308/328 Values

[gmarsh]

Listed on US EBay is a '"New" 1977 Ferrari 308 GTB Euro Spec Dry Sump' which is for sale in Canada, listed with zero(0) miles. There is a full description of the cars restoration, taken apart and rebuilt apparently, and is described as ' First time offered fro sale, fully restored euro spec dry sump steel 308' etc. The VIN number is shown as 2196X and has the tan VM3218 interior. Good 'photos show car as LHD, without the dreadful large US bumpers and marker lights. Sellers details are shown in the listing. Price is $345000. Thought I would share this with 308/328 owners who read this thread.

Edited by gmarsh on Saturday 14th February 10:52

[Jimbo0912]

torquespeak said:

Hi James, just to add some context here, we're selling very good (but not exceptional) 308 GT4s for £45k. Needless to say, the car you link to is a different proposition altogether: 14000-mile concours-winning car in Rosso Corsa with full Crema hide, the original delivery plastic around the corners of the door cards, and a huge history file.

Thanks for the response :-) but just out of interest, how much would that car have cost 3.5 years ago? £25k? £30k tops? ;-) How much was an average 308GT4 going for at the time? £15k

I know some disagree but I see significant similarities with the situation in the late 80’s/early 90’s.

What events preceded the collapse in values that are very similar to today?

1) Auction companies popping up everywhere in order to exploit increasing prices and resulting commissions;
2) Prices inflated by significant percentages in periods measured in weeks and not years. Amari are currently advertising a Lamborghini Miura S. They bought it for less than £600k, first advertised 6 months ago at £895k, 2 months ago they increased the price to £995k and now it's been increased by further £300k to £1.25m: http://www.amarisupercars.com/detail?vid=88787 - There are an increasing number of examples of this happening.
3) The same identical cars being sold again and again and again, sometimes in a matter of months;
4) Broadsheet press articles touting classic cars as 'investments';
5) Italian cars particularly Ferraris increasing massively in value - Compound annual rates of return of over 20% in the past 4-5 years for most Ferraris. Even higher gains for the best cars;
6) Cars sold to speculators and not to collectors. A recent BBC documentary on Joe Macari showed them trying to sell a 365 GTC/4 to a speculator who had no interest in it beyond it being an investment vehicle. The potential buyer had absolutely no interest in how it looked or drove but intended to store it for a year before flipping it.

I'd be astonished if this continues for more than a couple of years.

[bertie]

Jimbo0912 said:

Thanks for the response :-) but just out of interest, how much would that car have cost 3.5 years ago? £25k? £30k tops? ;-) How much was an average 308GT4 going for at the time? £15k

I know some disagree but I see significant similarities with the situation in the late 80’s/early 90’s.

What events preceded the collapse in values that are very similar to today?

1) Auction companies popping up everywhere in order to exploit increasing prices and resulting commissions;
2) Prices inflated by significant percentages in periods measured in weeks and not years. Amari are currently advertising a Lamborghini Miura S. They bought it for less than £600k, first advertised 6 months ago at £895k, 2 months ago they increased the price to £995k and now it's been increased by further £300k to £1.25m: http://www.amarisupercars.com/detail?vid=88787 - There are an increasing number of examples of this happening.
3) The same identical cars being sold again and again and again, sometimes in a matter of months;
4) Broadsheet press articles touting classic cars as 'investments';
5) Italian cars particularly Ferraris increasing massively in value - Compound annual rates of return of over 20% in the past 4-5 years for most Ferraris. Even higher gains for the best cars;
6) Cars sold to speculators and not to collectors. A recent BBC documentary on Joe Macari showed them trying to sell a 365 GTC/4 to a speculator who had no interest in it beyond it being an investment vehicle. The potential buyer had absolutely no interest in how it looked or drove but intended to store it for a year before flipping it.

I'd be astonished if this continues for more than a couple of years.

I think you're probably right, I'm not selling so I'm not too bothered, but I hope you're wrong.

[Jonty355]

Same here, decided to just sell the 355 and keep my 308 GTB. I was originally selling both Ferraris because I fancied a DB9. However I think I'd maybe been a little bit too optimistic on what the my GTBi was worth to begin with after talking with nmj on here.

Anyway, I've made a compromise, once the F355 goes, I'll just buy a DB7 instead of the DB9. That way I get to keep my 308! Simple.

[bertie]

Jonty355 said:

Same here, decided to just sell the 355 and keep my 308 GTB. I was originally selling both Ferraris because I fancied a DB9. However I think I'd maybe been a little bit too optimistic on what the my GTBi was worth to begin with after talking with nmj on here.

Anyway, I've made a compromise, once the F355 goes, I'll just buy a DB7 instead of the DB9. That way I get to keep my 308! Simple.

Noooooooooooo!!!!

Seriously, I wouldn't swap a 355 for a DB9 let alone a DB7.

[Nmj]

Jonty355 said:

Same here, decided to just sell the 355 and keep my 308 GTB. I was originally selling both Ferraris because I fancied a DB9. However I think I'd maybe been a little bit too optimistic on what the my GTBi was worth to begin with after talking with nmj on here.

Anyway, I've made a compromise, once the F355 goes, I'll just buy a DB7 instead of the DB9. That way I get to keep my 308! Simple.

a DB7 , really !!!!!!!

[NEFOC]

Nmj said:

Jonty355 said:

Same here, decided to just sell the 355 and keep my 308 GTB. I was originally selling both Ferraris because I fancied a DB9. However I think I'd maybe been a little bit too optimistic on what the my GTBi was worth to begin with after talking with nmj on here.

Anyway, I've made a compromise, once the F355 goes, I'll just buy a DB7 instead of the DB9. That way I get to keep my 308! Simple.

a DB7 , really !!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOO

The 7 is a dog. I had a 9 for 3 years and it's a great road car. They are on;y around the 30k mark, so you can definitely get one when you sell the 355. Kids in the back too until they are about 11 so keep it for some low depreciation driving.

7 is a 3k Jag XKR with a different nose. NO NO NO

[NEFOC]

NO

[Gavc]

The DB9 is a great car and probably at the bottom of the depreciation curve far better made and more modern than the DB7. £35k will buy you one with 50k mileage and 12 months motoring without any major expenses. I have both a 308gt4 and the DB9, great combination in driving styles and classic looks. Recommended.

[Jonty355]

I'm not expecting it to be anything like as much fun as the F355, its more just for something a bit special to take the family out in. Believe me if I could afford to keep the 355 and 308 I would. But one has to go. The 308 is cheaper to run and I've had the 355 for over 7 years now so time to focus on something different.

As for DB7 Vs DB9, when running alongside the 308GTB I'd rather get the DB7 i6 and leave a comfortable margin for unforseen outgoings than stretch to a DB9. Plus Manual DB9's are few and far between, which I'm not sure the auto box is overly great?

However, I'm yet to drive either DB7 or DB9, so I may change my mind. Other option is a TVR Cerbera?

Edited by Jonty355 on Tuesday 17th February 17:42

[bertie]

Jonty355 said:

I'm not expecting it to be anything like as much fun as the F355, its more just for something a bit special to take the family out in. Believe me if I could afford to keep the 355 and 308 I would. But one has to go. The 308 is cheaper to run and I've had the 355 for over 7 years now so time to focus on something different.

As for DB7 Vs DB9, when running alongside the 308GTB I'd rather get the DB7 i6 and leave a comfortable margin for unforseen outgoings than stretch to a DB9. Plus Manual DB9's are few and far between, which I'm not sure the auto box is overly great?

However, I'm yet to drive either DB7 or DB9, so I may change my mind. Other option is a TVR Cerbera?

Edited by Jonty355 on Tuesday 17th February 17:42

Wow, a Cerbera is a very different animal, very raw, rear room is marginal, and if you're worried about running costs on the 355, the Speed 6 is a great engine but potentially ruinous and the AJP8 not exactly refined.

Off the wall thought but having just sold one, how about a Bentley GT?

They've bottomed out price wise, roomy, comfortable, feel special and are a good contrast to the 308, they are very well engineered and hugely underrated IMHO.

[Roony]

I bought my 328 several years ago for mid 20s.....and because I wanted a 328 to own and drive.... If it was still worth mid 20s would I be bothered? Probably not as I love the car and not its value.

I think any buyer is playing a risky game now buying a car for mid 70k plus and hoping that it will further increase in value.

[Jonty355]

bertie said:

Wow, a Cerbera is a very different animal, very raw, rear room is marginal, and if you're worried about running costs on the 355, the Speed 6 is a great engine but potentially ruinous and the AJP8 not exactly refined.

Off the wall thought but having just sold one, how about a Bentley GT?

They've bottomed out price wise, roomy, comfortable, feel special and are a good contrast to the 308, they are very well engineered and hugely underrated IMHO.

Bentley just isn't me. I'm not footballer-ish enough to own one. I'm too common.

I like raw, so the Cerb would be good. I think both engines can suffer from some big bills. If the Speed 6 engine has been sorted then I think they're supposed to be ok. The AJP8 engine however is just constantly in need of expensive work from what I can tell.

[bertie]

Jonty355 said:

bertie said:

Wow, a Cerbera is a very different animal, very raw, rear room is marginal, and if you're worried about running costs on the 355, the Speed 6 is a great engine but potentially ruinous and the AJP8 not exactly refined.

Off the wall thought but having just sold one, how about a Bentley GT?

They've bottomed out price wise, roomy, comfortable, feel special and are a good contrast to the 308, they are very well engineered and hugely underrated IMHO.

Bentley just isn't me. I'm not footballer-ish enough to own one. I'm too common.

I like raw, so the Cerb would be good. I think both engines can suffer from some big bills. If the Speed 6 engine has been sorted then I think they're supposed to be ok. The AJP8 engine however is just constantly in need of expensive work from what I can tell.

I understand what you're saying, indeed I felt the same about Bentley, also I felt not old enough, but if you want room for someone over 6 in the back, they really are very good.

[Jonty355]

bertie said:

Jonty355 said:

bertie said:

Wow, a Cerbera is a very different animal, very raw, rear room is marginal, and if you're worried about running costs on the 355, the Speed 6 is a great engine but potentially ruinous and the AJP8 not exactly refined.

Off the wall thought but having just sold one, how about a Bentley GT?

They've bottomed out price wise, roomy, comfortable, feel special and are a good contrast to the 308, they are very well engineered and hugely underrated IMHO.

Bentley just isn't me. I'm not footballer-ish enough to own one. I'm too common.

I like raw, so the Cerb would be good. I think both engines can suffer from some big bills. If the Speed 6 engine has been sorted then I think they're supposed to be ok. The AJP8 engine however is just constantly in need of expensive work from what I can tell.

I understand what you're saying, indeed I felt the same about Bentley, also I felt not old enough, but if you want room for someone over 6 in the back, they really are very good.

My daughter is only 2 years old, so leg space in the back isn't too important.

[bertie]

Jonty355 said:

bertie said:

Jonty355 said:

bertie said:

Wow, a Cerbera is a very different animal, very raw, rear room is marginal, and if you're worried about running costs on the 355, the Speed 6 is a great engine but potentially ruinous and the AJP8 not exactly refined.

Off the wall thought but having just sold one, how about a Bentley GT?

They've bottomed out price wise, roomy, comfortable, feel special and are a good contrast to the 308, they are very well engineered and hugely underrated IMHO.

Bentley just isn't me. I'm not footballer-ish enough to own one. I'm too common.

I like raw, so the Cerb would be good. I think both engines can suffer from some big bills. If the Speed 6 engine has been sorted then I think they're supposed to be ok. The AJP8 engine however is just constantly in need of expensive work from what I can tell.

I understand what you're saying, indeed I felt the same about Bentley, also I felt not old enough, but if you want room for someone over 6 in the back, they really are very good.

My daughter is only 2 years old, so leg space in the back isn't too important.

I love TVRs , had 6 of them including a Cerbera, but I don't think you'd get a child seat in the back of a Cerbera

How about a 911?

Edited by bertie on Tuesday 17th February 21:12

[Andy 308GTB]

Jonty355 said:

My daughter is only 2 years old, so leg space in the back isn't too important.

Give it time.

[Jonty355]

bertie said:

I love TVRs , had 6 of them including a Cerbera, but I don't think you'd get a child seat in the back of a Cerbera

How about a 911?

Edited by bertie on Tuesday 17th February 21:12

Sorry but never been a Porsche man either. 911's in the same price bracket are just a bit dull.

[bertie]

Jonty355 said:

Sorry but never been a Porsche man either. 911's in the same price bracket are just a bit dull.

Ok, Jaguar XK8?

[Jonty355]

bertie said:

Jonty355 said:

Sorry but never been a Porsche man either. 911's in the same price bracket are just a bit dull.

Ok, Jaguar XK8?

Only available with an auto and just not rare enough.