Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car
Discussion
Elex said:
Silent1 said:
Elex, what do you want to get out of this?
Let me tell you what I get out of this: I am passionate about the history of Ferrari and it sickens me that that history is being distorted by Mr Glickenhaus claiming that his replica is the original 0846. The link below by Road & Track is just one example where the Piper/Glickenhaus chassis is being stated as 0846 which is of course total BS. If I can inform people of the true facts then I admit to taking pleasure from that.http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/ferrari-330...
NEWS FROM CHRISTIAN HUET - AUTHOR OF THE "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" PUBLISHED IN JAMES GLICKENHAUS'S 0846 DOCUMENT.
The following is from pages 63 and 64 of James Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
Glickenhaus says: "I thought about that and recently noticed something.
The following is taken from the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" of "330 P3/P4 Chassis n.
0846" The only car in all the Technical Data Sheets labeled "330 P3/P4"
" -330 P3/P4 -
SCHEDA TECNICA" (TECHNICAL DATA SHEET)
330 P3/P4 (1967)
Telaio N 0846
Trasformazione di un modello P3 secondo le caratteristiche del modello P4.
TELAIO
Telaio Tipo 593/603. Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del
telaio per i nuovi putoni del motore
Tipo 237."
"330 P3/P4 (1967)
Chassis n. 0846
64
Transformation of a P3 model according to the characteristics of the P4
model.
Chassis
Type 593/603. Transformation of the tubular part at the rear of the chassis
for new Type 237 [P4] engine mountings."
Glickenhaus says: This transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is clearly visible on my chassis and doesn't exist
on 0900, 0900a, or 0856 as they are built to the 1967 P4 chassis blueprints. By comparing
my chassis with P3 0844, one can see how this transformation from P3 to P4 was done."
No, James, the above transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is NOT clearly visible in your chassis and I will explain why:
Recently I have been communicating with Christian Huet, the highly regarded French Ferrari writer who is the author of the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" above which is cited in JG's pdf document and other places as proof that his chassis is the original and authentic 0846. Please note that James Glickenhaus does not give credit to Christian Huet or his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P as the source of information that he has copied and published in his 0846 document.
Regarding the engine mountings of the original and real 0846 Christian Huet stated in writing (in French which was translated):
"I have found the notebook for my books about Ferrari, where I wrote my questions and Mauro Forghieri's replies. Concerning 0846, the modification of the P3 type 593 chassis, into a P4 type 603 required the total replacement of the rear of the chassis, which was then, absolutely identical to those of the P4s type 603."
After looking at the pictures from his 0846 document of the engine mountings on James Glickenhaus's chassis, Christian Huet stated the following:
"Concerning the photos showing the engine mounting of the P4 motor on "the so-called 0846", I deduce that it's a "DIY job" without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari, which I have studied/known for many years."
I have the written permission of Christian Huet to share his information.
The following is from pages 63 and 64 of James Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
Glickenhaus says: "I thought about that and recently noticed something.
The following is taken from the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" of "330 P3/P4 Chassis n.
0846" The only car in all the Technical Data Sheets labeled "330 P3/P4"
" -330 P3/P4 -
SCHEDA TECNICA" (TECHNICAL DATA SHEET)
330 P3/P4 (1967)
Telaio N 0846
Trasformazione di un modello P3 secondo le caratteristiche del modello P4.
TELAIO
Telaio Tipo 593/603. Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del
telaio per i nuovi putoni del motore
Tipo 237."
"330 P3/P4 (1967)
Chassis n. 0846
64
Transformation of a P3 model according to the characteristics of the P4
model.
Chassis
Type 593/603. Transformation of the tubular part at the rear of the chassis
for new Type 237 [P4] engine mountings."
Glickenhaus says: This transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is clearly visible on my chassis and doesn't exist
on 0900, 0900a, or 0856 as they are built to the 1967 P4 chassis blueprints. By comparing
my chassis with P3 0844, one can see how this transformation from P3 to P4 was done."
No, James, the above transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is NOT clearly visible in your chassis and I will explain why:
Recently I have been communicating with Christian Huet, the highly regarded French Ferrari writer who is the author of the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" above which is cited in JG's pdf document and other places as proof that his chassis is the original and authentic 0846. Please note that James Glickenhaus does not give credit to Christian Huet or his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P as the source of information that he has copied and published in his 0846 document.
Regarding the engine mountings of the original and real 0846 Christian Huet stated in writing (in French which was translated):
"I have found the notebook for my books about Ferrari, where I wrote my questions and Mauro Forghieri's replies. Concerning 0846, the modification of the P3 type 593 chassis, into a P4 type 603 required the total replacement of the rear of the chassis, which was then, absolutely identical to those of the P4s type 603."
After looking at the pictures from his 0846 document of the engine mountings on James Glickenhaus's chassis, Christian Huet stated the following:
"Concerning the photos showing the engine mounting of the P4 motor on "the so-called 0846", I deduce that it's a "DIY job" without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari, which I have studied/known for many years."
I have the written permission of Christian Huet to share his information.
Edited by Elex on Saturday 25th April 22:30
Elex said:
NEWS FROM CHRISTIAN HUET - AUTHOR OF THE "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" PUBLISHED IN JAMES GLICKENHAUS'S 0846 DOCUMENT.
The following is from pages 63 and 64 of James Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
Glickenhaus says: "I thought about that and recently noticed something.
The following is taken from the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" of "330 P3/P4 Chassis n.
0846" The only car in all the Technical Data Sheets labeled "330 P3/P4"
" -330 P3/P4 -
SCHEDA TECNICA" (TECHNICAL DATA SHEET)
330 P3/P4 (1967)
Telaio N 0846
Trasformazione di un modello P3 secondo le caratteristiche del modello P4.
TELAIO
Telaio Tipo 593/603. Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del
telaio per i nuovi putoni del motore
Tipo 237."
"330 P3/P4 (1967)
Chassis n. 0846
64
Transformation of a P3 model according to the characteristics of the P4
model.
Chassis
Type 593/603. Transformation of the tubular part at the rear of the chassis
for new Type 237 [P4] engine mountings."
Glickenhaus says: This transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is clearly visible on my chassis and doesn't exist
on 0900, 0900a, or 0856 as they are built to the 1967 P4 chassis blueprints. By comparing
my chassis with P3 0844, one can see how this transformation from P3 to P4 was done."
No, James, the above transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is NOT clearly visible in your chassis and I will explain why:
Recently I have been communicating with Christian Huet, the highly regarded French Ferrari writer who is the author of the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" above which is cited in JG's pdf document and other places as proof that his chassis is the original and authentic 0846. Please note that James Glickenhaus does not give credit to Christian Huet or his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P as the source of information that he has copied and published in his 0846 document.
Regarding the engine mountings of the original and real 0846 Christian Huet stated in writing (in French which was translated):
"I have found the notebook for my books about Ferrari, where I wrote my questions and Mauro Forghieri's replies. Concerning 0846, the modification of the P3 type 593 chassis, into a P4 type 603 required the total replacement of the rear of the chassis, which was then, absolutely identical to those of the P4s type 603."
After looking at the pictures from his 0846 document of the engine mountings on James Glickenhaus's chassis, Christian Huet stated the following:
"Concerning the photos showing the engine mounting of the P4 motor on "the so-called 0846", I deduce that it's a "DIY job" without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari, which I have studied/known for many years."
I have the written permission of Christian Huet to share his information.
So, here we have it. Proof from the author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECNICA), Christian Huet, that the rear of the chassis on the real, original 0846 was totally replaced and was absolutely identical to the P4s when it was modified from a P3 type 593 to P4 type 603. The following is from pages 63 and 64 of James Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
Glickenhaus says: "I thought about that and recently noticed something.
The following is taken from the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" of "330 P3/P4 Chassis n.
0846" The only car in all the Technical Data Sheets labeled "330 P3/P4"
" -330 P3/P4 -
SCHEDA TECNICA" (TECHNICAL DATA SHEET)
330 P3/P4 (1967)
Telaio N 0846
Trasformazione di un modello P3 secondo le caratteristiche del modello P4.
TELAIO
Telaio Tipo 593/603. Trasformazione della parte posteriore tubolare del
telaio per i nuovi putoni del motore
Tipo 237."
"330 P3/P4 (1967)
Chassis n. 0846
64
Transformation of a P3 model according to the characteristics of the P4
model.
Chassis
Type 593/603. Transformation of the tubular part at the rear of the chassis
for new Type 237 [P4] engine mountings."
Glickenhaus says: This transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is clearly visible on my chassis and doesn't exist
on 0900, 0900a, or 0856 as they are built to the 1967 P4 chassis blueprints. By comparing
my chassis with P3 0844, one can see how this transformation from P3 to P4 was done."
No, James, the above transformation of 593/603 P3 to P4 is NOT clearly visible in your chassis and I will explain why:
Recently I have been communicating with Christian Huet, the highly regarded French Ferrari writer who is the author of the "TECHNICAL DATA SHEET" above which is cited in JG's pdf document and other places as proof that his chassis is the original and authentic 0846. Please note that James Glickenhaus does not give credit to Christian Huet or his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P as the source of information that he has copied and published in his 0846 document.
Regarding the engine mountings of the original and real 0846 Christian Huet stated in writing (in French which was translated):
"I have found the notebook for my books about Ferrari, where I wrote my questions and Mauro Forghieri's replies. Concerning 0846, the modification of the P3 type 593 chassis, into a P4 type 603 required the total replacement of the rear of the chassis, which was then, absolutely identical to those of the P4s type 603."
After looking at the pictures from his 0846 document of the engine mountings on James Glickenhaus's chassis, Christian Huet stated the following:
"Concerning the photos showing the engine mounting of the P4 motor on "the so-called 0846", I deduce that it's a "DIY job" without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari, which I have studied/known for many years."
I have the written permission of Christian Huet to share his information.
There were no vestigial P3 engine mountings on the chassis of the original P3/4 0846.
There were no bolt on adaptors on the original P3/4 0846 to make the P4 engine fit.
The P4 (or 312 F1) engine mounting on the Glickenhaus "so called 0846" chassis is a "DIY" job without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari.
James must now finally concede that he has misinterpreted and misquoted the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECNICA) cited in his 0846 pdf document which actually proves that his chassis is NOT the original 0846.
Over to you, James????
Edited by Elex on Monday 27th April 06:42
SHutchinson said:
Surely this revelation puts Christian Huet at loggerheads with MF who said the rear part of the chassis was modified, not entirely replaced. I'm not bothered either way but even this doesn't seem like proof either side is 100% correct.
It does not put CH at loggerheads with MF. If you think about it Ing. Mauro Forghieri was the "designer" so from a "design" point the rear of the chassis would only have to be modified in minor detail to accommodate the new and differing P4 mounting coordinates on the side of the P4 engine which then would have required the replacement of the rear tubes. The TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) was written after Christian Huet consulted Mauro Forghieri and Gianni Rogliatti. MF in his original statement looked at the photos of the JG engine mountings and effectively said Ferrari would not have done it that way. That’s because Ferrari replaced all the rear chassis with a P4 rear chassis.
Edited by Elex on Thursday 30th April 09:33
Napolis said:
Exactly.
You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:
"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.
The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
http://www.cavallino.com/2014/04/01/ferraris-at-th...
Source: Keith Bluemel
Ferrari Entry at the
Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, March 8, 2014
Compiled by Keith Bluemel
Best of Class FP:
410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee
Best of Class FP1:
275 GTB/4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz
Best of Class FR:
340 MM Vignale Spyder 0324 AM M. Leventhal
Best of Class Cars of Zagato Design:
250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington
Amelia Awards Class FP:
212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson
400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray
Amelia Awards Class FP1:
365 GTB/4 13231 J. & S. Campion
365 GTB/4 NART Spyder 14299 J. Barrett
Amelia Awards Class FR:
166 Spyder Corsa 016 I Revs Institute
312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger
The Gil Nickel/Far Niente Award (Car in which to tour the Nappa Valley):
212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.
The McIntosh Trophy (For the best sound on the field):
335 S Spyder 0764 A. Mohringer
Class FP:
212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson
212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.
250 GT Boano Coupe 0447 GT D. Nicotra
410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee
400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray
250 GT Lusso 5211 GT J. Dobbs
Class FP1:
330 GT 2+2 Drogo 7979 Goodman Collection
275 GTS (Black Hardtop) 07767 D. & S. Nelson
275 GTB4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz
275 GTB4 10803 P. Klutt
275 GTB4 10533 J. Capasso
365 GT 2+2 NART Spider 12611 Goodman Collection
365 GTB4 NART Spider 14299 J. Barrett
365 GTB4 13231 J. & S. Campion
Class FR:
166 Spider Corsa 016 I Collier Collection
340 MM Vignale Spider 0324 AM M. Leventhal
335 S Spider 0764 A. Mohringer
330 P3/4 0846 J. Glickenhaus
312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger
Class Z:
250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington
Ferrari North America Display
250 GT Cabriolet (Hardtop) 2473 GT F. Ricciardelli
FF 197977
Auctions America Display:
365 GTB/4 16393
Entrance Area Display:
212 Export Touring Berlinetta 0088 E
RM Auction:
250 GT S2 Cabriolet 2093 GT Lot # 162
365 GTB4 15569 Lot # 176
365 GTC4 15859 Lot # 112
Dino 246 GTS 08286 Lot # 127
512 BBi 44881 Lot # 145
512TR 98634 Lot # 178
360 Challenge 123439 Lot # 106
Gooding & Company Auction:
250 Europa GT 0409 GT Lot # 62
365 GTB/4 15117 Lot # 74
365 GTB/4 15741 Lot # 34
Dino 206 GT 00378 Lot # 70
Dino 246 GT 04970 Lot # 45
Dino 246 GTS 08070 Lot # 5
132
As I'm crossing the bridge and won't be back this way again I leave you with some light entertainment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw
You are a liar. Mauro Forghieri did not say "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." There was no total backtracking. His alleged, unauthenticated statement to you below underlined that the modifications on your chassis were not his work proving your chassis is NOT 0846. You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:
"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.
The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
http://www.cavallino.com/2014/04/01/ferraris-at-th...
Source: Keith Bluemel
Ferrari Entry at the
Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance, March 8, 2014
Compiled by Keith Bluemel
Best of Class FP:
410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee
Best of Class FP1:
275 GTB/4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz
Best of Class FR:
340 MM Vignale Spyder 0324 AM M. Leventhal
Best of Class Cars of Zagato Design:
250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington
Amelia Awards Class FP:
212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson
400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray
Amelia Awards Class FP1:
365 GTB/4 13231 J. & S. Campion
365 GTB/4 NART Spyder 14299 J. Barrett
Amelia Awards Class FR:
166 Spyder Corsa 016 I Revs Institute
312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger
The Gil Nickel/Far Niente Award (Car in which to tour the Nappa Valley):
212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.
The McIntosh Trophy (For the best sound on the field):
335 S Spyder 0764 A. Mohringer
Class FP:
212 Inter Ghia Coupe 0145 E D. Nelson
212 Inter Vignale Coupe 0213 EL R. Junca de la Vega Jr.
250 GT Boano Coupe 0447 GT D. Nicotra
410 SA Superfast 0483 SA B. & A. Brockington Lee
400 Superamerica 5115 SA D. & C. Murray
250 GT Lusso 5211 GT J. Dobbs
Class FP1:
330 GT 2+2 Drogo 7979 Goodman Collection
275 GTS (Black Hardtop) 07767 D. & S. Nelson
275 GTB4 (Alloy) 09501 G. & S. Schaevitz
275 GTB4 10803 P. Klutt
275 GTB4 10533 J. Capasso
365 GT 2+2 NART Spider 12611 Goodman Collection
365 GTB4 NART Spider 14299 J. Barrett
365 GTB4 13231 J. & S. Campion
Class FR:
166 Spider Corsa 016 I Collier Collection
340 MM Vignale Spider 0324 AM M. Leventhal
335 S Spider 0764 A. Mohringer
330 P3/4 0846 J. Glickenhaus
312 P(B) 0894 J. Jaeger
Class Z:
250 GT LWB Zagato Coupe 0665 GT L. Herrington
Ferrari North America Display
250 GT Cabriolet (Hardtop) 2473 GT F. Ricciardelli
FF 197977
Auctions America Display:
365 GTB/4 16393
Entrance Area Display:
212 Export Touring Berlinetta 0088 E
RM Auction:
250 GT S2 Cabriolet 2093 GT Lot # 162
365 GTB4 15569 Lot # 176
365 GTC4 15859 Lot # 112
Dino 246 GTS 08286 Lot # 127
512 BBi 44881 Lot # 145
512TR 98634 Lot # 178
360 Challenge 123439 Lot # 106
Gooding & Company Auction:
250 Europa GT 0409 GT Lot # 62
365 GTB/4 15117 Lot # 74
365 GTB/4 15741 Lot # 34
Dino 206 GT 00378 Lot # 70
Dino 246 GT 04970 Lot # 45
Dino 246 GTS 08070 Lot # 5
132
As I'm crossing the bridge and won't be back this way again I leave you with some light entertainment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw
"I cannot of course rule out that thos modifications have been carried out elsewhere,perhaps even by another Ferrari departement."
Marcel and Keith reporting that 0846 owned by you has attended several concours merely means that your car is legally 0846 which you now claim it is by a legal loophole called estoppel. However that does not mean your car is the original Ferrari 0846 that won Daytona in 1967 etc. Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel have never made any public statement that your chassis is the original Ferrari 0846. Prove me wrong.
Christian Huet published the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) 20 years ago from written questions and replies he received from Ing. Mauro Forghieri at or BEFORE that time. There would have been no question surrounding MF's memory at that point in his life. Christian Huet also met with Mauro Forghieri where he questioned him on things including 0846 at or BEFORE the time of publication.
That you say that Christian Huet has written a falsehood and misinformation regarding the 603 R gearbox which is included in the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) but you have cited this very same TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) in your 0846 pdf document and other places as proof that your chassis is the original 0846 is absolutely pathetic. You have also totally misquoted the CH's TECHNICAL DATA SHEET saying it states that the P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. It does not say that. It says the P3 wheelbase was 2.40 metres. All this and you do not even give credit to Christian Huet for copying the information from his Cavalleria book Ferrari 330 P3/412P.
Both the author of the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) and Mauro Forghieri, the designer of the original 0846, after looking over YOUR pictures of the engine mountings on your chassis have said 0846's P3/4 engine mountings were not done that way. It's a "DIY job" I'm afraid. You have no case. Your evidence has been dismissed. Case closed.
Oh, just editing my post to ask what you are now going to do about the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET (SCHEDA TECHNICA) information published in your 0846 pdf document now that its relevance to your car has been zeroed by both its author and the actual Ferrari designer of the original 0846 consulted in its writing?????
Edited by Elex on Tuesday 28th April 05:16
Napolis said:
Exactly.
You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:
"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.
The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
You have not only lied about Ing. Forghieri saying "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." you also go on to attack the man which is absolutely disgusting. I have no knowledge of the supercar project etc but you have totally forgotten about Ing. Forghieri's massive positive contribution to the history of Ferrari as Chief Technical Director of Ferrari's Racing Department between 1961 and 1985. That's it, James, you can't defeat the argument so attack the man who has given so much to Ferrari. You should be ashamed of yourself!!!You'd think this Troll would realize that when Mauro began by stating:
"Chris was hit by a flying wheel" when nothing remotely like than ever happened that Mauro's recollection of what happened 48 years ago wasn't exactly up to par. Coupled with his total backtracking on cross examination when he admitted: "the modification of the chassis with vestigial mounts etc." "of course" could have been done by Ferrari." and his recent debacle failing to restore the 8C1.5L F1 car he designed 51 years ago, "Disaster" was the word FS used, the results of the recent 512 Pinin consult, and his aborted new supercar project what you easily deduced is the sad state of MF's current affairs.
The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. Back to Huet's beyond stupid comments. Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks. You ( according to Huet) cut off the entire rear end of the chassis? Including the north/south one piece load bearing chassis tubes and what? butt weld an entire new rear section on to the now cut north/south load bearing tubes? Butt weld tubes that give the chassis it's structure and carry oil and water and would flex at the butt welds causing the chassis to destroy itself in short order??? Or you simply weld two additional motor mounts to accept the new motor to the existing chassis and two bushings and you're good to go with no additional work? Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had. I could go on but what's the point? Trolls gotta Troll. Garbage into Troll garbage out of Troll. If anyone wants to see 0846 for themselves she's often at a major concourse or Historic event. I'll be racing at the N24, then on to Villa d'Este, PF's 85Th, Goodwood FOS, Pebble Week, Greenwich, Road and Track Concours in the Park. If you're at any of those do say hello and have a look for your self at anything you want to.
The 603R gearbox information that Christian Huet published 20 years ago is not misinformation and totally false at all. I have it in writing in a 2013 email from a very high ranking official of Ferrari Classiche that the 603R gearbox was used in 0858 when it was in 330 P4 configuration as well as 350 Can Am. You really are clutching at straws now. There is hardly any difference between tipo nomenclatures 603 and 603R anyway. I have seen "603" stamped on the gearbox of P3/412P 0848 pictured in Christian Huet's Cavalleria book. That doesn't mean the factory does not refer to it as 603R.
Regarding your comment "Lets see, it's December 66. You need to mule 0846 to fit a new P4 engine and have her at Daytona for testing in a few weeks." you have yet again got your facts wrong. 0846 was modified between the months of June and November, 1966, some 5 months before being sent to Daytona at the very end of November 1966 for testing for the race proper in February, 1967. There was plenty of time to carry out the modifications properly. What has been done to your chassis would have been done in the "few weeks" - or less - time scale that you describe as it is a ""DIY" job without any relationship to the original 0846 and without any relationship with the work practices of Ferrari."
Ing. Forghieri has stated in writing regarding the engine mountings on your chassis: "Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount." That solution simply does not work in using the engine block as a supporting part of the chassis structure which it was designed to do.
Regarding your extremely disrespectful and unfeeling comment: "Even MF's mind isn't too far gone to remember those pesky P3 "vestigial motor mounts" which 0846 originally had." you are now believing your own lies. Ing. Forghieri has said nothing whatsoever about remembering those P3 vestigial motor mounts which 0846 originally had. 0846 when modified to P3/4 did not have vestigial P3 mounts with bolt on adaptors. The tubes containing the differing P3 engine mount positions at the rear of the chassis were removed and correct P4 tubing containing correctly coordinated P4 tipo 237 engine mountings were installed. The rear part of the chassis was identical to a P4. Please, please prove me wrong.
Edited by Elex on Thursday 7th May 22:34
Napolis said:
"Ferrari tipo 603R was installed. The same information applies to 412 P cars 0850 and 0854"
This Troll parroting Huet.
My response:
"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "
The Troll responded:
"The 603R gearbox information that Christian Huet published 20 years ago is not misinformation and totally false at all. I have it in writing in a 2013 email from a very high ranking official of Ferrari Classiche that the 603R gearbox was used in 0858 when it was in P4 configuration as well as 350 Can Am."
0854 is not 0858. It is a TOTALLY different car, model,tipo and chassis number. It is and has always been a 412P. What the gearbox in 350 Can Am 0858 may or may not be has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on 0854.
My answer remains the same:
"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw
You have totally lost the plot.This Troll parroting Huet.
My response:
"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "
The Troll responded:
"The 603R gearbox information that Christian Huet published 20 years ago is not misinformation and totally false at all. I have it in writing in a 2013 email from a very high ranking official of Ferrari Classiche that the 603R gearbox was used in 0858 when it was in P4 configuration as well as 350 Can Am."
0854 is not 0858. It is a TOTALLY different car, model,tipo and chassis number. It is and has always been a 412P. What the gearbox in 350 Can Am 0858 may or may not be has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on 0854.
My answer remains the same:
"The real ultra stupidity of this trolls jumping the shark was his latest Huet comments. Firstly the misinformation that Huet published that this troll loves to parrot "Type 603R gearbox" besides being totally false is easily seen to be totally not true with one's own naked eyes by anyone who's ever looked at 0854's gearbox as real experts like Marcel Massini and Keith Bluemel who not only have looked at 0846 as it exists today but have also after looking at 0846 as currently owned by me recently clearly reported in writing that 0846 owned by me has attended several top concours. Should anyone want to confirm the falsehood of "603 R" for themselves all they have to do is to have a look this summer during Pebble Car Week. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw
Here's a post written by your very self on FChat.
Edited by Elex on Tuesday 5th May 00:31
Jim, in your 0846 pdf, you have made things up as you go along to fit your chassis.
You have said that the (SCHEDA TECHNICA) TECHNICAL DATA SHEET states that the wheelbase of the P3 was 2412mm and you try and make details of the same TECHNICAL DATA SHEET fit your chassis by quoting details of the 412P cars. See screen shot of page 70 of your 0846 pdf below. In this instance the actual quotation of wheelbase details of the 412P cars really does have NO BEARING on P3/4 0846 ever having a 2412mm wheelbase. The reason is that the wheelbase length of the P3/412P and 412P cars including 0854 is quoted when they had the ZF 5DS gearbox installed. 0846 never had a ZF 5DS gearbox in it.
It is a lie that the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET states that the P3 had a 2412mm wheelbase. It states the P3 wheelbase as 2.40 metres. You have stated many times that the original P3 mountings (or P3 vestigial mounts as you call them) on your chassis make for a wheelbase of 2412mm. I am afraid, Jim that this is actually more proof that your chassis is neither 0846 or was even originally a P3. Again, please prove me wrong.
Below is a screenshot of page 70 of Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
You have said that the (SCHEDA TECHNICA) TECHNICAL DATA SHEET states that the wheelbase of the P3 was 2412mm and you try and make details of the same TECHNICAL DATA SHEET fit your chassis by quoting details of the 412P cars. See screen shot of page 70 of your 0846 pdf below. In this instance the actual quotation of wheelbase details of the 412P cars really does have NO BEARING on P3/4 0846 ever having a 2412mm wheelbase. The reason is that the wheelbase length of the P3/412P and 412P cars including 0854 is quoted when they had the ZF 5DS gearbox installed. 0846 never had a ZF 5DS gearbox in it.
It is a lie that the TECHNICAL DATA SHEET states that the P3 had a 2412mm wheelbase. It states the P3 wheelbase as 2.40 metres. You have stated many times that the original P3 mountings (or P3 vestigial mounts as you call them) on your chassis make for a wheelbase of 2412mm. I am afraid, Jim that this is actually more proof that your chassis is neither 0846 or was even originally a P3. Again, please prove me wrong.
Below is a screenshot of page 70 of Glickenhaus's 0846 pdf document.
Edited by Elex on Monday 11th May 10:23
Here are scanned copies of the actual Official Ferrari Notiziario Technical Data Sheets/Documents for the 330 P3 and 330 P4 issued by the Ferrari Factory at the Ferrari Press Conferences at the introduction of both cars in 1966 and 1967. This is Factory proof that the P3 and P4 wheelbase lengths (PASSO) were both exactly the same at 2400mm. The P3 wheelbase was not 2412mm and P4 wheelbase was not shortened P3 v. P4 as Jim states. He is absolutely wrong that the P3 wheelbase was 2412mm and he is absolutely wrong that the Technical Data Sheets, both by the Factory and Christian Huet, state the P3 wheelbase was 2412mm. That Jim's chassis wheelbase with a P3/412P engine is 2412mm proves it is not 0846. 0846 was the actual car presented to the Press in February, 1966 and stated by Ferrari as having a 2400mm wheelbase.
The only cars from this group that had a 2412mm wheelbase were the P3/412P (0844, 0848) and 412P (0850, 0854) cars that temporarily got the ZF 5DS gearbox to replace the unreliable tipo 593 as the new Ferrari gearboxes were not available in sufficient numbers. This adaptation necessitated changing the rear part of the chassis and the lengthening of the wheelbase from 2.400m to 2.412m. 0846 was not one of those cars as it went from using the tipo 593 to 603R gearbox. When the P3/412P and 412P cars eventually received the Ferrari 603R gearbox, all by Le Mans '67, the wheelbase reverted back to the original 2400mm.
The only cars from this group that had a 2412mm wheelbase were the P3/412P (0844, 0848) and 412P (0850, 0854) cars that temporarily got the ZF 5DS gearbox to replace the unreliable tipo 593 as the new Ferrari gearboxes were not available in sufficient numbers. This adaptation necessitated changing the rear part of the chassis and the lengthening of the wheelbase from 2.400m to 2.412m. 0846 was not one of those cars as it went from using the tipo 593 to 603R gearbox. When the P3/412P and 412P cars eventually received the Ferrari 603R gearbox, all by Le Mans '67, the wheelbase reverted back to the original 2400mm.
Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 6th October 10:42
The following is an email I sent to Ing. Mauro Forghieri after reading the signed letter from him posted a few days ago, his response, my response to that and his further reply:
16th March, 2016.
FAO: Ing. Mauro Forghieri.
From: Steven Robertson.
Dear Ing. Forghieri,
Re: Ferrari 330 P3/4 0846.
I hope this message finds you well?
Some time back you very kindly answered some questions I had regarding a chassis whose owner, James Glickenhaus, claimed that it is that of the 1967 Daytona winner, 330 P3/4 0846. You examined some pictures of the engine mountings of this chassis and concluded the following in quotation marks.
"Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount. Your chassis is a P3 arranged by some body to accept the P4 engine and the correct wheelbase 2400."
Naturally, from your above reply, I and many others in the Ferrari community, concluded that the chassis owned by Mr Glickenhaus could not be that of the original 0846 that won Daytona in 1967. However a copy of a letter, which is attached to this email, from you dated the 14th of March, 2016 addressed to Mr Glickenhaus has today been posted on the web site www.ferrarichat.com in which you confirm that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is that of the original 0846. Please see the attached letter. Is this true, Ing. Forghieri?
I, and many others, would greatly appreciate your reply very much indeed. We look forward to hearing from you and I thank you in advance for your attention.
With the utmost respect,
Kind regards,
Steven Robertson.
The following is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 17th March, 2016:
Dear Mr Robertson
Yes this is the letter I sign after a meeting
With Mr Glickenhaus. I confirm also the letter to you after I have seen the way in wich somebody have modified in the engine bay the chassis ( the single
photo from you)
As you see in the letter to Mr Glickenhaus I wrote that i reconize the chassis of the car modified in December 66 but I did not say that it was the 0846 car.This do not exist any more
because of the modification done by somebody after the Le Man's 67 and not from my dpt as per your photo.
I told this also to Mr Glickenhaus and confirmed also to him by some statement by Ferrari.He have a P4 only.
Best Regards
Forghieri
I then replied to the above on the 17th of March, 2016 as follows:
Dear Ing. Forghieri.
Thank you very much indeed for your reply. It is very much appreciated and I am extremely grateful. However, I am now very confused. In your letter to Mr Glickenhaus you confirm that you modified Mr Glickenhaus's actual chassis and that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual chassis that won the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona. Please see your wording below in quotation marks:
"Dear James,
After studying the P3/P4 Chassis in the car owned today by you I confirm that this is the original P3 Chassis that I modified in December 1966 to accept a P4 engine and that this original modified chassis then went on to win The 1967 24 Hours Of Daytona.
- Ing. Mauro Forghieri"
In your letter to me some time ago you confirmed that the Ferrari Factory would never have accepted the solution on Mr Glickenhaus's chassis to bolt the chassis to the engine but you confirm above that you did modifify his actual chassis and that his chassis is the Daytona winner. This is firstly saying you did not modify it in your letter to me but you are saying you did modify it in your letter to Mr Glickenhaus. History proves chassis number 0846 was the 1967 Daytona winner. You say in your reply to me that chassis number 0846 does not exist any more so please could you explain how Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner as the 1967 Daytona winner was 0846. You also stated that you didn't say Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is 0846 but if his chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner then it must be 0846? Is this the case? Is your letter to Mr Glickenhaus being interpreted correctly?
I and many others in the Ferrari community would be extremely grateful to you, Ing. Forghieri if you would be kind enough to clarify your statements and let us know if Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846. Many people are now reading your letter and taking it as proof that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846.
We look forward very much to your reply and I thank you in advance for your attention.
With the utmost respect,
Kind regards,
Steven Robertson.
Below is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 18th of March, 2016:
My Dear Mr.Robertson
I realize that in USA is a fight also for vintage car.The letter to Mr
Glickenhaus is allready around the world.
I will try to explain what, I was believing clear:
1) THE car is a P4 but without number of factory.As per many statement.
2)I reconize that the front end was the one i modify
slighly.The"original"was prepared for the test in december at Daytona
test and the winner at 24 h.I did not say the 0846 for the present chassi.
3)If it is true that the car was purchased by an englisch driver the only
number useful can be ,if i remember well the story,0003.Can somebody
believe this?
Somebody try to repair the distorced chassi with the poor arrangement your
photo schow to me.So this was done after LE Mans.
I hope that nobody can define in future the Mr Glickenhaus P4 with the 0846,
this number do not exist anymore for every Ferrari expert.
B.Regards
Forghieri
16th March, 2016.
FAO: Ing. Mauro Forghieri.
From: Steven Robertson.
Dear Ing. Forghieri,
Re: Ferrari 330 P3/4 0846.
I hope this message finds you well?
Some time back you very kindly answered some questions I had regarding a chassis whose owner, James Glickenhaus, claimed that it is that of the 1967 Daytona winner, 330 P3/4 0846. You examined some pictures of the engine mountings of this chassis and concluded the following in quotation marks.
"Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount. Your chassis is a P3 arranged by some body to accept the P4 engine and the correct wheelbase 2400."
Naturally, from your above reply, I and many others in the Ferrari community, concluded that the chassis owned by Mr Glickenhaus could not be that of the original 0846 that won Daytona in 1967. However a copy of a letter, which is attached to this email, from you dated the 14th of March, 2016 addressed to Mr Glickenhaus has today been posted on the web site www.ferrarichat.com in which you confirm that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is that of the original 0846. Please see the attached letter. Is this true, Ing. Forghieri?
I, and many others, would greatly appreciate your reply very much indeed. We look forward to hearing from you and I thank you in advance for your attention.
With the utmost respect,
Kind regards,
Steven Robertson.
The following is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 17th March, 2016:
Dear Mr Robertson
Yes this is the letter I sign after a meeting
With Mr Glickenhaus. I confirm also the letter to you after I have seen the way in wich somebody have modified in the engine bay the chassis ( the single
photo from you)
As you see in the letter to Mr Glickenhaus I wrote that i reconize the chassis of the car modified in December 66 but I did not say that it was the 0846 car.This do not exist any more
because of the modification done by somebody after the Le Man's 67 and not from my dpt as per your photo.
I told this also to Mr Glickenhaus and confirmed also to him by some statement by Ferrari.He have a P4 only.
Best Regards
Forghieri
I then replied to the above on the 17th of March, 2016 as follows:
Dear Ing. Forghieri.
Thank you very much indeed for your reply. It is very much appreciated and I am extremely grateful. However, I am now very confused. In your letter to Mr Glickenhaus you confirm that you modified Mr Glickenhaus's actual chassis and that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual chassis that won the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona. Please see your wording below in quotation marks:
"Dear James,
After studying the P3/P4 Chassis in the car owned today by you I confirm that this is the original P3 Chassis that I modified in December 1966 to accept a P4 engine and that this original modified chassis then went on to win The 1967 24 Hours Of Daytona.
- Ing. Mauro Forghieri"
In your letter to me some time ago you confirmed that the Ferrari Factory would never have accepted the solution on Mr Glickenhaus's chassis to bolt the chassis to the engine but you confirm above that you did modifify his actual chassis and that his chassis is the Daytona winner. This is firstly saying you did not modify it in your letter to me but you are saying you did modify it in your letter to Mr Glickenhaus. History proves chassis number 0846 was the 1967 Daytona winner. You say in your reply to me that chassis number 0846 does not exist any more so please could you explain how Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner as the 1967 Daytona winner was 0846. You also stated that you didn't say Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is 0846 but if his chassis is the 1967 Daytona winner then it must be 0846? Is this the case? Is your letter to Mr Glickenhaus being interpreted correctly?
I and many others in the Ferrari community would be extremely grateful to you, Ing. Forghieri if you would be kind enough to clarify your statements and let us know if Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846. Many people are now reading your letter and taking it as proof that Mr Glickenhaus's chassis is the actual 1967 Daytona winner, chassis number 0846.
We look forward very much to your reply and I thank you in advance for your attention.
With the utmost respect,
Kind regards,
Steven Robertson.
Below is Ing. Forghieri's reply on the 18th of March, 2016:
My Dear Mr.Robertson
I realize that in USA is a fight also for vintage car.The letter to Mr
Glickenhaus is allready around the world.
I will try to explain what, I was believing clear:
1) THE car is a P4 but without number of factory.As per many statement.
2)I reconize that the front end was the one i modify
slighly.The"original"was prepared for the test in december at Daytona
test and the winner at 24 h.I did not say the 0846 for the present chassi.
3)If it is true that the car was purchased by an englisch driver the only
number useful can be ,if i remember well the story,0003.Can somebody
believe this?
Somebody try to repair the distorced chassi with the poor arrangement your
photo schow to me.So this was done after LE Mans.
I hope that nobody can define in future the Mr Glickenhaus P4 with the 0846,
this number do not exist anymore for every Ferrari expert.
B.Regards
Forghieri
Since my last post in this thread I have been corresponding with Ing. Forghieri. He had thought he identified Mr Glickenhaus's car as the car he took to Daytona for testing and modification in 1966 and therefore the 1967 Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler. He had only glanced at it as a tourist at Amelia Island. He had not subjected the car to a technical analysis and he had not thoroughly examined the chassis. Mr Glickenhaus has sent him no documentation. Over the last weeks he has done quite a bit of research and has spoken to people in Modena about Tom Meade, Mike Parkes, David Piper and Enzo Ferrari on the position of the P4 drawings etc.
After speaking to people regarding the above characters he thought it possible that Tom Meade had built the chassis along with chassis builders from Modena. Ing. Forghieri thought that only the front part of the chassis was from the "famous" P3 and could not say what percentage of the front part with the rear part being from another P3, but he didn't know the origin of it. That said, he considered the car to be a replica as Ferrari had deleted the number 0846 and the Glickenhaus chassis has no number or the number 0003. He said that anyone can build a P4 but they will never be able to chose a number already cancelled by "mother" Ferrari.
As Ing. Forghieri had said he had identified the car as the Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler, I sent him pictures of the front of the chassis of Mr Glickenhaus's car. After looking at the pictures he replied that this was not the car he took to Daytona for testing. It is therefore not the 1967 Daytona winner. Ing. Forghieri stated that he is in full agreement with Christian Huet about the chassis, who he had spoken to in the past.
I have since sent Ing. Forghieri some other pictures of the rear of the chassis as I have noticed some differences, that have not been discussed before, in its structure/build that I thought differed from that of a genuine P3 or 412P chassis. He has replied in writing that the rear of the chassis has been made new. The differences I identified would not have been made by the chassis builders that made the original Ferrari P3 and P4 chassis and that the biggest differences are at the front of the chassis from a genuine one. Ing. Forghieri has therefore concluded that Mr Glickenhaus's car/chassisis is not original P4.
So here we have it:The Glickenhaus car does not contain parts of the original chassis of 0846 and and does not contain the chassis that was modified by Mauro Forghieri that went on to win the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.
After speaking to people regarding the above characters he thought it possible that Tom Meade had built the chassis along with chassis builders from Modena. Ing. Forghieri thought that only the front part of the chassis was from the "famous" P3 and could not say what percentage of the front part with the rear part being from another P3, but he didn't know the origin of it. That said, he considered the car to be a replica as Ferrari had deleted the number 0846 and the Glickenhaus chassis has no number or the number 0003. He said that anyone can build a P4 but they will never be able to chose a number already cancelled by "mother" Ferrari.
As Ing. Forghieri had said he had identified the car as the Daytona winner by the positioning of the oil cooler, I sent him pictures of the front of the chassis of Mr Glickenhaus's car. After looking at the pictures he replied that this was not the car he took to Daytona for testing. It is therefore not the 1967 Daytona winner. Ing. Forghieri stated that he is in full agreement with Christian Huet about the chassis, who he had spoken to in the past.
I have since sent Ing. Forghieri some other pictures of the rear of the chassis as I have noticed some differences, that have not been discussed before, in its structure/build that I thought differed from that of a genuine P3 or 412P chassis. He has replied in writing that the rear of the chassis has been made new. The differences I identified would not have been made by the chassis builders that made the original Ferrari P3 and P4 chassis and that the biggest differences are at the front of the chassis from a genuine one. Ing. Forghieri has therefore concluded that Mr Glickenhaus's car/chassisis is not original P4.
So here we have it:The Glickenhaus car does not contain parts of the original chassis of 0846 and and does not contain the chassis that was modified by Mauro Forghieri that went on to win the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona.
4rephill said:
He seems to get some sort of obsessive pleasure in hounding Napolis at every opportunity, determined to prove to World somehow that Napolis is some sort of evil, lying conman when it comes to his car collection and make his life a misery! (He did exactly the same thing on Ferrarichat.com [where there was a suggestion of a hidden agenda being involved] ) - It's quite sad really!
Why Napolis has continued to have any interaction with him whatsoever is beyond Me in all honesty - I'd have ignored him years ago and just got on and enjoyed My car collection if I were Napolis, because life's just too short for this s
t!
You are absolutely wrong. My only interest is in Ferrari History not being distorted. However there is an example of Mr Glickenhaus's lying on the 11th of May about the engine mountings on his chassis in the pic/text attached below.Why Napolis has continued to have any interaction with him whatsoever is beyond Me in all honesty - I'd have ignored him years ago and just got on and enjoyed My car collection if I were Napolis, because life's just too short for this s
t!
Just bringing this thread up to date for those interested. Proof has now been found in the form of photographs by the noted photo journalist Karl Ludvigsen of the real Ferrari P3/P4 0846 at Daytona in 1967 that it had the engine mountings properly converted to have perfect engine mounts to fit the P4 engine. The real 0846 did not retain its P3 engine mounts, or "vestigial P3 engine mountings" as Mr Glickenhaus likes to call them, when it was converted to P4 as he maintains. Mr Glickenhaus's car does not even have P3 engine mounts. 
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