Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

[ferrisbueller]

Napolis said:

On March 14th 2016 Mauro Forghieri Confirmed in writing, in front of witnesses and on video that the chassis in the Glickenhaus P3/P4 is the original P3/P4 Chassis of the car that won The 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.

http://p45c.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Mauro08...

That signature is 12mm too long.

[Napolis]

ferrisbueller said:

That signature is 12mm too long.

[Petrus1983]

Tick tock, tick tock.... It's just a matter of time



Napolis - will the car ever be in the UK in the foreseeable future?

[Napolis]

Next at The Anniversary of The 100th Targa Florio.

Our SCG 003C race program and our SCG 003S road car program are keeping me pretty busy but one fine day I hope it will.

Cheers!

[Burwood]

Petrus1983 said:

Tick tock, tick tock.... It's just a matter of time



Napolis - will the car ever be in the UK in the foreseeable future?

Got that spot on-his head probably just exploded

[SHutchinson]

Napolis said:

Our SCG 003C race program and our SCG 003S road car program are keeping me pretty busy but one fine day I hope it will.

Cheers!

How's the race program going? The car looks great.

[Silent1]

Napolis said:

On March 14th 2016 Mauro Forghieri Confirmed in writing, in front of witnesses and on video that the chassis in the Glickenhaus P3/P4 is the original P3/P4 Chassis of the car that won The 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.

http://p45c.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Mauro08...

It's a shame you felt you had to go to such lengths to disprove one person but at the same time i'm glad to see you have because now there's no way a reasonable person could accuse you of misrepresenting your own car (of course it wont stop the more unhinged members of society)

[Burwood]

Silent1 said:

Napolis said:

On March 14th 2016 Mauro Forghieri Confirmed in writing, in front of witnesses and on video that the chassis in the Glickenhaus P3/P4 is the original P3/P4 Chassis of the car that won The 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.

http://p45c.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Mauro08...

It's a shame you felt you had to go to such lengths to disprove one person but at the same time i'm glad to see you have because now there's no way a reasonable person could accuse you of misrepresenting your own car (of course it wont stop the more unhinged members of society)

Any owner of such a rare thing would take it as far as possible to prove what they already knew. Silence the critics. Well done Napolis

[miurasv]

The following is an email I sent to Ing. Mauro Forghieri after reading the signed letter from him posted a few days ago, his response, my response to that and his further reply:


16th March, 2016.

FAO: Ing. Mauro Forghieri.

From: Steven Robertson.

Dear Ing. Forghieri,

Re: Ferrari 330 P3/4 0846.

I hope this message finds you well?

Some time back you very kindly answered some questions I had regarding a chassis whose owner, James Glickenhaus, claimed that it is that of the 1967 Daytona winner, 330 P3/4 0846. You examined some pictures of the engine mountings of this chassis and concluded the following in quotation marks.

"Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount. Your chassis is a P3 arranged by some body to accept the P4 engine and the correct wheelbase 2400."

Naturally, from your above reply, I and many others in the Ferrari community, concluded that the chassis owned by Mr Glickenhaus could not be that of the original 0846 that won Daytona in 1967. However a copy of a letter, which is attached to this email, from you dated the 14th of March, 2016 addressed to Mr Glickenhaus has today been posted on the web site www.ferrarichat.com in which you confirm that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is that of the original 0846. Please see the attached letter. Is this true, Ing. Forghieri?

I, and many others, would greatly appreciate your reply very much indeed. We look forward to hearing from you and I thank you in advance for your attention.

With the utmost respect,

Kind regards,

Steven Robertson.




The following is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 17th March, 2016:

Dear Mr Robertson
Yes this is the letter I sign after a meeting
With Mr Glickenhaus. I confirm also the letter to you after I have seen the way in wich somebody have modified in the engine bay the chassis ( the single
photo from you)
As you see in the letter to Mr Glickenhaus I wrote that i reconize the chassis of the car modified in December 66 but I did not say that it was the 0846 car.This do not exist any more
because of the modification done by somebody after the Le Man's 67 and not from my dpt as per your photo.
I told this also to Mr Glickenhaus and confirmed also to him by some statement by Ferrari.He have a P4 only.
Best Regards
Forghieri




I then replied to the above on the 17th of March, 2016 as follows:

Dear Ing. Forghieri.

Thank you very much indeed for your reply. It is very much appreciated and I am extremely grateful. However, I am now very confused. In your letter to Mr Glickenhaus you confirm that you modified Mr Glickenhaus's actual chassis and that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual chassis that won the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona. Please see your wording below in quotation marks:

"Dear James,

After studying the P3/P4 Chassis in the car owned today by you I confirm that this is the original P3 Chassis that I modified in December 1966 to accept a P4 engine and that this original modified chassis then went on to win The 1967 24 Hours Of Daytona.

- Ing. Mauro Forghieri"

In your letter to me some time ago you confirmed that the Ferrari Factory would never have accepted the solution on Mr Glickenhaus's chassis to bolt the chassis to the engine but you confirm above that you did modifify his actual chassis and that his chassis is the Daytona winner. This is firstly saying you did not modify it in your letter to me but you are saying you did modify it in your letter to Mr Glickenhaus. History proves chassis number 0846 was the 1967 Daytona winner. You say in your reply to me that chassis number 0846 does not exist any more so please could you explain how Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner as the 1967 Daytona winner was 0846. You also stated that you didn't say Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is 0846 but if his chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner then it must be 0846? Is this the case? Is your letter to Mr Glickenhaus being interpreted correctly?

I and many others in the Ferrari community would be extremely grateful to you, Ing. Forghieri if you would be kind enough to clarify your statements and let us know if Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846. Many people are now reading your letter and taking it as proof that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846.

We look forward very much to your reply and I thank you in advance for your attention.

With the utmost respect,

Kind regards,

Steven Robertson.




Below is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 18th of March, 2016:

My Dear Mr.Robertson
I realize that in USA is a fight also for vintage car.The letter to Mr
Glickenhaus is allready around the world.
I will try to explain what, I was believing clear:
1) THE car is a P4 but without number of factory.As per many statement.
2)I reconize that the front end was the one i modify
slighly.The"original"was prepared for the test in december at Daytona
test and the winner at 24 h.I did not say the 0846 for the present chassi.
3)If it is true that the car was purchased by an englisch driver the only
number useful can be ,if i remember well the story,0003.Can somebody
believe this?
Somebody try to repair the distorced chassi with the poor arrangement your
photo schow to me.So this was done after LE Mans.
I hope that nobody can define in future the Mr Glickenhaus P4 with the 0846,
this number do not exist anymore for every Ferrari expert.
B.Regards
Forghieri

[Petrus1983]

Whilst interesting to a degree, just leave it alone. Go and turn on BBC News this evening - the world has far more things to worry about than a silly car from the 60's, and I don't mean that rudely to Napolis, but it's just a freaking car. He has gone to extensive lengths to show provenance and has had to endure Italian meals whilst drinking excellent red wine with legends.... give the guy a break.

[miurasv]

Based on the supplied documents Ing. Forghieri has clarified his findings to date regarding Mr Glickenhaus's chassis.

Edited by miurasv on Saturday 23 April 19:05

[4rephill]

Napolis: So sorry to see you having to put up with the same old st on here that you have to put up with on Ferrarichat.com!

Why certain people on both sites seem to have made it their lifetime hobby to harass you and run a witch-hunt against you is beyond My understanding. (Enzo Ferrari would probably have pssed himself laughing at how het-up they are getting about this whole situation if he were still alive!)

I have to say that I do admire your patience! - If it were Me, I would have told them all long ago: "You know what?, I don't give a rats rectum about what you think! I'll enjoy the cars to the full, and you'll never even know what it's like to drive them, let alone own them!"

I for one am just glad to know your cars are in good hands and are enjoyed as they should be.

All the best to you and your family (I've left a message on FChat, in the Ferrari Discussion section)

Phill

[ferrisbueller]

Oh Joy, the thread has been released back in to the wild.

[Silent1]

ferrisbueller said:

Oh Joy, the thread has been released back in to the wild.

Did it get binned? Or you mean someone has bumped it pointlessly?

[Napolis]

4rephill said:

Napolis: So sorry to see you having to put up with the same old st on here that you have to put up with on Ferrarichat.com!

Why certain people on both sites seem to have made it their lifetime hobby to harass you and run a witch-hunt against you is beyond My understanding. (Enzo Ferrari would probably have pssed himself laughing at how het-up they are getting about this whole situation if he were still alive!)

I have to say that I do admire your patience! - If it were Me, I would have told them all long ago: "You know what?, I don't give a rats rectum about what you think! I'll enjoy the cars to the full, and you'll never even know what it's like to drive them, let alone own them!"

I for one am just glad to know your cars are in good hands and are enjoyed as they should be.

All the best to you and your family (I've left a message on FChat, in the Ferrari Discussion section)

Phill

Thanks. I'm no longer on FCHAT, haven't been there for a while. Tough week with my Dad and Meg's brother dying. If you need to reach me I'm on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/ScuderiaCameronGlickenhau...

Best!

[James Drake]

Silent1 said:

ferrisbueller said:

Oh Joy, the thread has been released back in to the wild.

Did it get binned? Or you mean someone has bumped it pointlessly?

It was temporarily hidden whilst there was some debate over the correctness of the title, which has now been agreed upon (and you'll note amended).

Thanks

JD

[ferrisbueller]

James Drake said:

Silent1 said:

ferrisbueller said:

Oh Joy, the thread has been released back in to the wild.

Did it get binned? Or you mean someone has bumped it pointlessly?

It was temporarily hidden whilst there was some debate over the correctness of the title, which has now been agreed upon (and you'll note amended).

Thanks

JD

Pulled because of the title?! That's ironic.

Some of the rules on this forum are weird. I dealer or service provider can sell you a lemon or treat you like st and you can't post about it, but one man's pursuit of another for a reason that's unclear is OK?

I don't know either party but one appears to be rabid.....

If it's going to continue, should the person with the beef clearly state exactly what skin they have in this game, who they are and what they want out of this.

The identity of the other is well publicised, as is his interest in the matter. It's only fair the other person does the same IMO.

[4rephill]

Napolis said:

Thanks. I'm no longer on FCHAT, haven't been there for a while. Tough week with my Dad and Meg's brother dying. If you need to reach me I'm on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/ScuderiaCameronGlickenhau...

Best!

I suspected that was the case with Fchat, I just thought I'd let you know that some of the members there had paid their respects, just in case they hadn't been in touch with you.

Please accept My sincere condolences and give all My best wishes to Meg and your whole family, I can appreciate how stressful things must be right now.

As I've posted on Fchat: "Always remember the good times!"

Thank you for the facebook link - I'll be sure to use that for future correspondence.

All the Best,

Phill



(My apologies to others in this thread for the slight hijacking of it. Carry on - If you must!)

[miurasv]

Since my last post in this thread I have been corresponding with Ing. Forghieri. He had thought he identified Mr Glickenhaus's car as the car he took to Daytona for testing and modification in 1966 and therefore the 1967 Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler. He had only glanced at it as a tourist at Amelia Island. He had not subjected the car to a technical analysis and he had not thoroughly examined the chassis. Mr Glickenhaus has sent him no documentation. Over the last weeks he has done quite a bit of research and has spoken to people in Modena about Tom Meade, Mike Parkes, David Piper and Enzo Ferrari on the position of the P4 drawings etc.

After speaking to people regarding the above characters he thought it possible that Tom Meade had built the chassis along with chassis builders from Modena. Ing. Forghieri thought that only the front part of the chassis was from the "famous" P3 and could not say what percentage of the front part with the rear part being from another P3, but he didn't know the origin of it. That said, he considered the car to be a replica as Ferrari had deleted the number 0846 and the Glickenhaus chassis has no number or the number 0003. He said that anyone can build a P4 but they will never be able to chose a number already cancelled by "mother" Ferrari.

As Ing. Forghieri had said he had identified the car as the Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler, I sent him pictures of the front of the chassis of Mr Glickenhaus's car. After looking at the pictures he replied that this was not the car he took to Daytona for testing. It is therefore not the 1967 Daytona winner. Ing. Forghieri stated that he is in full agreement with Christian Huet about the chassis, who he had spoken to in the past.

I have since sent Ing. Forghieri some other pictures of the rear of the chassis as I have noticed some differences, that have not been discussed before, in its structure/build that I thought differed from that of a genuine P3 or 412P chassis. He has replied in writing that the rear of the chassis has been made new. The differences I identified would not have been made by the chassis builders that made the original Ferrari P3 and P4 chassis and that the biggest differences are at the front of the chassis from a genuine one. Ing. Forghieri has therefore concluded that Mr Glickenhaus's car/chassisis is not original P4.

So here we have it:The Glickenhaus car does not contain parts of the original chassis of 0846 and and does not contain the chassis that was modified by Mauro Forghieri that went on to win the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.

[ferrisbueller]

miurasv said:

Blah

Would you mind clarifying what your interest is here please?