Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

[ferrisbueller]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

ferrisbueller said:

Reading between the lines.......

Reading between your lines, you've continually insulted the OP and tried to rubbish his evidence at every opportunity without offering any contradictions, for some reason. You don't see the parallels between what you claim of the OP and what you personally attempt?

If under your reasoning the OP must have a vested interest in the case, what interest do you have in your trolling of his thread?

Regardless of not following your train of thought, what I didn't add to my reply, which I should have, is that I re-read the whole thread and can accept how one of my posts could considered to be trolling. For that I apologise as it is not what I'm about and I will delete accordingly.

[Muzzer79]

I'll say again.....

Muzzer79 said:

OP - For the love of God, just give it up.

Literally no-one cares.....

[Mousem40]

Muzzer79 said:

I'll say again.....

Muzzer79 said:

OP - For the love of God, just give it up.

Literally no-one cares.....

Speak for yourself. Some people do care including 'Napoli', because if he didn't, he'd stop posting.

[Bluebottle911]

Glad to see this thread has come back to life - I was beginning to think this source of entertainement might have been irretrievably lost!!

[robm3]

What a fascinating thread, truly.

Just to be clear do the recent photos show a chassis without the modification it currently has or just that the engine is located differently?
Not that it 'proves' anything definitely as the modification possibly could have been done after the photos.

I suppose the metallurgy aspect mentioned earlier for other important cars would be one way to gain proof either way.

After spending quite a few hours reading all the threads on different forums I'm inclined to believe the chassis is indeed a replication but it's only my view (and I've certainly been wrong before).

That aside James, the owner, seems like a hell of a guy and a great petrolhead.

[miurasv]

robm3 said:

What a fascinating thread, truly.

Just to be clear do the recent photos show a chassis without the modification it currently has or just that the engine is located differently?
Not that it 'proves' anything definitely as the modification possibly could have been done after the photos.

I suppose the metallurgy aspect mentioned earlier for other important cars would be one way to gain proof either way.

After spending quite a few hours reading all the threads on different forums I'm inclined to believe the chassis is indeed a replication but it's only my view (and I've certainly been wrong before).

That aside James, the owner, seems like a hell of a guy and a great petrolhead.

The pictures show the chassis had been correctly modified by Ferrari to accept a P4 engine and had the same engine mountings as the other real P4s at Daytona, 1967 and did not contain the less than ideal solution to bolt the chassis to the engine that the Glickenhaus chassis has. Don't forget that Ing. Forghieri, the car's designer, said the following after looking at the pictures of the engine mountings on the Glickenhaus car: "Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount."

Edited by miurasv on Monday 1st August 15:22

[Andy 308GTB]

I hadn't caught up on the FChat thread for a little while. It's worth reading.

Elex (miurasv on FChat) is now being applauded for proving that '0846' is a recreation.
The mans tenacity appears to have been worthwhile.

[Petrus1983]

Do you have a link?

[Mousem40]

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-...

I guess it gets interesting and terminal around page 455 or a bit earlier.

[miurasv]

After considering information and pictures sent to him of the DP0003 Glickenhaus chassis and cylinder block stampings, Ing. Mauro Forghieri, designer/creator at Ferrari of the real 330 P3/P4 #0846, sent me an email on 10th May, 2016, the content of which, in his words in Italian, is as follows below. Scroll down for English translation:

"Gent.mo Sig. Robertson
Io penso che lei sia il maggiore esperto di P4 esistente.La serie di foto
che mi ha inviato mi hanno fatto enorme piacere, in particolare quella
della 412 s/n854
prima nuda e poi in restauro.Le devo comunque fare osservare che sia la
vettura
di Glinkenhaus che la vera P4 s/n 0858 non hanno il tubo da lei indicato
con le frecce rosse nella foto n 4(412 P s/n0854 ) mentre hanno il tubo
che lei indica
sempre con le frecce nella foto n 3(dp3 arrows).Questo diversa soluzione è
dovuta alle differenze tra motore 412 e 330.La parte posteriore del telaio
della falsa P4 di Glinkenhaus è stata fatta nuova e questi particolari non
potevano sfuggire ai carrozzieri, che avevano già costruito vere P4.E'
nella parte anteriore che non è stata rifatta, che mi sembra sia la
maggiore distanza dal vero.Lei dimostra comunque che la vettura di
Glinkenhaus non è una P4 originale con le sue foto relative al motore,ed
inoltre la posizione della stessa Ferrari, che ha negato il numero a cui è
molto affezzionato Glinkenhaus,e la mia stessa convinzione negativa e
quanto asserito da altri non dovrebbe fare credere che questa vettura
possa essere considerata originale.Io non sono potuto andare in Sicilia
per motivi di salute e di lavoro, ma sarò a Montecarlo.Ho cercato di fare
chiarezza sui due tipi di telaio per evitarle commenti e problematiche.
Grazie per
tutto con infinite cordialità e rispetto
Mauro Forghieri"




Gabriele Longoni very kindly translated Ing. Forghieri's above email which is as below:


"Dearest Mr.Robertson

I believe you are the biggest P4 expert living nowadays.

I really liked the set of pictures you sent, especially the one about 412 s/n0854 bare chassis and during restoration.

Please note, however, that both Glickenhaus’ car and the real P4 #0858 don’t have the tube you pointed with red arrows on picture n°4 (412P s/n0854) while they have the tube you point with arrows on picture n°3 (dp3 arrows).

This different configuration is because of the differences between a 412 and a 330 engine.

The rear portion of Glickenhaus’ fake P4 is completely new and these details couldn’t have been missed by coachbuilders that built real P4s.

I believe that the biggest differences from a real one are in the front section.

You, with those engine pictures, are proving that Glickenhaus’ car is not a real P4; and Ferrari’s belief too is proving it, because they refuse the number that Glickenhaus loves most; my personal negative belief then and what others said should make anyone believe that this car is original.

I could not travel to Sicily due to health and work issues, but I will go to Montecarlo.

I tried to make things more clear to avoid further problems to you.

Thanks for everything, respectfully and with the best regards.

Mauro Forghieri"

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 2nd May 07:53

[Caviar]

facinating stuff

[smash]

Good God I thought Paul Skett was tenacious but you are literally top man!

Edited by smash on Monday 10th July 17:15

[ferrisbueller]

I for one am sat here which a large slice of humble pie ready for consumption. I'm waiting for Napolis to respond before tucking in.

In the meantime I note David Piper's contributions in the article in the summer edition of Classic & Sports Car which makes passing reference to the issue.

[Never you mind]

Read the FChat thread on the train this morning (really really early) so my brain wasn't in gear but in short , the car reporting to be 0846 isn't really 0846 but a replica built from the plans that someone got of Enzo Ferrari on the basis he was going to build 1 and in the end built 3? Was it sold as such or not?

[miurasv]

Never you mind said:

Read the FChat thread on the train this morning (really really early) so my brain wasn't in gear but in short , the car reporting to be 0846 isn't really 0846 but a replica built from the plans that someone got of Enzo Ferrari on the basis he was going to build 1 and in the end built 3? Was it sold as such or not?

David Piper described the car as a replica which is what Mr Glickenhaus agreed to buy and bought from him. Piper has been emphatic all along that the chassis is a replica and that the engine is a 3 litre 312 F1 engine, not a P4 engine as Mr Glickenhaus claimed for years. Now that I have proved with photographs that the engine is a 312 F1 engine Mr Glickenhaus has changed his story to suit the evidence by stating that Ferrari rebuilt 0846 with a 3 litre engine after the Le Mans fire and tested it at Mugello where it crashed again. It's not true. The chassis of 0846 was dismantled by Ferrari after Le Mans where it burned in June, 1967, was scrapped by Ferrari and never used again.

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 11th July 15:42