308/328 Values
Discussion
torquespeak said:
Not heard about the Anglia auction just yet. Which Silverstone one were you referring to?
You haven't heard of it because it was a special auction that was only in my head... sorry dates mixed up, it is of course on the 21st February.torquespeak said:
Auction results are always to be taken with a pinch of salt. Some great cars can make too little; some bad cars can make too much.
I was at an auction in the summer last year where a 308 GTS was going under the hammer. I got underneath the car and saw another guy feeling the sill on the opposite side - it was literally crumbling away in his hand. Thought people would avoid it like the plague, but it made £87k with the premium. Two bidders got into a price war and clearly neither had properly inspected it. Hey ho.
True. The same sort of buyers would also pay over the top at a traders too.I was at an auction in the summer last year where a 308 GTS was going under the hammer. I got underneath the car and saw another guy feeling the sill on the opposite side - it was literally crumbling away in his hand. Thought people would avoid it like the plague, but it made £87k with the premium. Two bidders got into a price war and clearly neither had properly inspected it. Hey ho.
This is probably one of the many factors that push prices higher, very rarely do mistakes or lack of knowledge push prices down.
p.s. welcome to this thread, you are adding a very interesting insight into the subject. I actually bought my car from Foskers about 17 years ago.
NEFOC said:
I have 3 308s, standard Berlinetta, GTO bodied and GT4. Although the GT4 is wet sumped The longer wheelbase really does help The balance of che car. They are great fun on track and through the country lanes. Add an Accusump [sic] and you have no reliability issues. I really didn't rate the looks as I remember an uncared for car at a local dealership back in the 70s but the shape has really grown on me and I truly enjoy the car. Don't discount until you have driven one. However GTB is drop dead gorgeous.
Your sentiments about the GT4 are just spot on. Strong engine, wonderfully balanced, lovely 1970s wedge shape and a 2+2 to boot! It is my top pick for anyone with £50k considering their first classic Ferrari.Andy 308GTB said:
This is probably one of the many factors that push prices higher, very rarely do mistakes or lack of knowledge push prices down.
p.s. welcome to this thread, you are adding a very interesting insight into the subject. I actually bought my car from Foskers about 17 years ago.
You're not wrong (and thanks for the comment).p.s. welcome to this thread, you are adding a very interesting insight into the subject. I actually bought my car from Foskers about 17 years ago.
One factor that seems to be undervalued by some prospective buyers at the moment is the quality of a car's history. A friend of mine bought a wonderful 308 last year, with a huge and detailed history file, at what he knew was a fantastic price. Other prospective buyers had passed because it needed a new coat of paint. Sure, this would involve an outlay of several thousand pounds, but in the long run it would be money very well spent.
Cosmetic appearance and mechanical condition are of course very important, but virtually any issue with a car in these regards can be rectified. The same cannot be said for its history.
torquespeak said:
Your sentiments about the GT4 are just spot on. Strong engine, wonderfully balanced, lovely 1970s wedge shape and a 2+2 to boot! It is my top pick for anyone with £50k considering their first classic Ferrari.
They certainly look fantastic from some angles, and a metallic hue shows off the lines far better than the usual red.
torquespeak said:
Cosmetic appearance and mechanical condition are of course very important, but virtually any issue with a car in these regards can be rectified. The same cannot be said for its history.
Whilst you're undoubtedly right from an investment perspective, that comment is just reflective of how these cars have changed from being good, affordable and usable classics to being part of a "classic car portfolio". As soon as you start valuing paperwork over the actual condition of the car you are no longer interested in it's intrinsic value as a motor vehicle.Paperwork can be notoriously folly, fabricated or irrelevant to the current condition and usability of a car. It sells sought after classics though. Hell, with enough paperwork and a ropey enough car you could even have a fabled "barn find" on your hands!
itiejim said:
Paperwork can be notoriously folly, fabricated or irrelevant to the current condition and usability of a car.
So true. The only vehicle history worth seeing is the past 5 years. Beyond that it is irrelevant to assessing the current condition of the car and only has nostalgia value. People like seeing old receipts on yellowed paper typed on an Olympia. Very silly.Behemoth said:
itiejim said:
Paperwork can be notoriously folly, fabricated or irrelevant to the current condition and usability of a car.
So true. The only vehicle history worth seeing is the past 5 years. Beyond that it is irrelevant to assessing the current condition of the car and only has nostalgia value. People like seeing old receipts on yellowed paper typed on an Olympia. Very silly.Aero8 said:
I agree. From experience, a large amount of old paperwork doesn't necessarily prove a car has been well cared for in more recent years.
yup , quite agree , however if the car has been looked after in recent years accordingly , and also has earlier paperwork etc that is always a plus in my experience Nmj said:
Aero8 said:
I agree. From experience, a large amount of old paperwork doesn't necessarily prove a car has been well cared for in more recent years.
yup , quite agree , however if the car has been looked after in recent years accordingly , and also has earlier paperwork etc that is always a plus in my experience Nmj said:
yup , quite agree , however if the car has been looked after in recent years accordingly , and also has earlier paperwork etc that is always a plus in my experience
Yes, but really not worth more than 50-100 on the price. It's only of passing interest to look at old paperwork bashed out on an Olympia typewriter. Actually, many of my older receipts are hand written & barely legible.Behemoth said:
Yes, but really not worth more than 50-100 on the price. It's only of passing interest to look at old paperwork bashed out on an Olympia typewriter. Actually, many of my older receipts are hand written & barely legible.
Sorry but I totally disagree with you. A car that is 40+ years old is far far more attractive to a potential purchaser with a well documented history going back to day one. Recent expenditure and maintenance records, combined with mot's that show regular use are reasonable proof of a car that is in a good useable condition, but a paper trail back to birth gives it real provenance and a far greater desirability.
It also increases the value way beyond £50-100
dudlow said:
Sorry but I totally disagree with you.
A car that is 40+ years old is far far more attractive to a potential purchaser with a well documented history going back to day one. Recent expenditure and maintenance records, combined with mot's that show regular use are reasonable proof of a car that is in a good useable condition, but a paper trail back to birth gives it real provenance and a far greater desirability.
It also increases the value way beyond £50-100
The term provenance is just a piece of marketing differentiator bull imo. Who cares whether Alvin Stardust or Percy Smythe-Twittlethorpe once owned your car and got the belts done in Jan 1982? Do you really desire it far far more? A car that is 40+ years old is far far more attractive to a potential purchaser with a well documented history going back to day one. Recent expenditure and maintenance records, combined with mot's that show regular use are reasonable proof of a car that is in a good useable condition, but a paper trail back to birth gives it real provenance and a far greater desirability.
It also increases the value way beyond £50-100
More fool the buyer who's prepared to pay hefty premiums for a bunch of old receipts. Worth 50-100 tops to me. If someone wants to pay more, go ahead and rush in. A fool and his money are soon parted. I'll be moving on to a better car for the same wedge
Caruso said:
If the sheaf of receipts includes mileage readings that support a low mileage on the clock, then they become a lot more valuable.
Anyone with a modicum of mechanical knowledge can tell whether a car's done 5K or 50K. My 308 had a new speedo installed a few years ago. There's no way I could pass it off for a low mileage car. The evidence of wear is, umm, everywhere. The receipts themselves will be filtered, remember. The one for £2K spent in 1979 at Under the Arches Spray Shop removing dents and bodging back the chassis will have conveniently dropped out of your "full service history".
A decent pre purchase inspection is worth a lot more than a file of old receipts.
Behemoth said:
Anyone with a modicum of mechanical knowledge can tell whether a car's done 5K or 50K. My 308 had a new speedo installed a few years ago. There's no way I could pass it off for a low mileage car. The evidence of wear is, umm, everywhere.
The receipts themselves will be filtered, remember. The one for £2K spent in 1979 at Under the Arches Spray Shop removing dents and bodging back the chassis will have conveniently dropped out of your "full service history".
A decent pre purchase inspection is worth a lot more than a file of old receipts.
Could you really tell whether a 355 had covered 40,000 miles or 65,000 miles then just by looking at the 'wear'?The receipts themselves will be filtered, remember. The one for £2K spent in 1979 at Under the Arches Spray Shop removing dents and bodging back the chassis will have conveniently dropped out of your "full service history".
A decent pre purchase inspection is worth a lot more than a file of old receipts.
I consider myself competent at buying cars, but I viewed a 355 last year with 65k on the clock and it was in better condition than one with 40,000 on the clock.
A stamped book backed up by receipts reflects in the value of the car. Of that there is zero doubt. That's when a decent history file adds a great deal to the value and provenance of the car.
rubystone said:
Could you really tell whether a 355 had covered 40,000 miles or 65,000 miles then just by looking at the 'wear'?
I claimed nothing about spotting marginal mileage differences. But I could certainly tell whether a 355 had done 5K or 50K. If you saw a better car @ 65K than 40K then buy the 65K one. At least I would. Even if the 65K one had few receipts.
Edited by Behemoth on Friday 6th February 17:50
Behemoth said:
Yes, but really not worth more than 50-100 on the price. It's only of passing interest to look at old paperwork bashed out on an Olympia typewriter. Actually, many of my older receipts are hand written & barely legible.
each to their own opinion , thats what makes the world go round 
The Artcurial Paris Auction last Friday achieved a good price for a 1976 Ferrari 308 GTB 'Polyester' at £128431. See Lot 126. The two Boxers and the Testarossa also appeared to achieve strong prices - see Lots 107,116,134. (Apologies for including reference to the later cars under this thread).
gmarsh said:
The Artcurial Paris Auction last Friday achieved a good price for a 1976 Ferrari 308 GTB 'Polyester' at £128431. See Lot 126. The two Boxers and the Testarossa also appeared to achieve strong prices - see Lots 107,116,134. (Apologies for including reference to the later cars under this thread).
But, but...bubble?[joking]
Good prices indeed. It would be interesting to see a bit more information about the cars but I'm not surprised to see the Boxers hitting those values as they really are one hell of a car.
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