driven one? if not then I'd suggest you should, they're an absolute beast, total drivers car, when pressing on you need to be 100% focused
Get it fully inspected, dampers are prone to fail and they're a heavy car so suspension components do tend to wear out.
3. Yeah seemed odd that particular example hadn't been serviced annually if the costs are not prohibitive like it sounds like they aren't.5. I wouldn't run one without a quality warranty, as for dealer this is a low volume car and dealers are widely spread, you need to rethink your view of buying from a local dealer as the perfect car maybe in Scotland
6. My 7 Year old car had 28.5k so only 4k miles per year and felt great, If you intend to drive it I'd avoid garage queens, get the clutch and brake wear levels checked before purchase, important spec items are Shields, Carbon LED wheel,PDC, Sat Nav (although it's useless).
Have you driven one? if not then I'd suggest you should, they're an absolute beast, total drivers car, when pressing on you need to be 100% focused
Get it fully inspected, dampers are prone to fail and they're a heavy car so suspension components do tend to wear out.
Edited by F355GTS on Tuesday 1st November 09:45
5. Yeah, I'm sure I'll have to travel to buy the car, just wasn't sure about getting an approved used one if the dealers are massively overpriced for servicing, sounds like they aren't so I'd be likely to go approved used in that case to get 2 year warranty and get it serviced at one of my nearby main dealers.
6. I'll definitely be driving it regularly, probably aim to use it a couple of times/week. Thanks for the other things to look out for. I've not driven one yet, don't particularly want to yet as I'm sure when I do I'll probably just be itching to pull the trigger and buy one and I need to sort a few other things first, hence looking to get next year and researching now.
Many thanks for the feedback!
MDL111 said:
one addition - you can have brake discs refurbished, which is a lot less than new discs (from memory replacement price per disc c 5k)
I personally would want an approved car / a car that I can have a Ferrari warranty on for at least the first couple of years for peace of mind
Electronics on Ferraris are notoriously fickle (my FF throws engine warning lights on a regular basis, one of the displays went blank at some point) and gearboxes take a lot of punishment given the V12 torque. I usually get rid of messages by disconnecting the battery, but still this might not be a permanent solution ....
Ah interesting, I didn't know that you could refurb discs. £5k/disc is indeed pricey. After seeing the responses here, I'm certainly leaning towards going approved used. Was mainly concerned with if the dealers are gougers on servicing costs. Local non-ferrari high end place said to use a specialist (not them) instead of a franchised dealer.I personally would want an approved car / a car that I can have a Ferrari warranty on for at least the first couple of years for peace of mind
Electronics on Ferraris are notoriously fickle (my FF throws engine warning lights on a regular basis, one of the displays went blank at some point) and gearboxes take a lot of punishment given the V12 torque. I usually get rid of messages by disconnecting the battery, but still this might not be a permanent solution ....
I'm sort of resigned to the electronics throwing a mediterranean wobbly every so often, as long as it's nothing too serious, I'll live with it, from what I've read its best to keep them on a trickle charger.
SL550M said:
No need to be nervous OP. They're epic cars and if you get the key items checked out prior to purchase you shouldn't worry unduly. I'm almost one year into 599 ownership, 5000 miles travelled, and have found it to be a robust car. Bought mine from a main dealer (Dick Lovett Swindon, superb all round) so it has 2-year warranty, but haven't needed it. As previous poster said, the electrics occasionally throw a hands-in-the-air, Italian-style tantrum, but nothing you'd call a show-stopper. Warning lights often seem to disappear as quickly as they appeared. Odd. Anyway, it's a great car, mega V12 and very quick. I don't think you'd be disappointed.
Thanks! I should probably have explained my nervousness. This'll be the first car I've ever had that I'd classify as a "supercar". Everything else has been pretty standard mid to high end so I'm just cautious about how difficult a Ferrari may be in terms of reliability, dealer servicing etc. I'm certainly looking forward to getting one!johnnyreggae said:
1 - if you are suggesting buying on finance and then relying on increase in value to cover it then you cannot afford the car
5 - service - in the area you describe Autoficcina have considerable 599 experience - alternatively for main dealers Carrs in Exeter are often recommended and will send a truck and still yield a saving over others
Thanks for the feedback. I can afford the car, am simply somewhat incredulous at the prospect of a car that appreciates in value. They're obviously not cheap, but at the same time we're not in 250 GTO territory here so surprised that a car like this may potentially go up in value. Obviously they've depreciated from new.5 - service - in the area you describe Autoficcina have considerable 599 experience - alternatively for main dealers Carrs in Exeter are often recommended and will send a truck and still yield a saving over others
Exeter is pretty far, round trip would be over 300 miles to me but if they're reasonable may try them out, Autoficcina is much closer, will also check them but if I go the approved used route, main dealer will be needed to keep the warranty alive.
They're epic, don't be nervous - buy on condition and check clutch and brake wear.
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Soleith said:
Thanks for the feedback. I can afford the car, am simply somewhat incredulous at the prospect of a car that appreciates in value. They're obviously not cheap, but at the same time we're not in 250 GTO territory here so surprised that a car like this may potentially go up in value. Obviously they've depreciated from new.
Just be aware that these cars were down to as low as 80k or less about 2 years ago, like all Ferrari they have seen an increase in price recently, don't rely on them going up any further and be prepared for them to drop back again.6point2 said:
They're epic, don't be nervous - buy on condition and check clutch and brake wear.
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Except, I really like your car and would like to buy it, can you prove to me that the car was in storage for 4 years and not in the bodyshop having a new front end welded on as I didn't put claim through the insurance company after crashing it on a track day ?Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Also when I come to sell it how can I prove that to my buyer ?
I am sure your car is lovely but you get my point.
OP - Condition, History, and Provenance is everything with these cars.
Front shock absorbers are a known weak point. I had one go at 13k miles and you have to replace the pair. £2,000 per corner, parts and labour, so a nice £4k bill. However the car has seen quite a few track days and a lot of mountain driving. Drive an HGTE and a non HGTE car before you buy as they are quite different. Don't be afraid of main dealers and ask them what their labour rates are and for an estimate before committing to work. A lot of dealers do "deals" for working on older cars. I am a fan of Meridien Modena. 599 is an epic car and I have no intention of ever parting with mine.
TISPKJ said:
6point2 said:
They're epic, don't be nervous - buy on condition and check clutch and brake wear.
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Except, I really like your car and would like to buy it, can you prove to me that the car was in storage for 4 years and not in the bodyshop having a new front end welded on as I didn't put claim through the insurance company after crashing it on a track day ?Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Also when I come to sell it how can I prove that to my buyer ?
I am sure your car is lovely but you get my point.
OP - Condition, History, and Provenance is everything with these cars.
However buying any supercar used you will always assume a certain level of risk
Doppelkupplung said:
TISPKJ said:
6point2 said:
They're epic, don't be nervous - buy on condition and check clutch and brake wear.
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Except, I really like your car and would like to buy it, can you prove to me that the car was in storage for 4 years and not in the bodyshop having a new front end welded on as I didn't put claim through the insurance company after crashing it on a track day ?Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Also when I come to sell it how can I prove that to my buyer ?
I am sure your car is lovely but you get my point.
OP - Condition, History, and Provenance is everything with these cars.
However buying any supercar used you will always assume a certain level of risk
However the inference was that it was ok to buy a Ferrari with huge gaps in its history as long as it looked good and the clutch was ok.
For the OP new to the marque I would suggest that's probably not the best advice.
TISPKJ said:
Doppelkupplung said:
TISPKJ said:
6point2 said:
They're epic, don't be nervous - buy on condition and check clutch and brake wear.
Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Except, I really like your car and would like to buy it, can you prove to me that the car was in storage for 4 years and not in the bodyshop having a new front end welded on as I didn't put claim through the insurance company after crashing it on a track day ?Before I purchased mine it only had 5,000miles, the previous owner stored it for 4 years and it wasn't serviced during this time. No big deal - major service, replaced the battery and tyres and off I went. In the last 12 months I have doubled the mileage and only niggle was replacing a headlight bulb.
Like you it is my first Ferrari and have to say I'm in love
Also when I come to sell it how can I prove that to my buyer ?
I am sure your car is lovely but you get my point.
OP - Condition, History, and Provenance is everything with these cars.
However buying any supercar used you will always assume a certain level of risk
However the inference was that it was ok to buy a Ferrari with huge gaps in its history as long as it looked good and the clutch was ok.
For the OP new to the marque I would suggest that's probably not the best advice.
Buyers in the UK are very hung up on service history, so it would make the car more difficult to sell if one wants to though. Story is slightly different in Continental Europe where it seems buyers are not as fussy.
The car you give as an example looks lovely with the upgraded HGTE wheels and has been serviced regularly albeit every 2 rather than every 1 year. The annual mileage is incredibly low so I guess previous owners hardly thought it was worth it but there are still items that are time not mileage related eg brake fluid, air con gas etc...
My concern with these garage queens are more so how they have been stored eg heated, dehumidified garage, wheels off etc.. and were all the time related service items done in the subsequent services or was it just a cheap minor to get the book stamped.
If you can satisfy yourself on those 2 issues and the condition and drive stack up then fine go for it but expect the next owner to have the same concerns and price accordingly
My concern with these garage queens are more so how they have been stored eg heated, dehumidified garage, wheels off etc.. and were all the time related service items done in the subsequent services or was it just a cheap minor to get the book stamped.
If you can satisfy yourself on those 2 issues and the condition and drive stack up then fine go for it but expect the next owner to have the same concerns and price accordingly
I looked at a beautiful grey and sabbia 2010 HGTE with 5,000 miles on it about 3 years ago and it was £125k.
With an average of say 2,000 pa same car today would have 11,000 miles and be worth £180k.
Don't think I would want to spend that sort of money today on a 6 year old caras potential downside is definitely greater than any appreciation now.
Just be wary the market has cooled but some prices are still hyped up on the off chance someone with more money than sense turns up.
God forbid another oil crisis as that would really screw the 10 mpg cars
With an average of say 2,000 pa same car today would have 11,000 miles and be worth £180k.
Don't think I would want to spend that sort of money today on a 6 year old caras potential downside is definitely greater than any appreciation now.
Just be wary the market has cooled but some prices are still hyped up on the off chance someone with more money than sense turns up.
God forbid another oil crisis as that would really screw the 10 mpg cars
RamboLambo said:
I looked at a beautiful grey and sabbia 2010 HGTE with 5,000 miles on it about 3 years ago and it was £125k.
With an average of say 2,000 pa same car today would have 11,000 miles and be worth £180k.
Don't think I would want to spend that sort of money today on a 6 year old caras potential downside is definitely greater than any appreciation now.
Just be wary the market has cooled but some prices are still hyped up on the off chance someone with more money than sense turns up.
God forbid another oil crisis as that would really screw the 10 mpg cars
I somewhat agree but it seems that '08-'12 cars were generally undervalued so there was a big catch up from when the rest of the market went haywire. They are more or less aligned now and as such have the same exposure as the rest.With an average of say 2,000 pa same car today would have 11,000 miles and be worth £180k.
Don't think I would want to spend that sort of money today on a 6 year old caras potential downside is definitely greater than any appreciation now.
Just be wary the market has cooled but some prices are still hyped up on the off chance someone with more money than sense turns up.
God forbid another oil crisis as that would really screw the 10 mpg cars
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