Forghieri speaks on the Glickenhaus car

[miurasv]

Compare the right forward side engine mounting on the Glickenhaus car above with the real 0846 pictured at Daytona 1967. They are clearly not the same. The captions on the above picture are Mr Glickenhaus's disproved explanations of how the engine mountings identify his car as 0846.

[miurasv]

You can see that the mount on the real 0846 pictured at Daytona 1967 is the same as the one on P4 0858 with the large bolt hole.

[miurasv]

In this picture, which is Mr Glickenhaus's own picture from his 0846 on line pdf, you can see his car chassis DP0003 from the back. Please ignore the red circles and arrows in this picture.

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 19th July 18:55

[miurasv]

This picture with the yellow circle and yellow arrows is a blow up of the one in the last post of the left hand side rear engine mount. Within the yellow circle, the arrow pointing down is at the angled bracket to compensate for the engine mounting not lining up with the chassis engine mount. The arrow pointing up is where the angled bracket actually bolts to the engine.

[miurasv]

Compare the pictures above with the one in this post and the one below which are of the real 0846 at Daytona 1967 by noted photo journalist Karl Ludvigsen where the chassis mountings match the engine mountings and slot right in with no need for bolt on adaptors as are on the Glickenhaus chassis.

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 19th July 19:05

[miurasv]

[miurasv]

Above is a picture from Mr Glickenhaus's 0846 on line pdf with his own disproved description of the left side rear engine mount on his "falso P4" replica.

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 19th July 19:16

[miurasv]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Thanks for taking the time to post your evidence OP, I've expressed support before and I'm not entirely sure why some posters continue to berate you.

I remember your support. Thank you. It was very much appreciated then, as it is now.

[miurasv]

Where is there evidence of Ferrari agreeing the number 0846 being assigned to the Glickenhaus car?

Edited by miurasv on Wednesday 20th July 18:36

[miurasv]

Elex said:

Elex said:

Silent1 said:

Elex, what do you want to get out of this?

Let me tell you what I get out of this: I am passionate about the history of Ferrari and it sickens me that that history is being distorted by Mr Glickenhaus claiming that his replica is the original 0846. The link below by Road & Track is just one example where the Piper/Glickenhaus chassis is being stated as 0846 which is of course total BS. If I can inform people of the true facts then I admit to taking pleasure from that.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/ferrari-330...

I have no vested interest. If you had all read this thread properly you will see that I have already answered the question.

simonr100 said:

simonr100 said:

I would like to know what the OP's interest in the car is - does he want to buy it for what he thinks it is rather than what is alleged to be? Is there anything personal going on?

Still waiting............

I've already answered this question in this thread. See above. Nothing has changed.

[miurasv]

simonr100 said:

Ok just wondered, then I think what you are doing is great!

Thank you.

[miurasv]

robm3 said:

What a fascinating thread, truly.

Just to be clear do the recent photos show a chassis without the modification it currently has or just that the engine is located differently?
Not that it 'proves' anything definitely as the modification possibly could have been done after the photos.

I suppose the metallurgy aspect mentioned earlier for other important cars would be one way to gain proof either way.

After spending quite a few hours reading all the threads on different forums I'm inclined to believe the chassis is indeed a replication but it's only my view (and I've certainly been wrong before).

That aside James, the owner, seems like a hell of a guy and a great petrolhead.

The pictures show the chassis had been correctly modified by Ferrari to accept a P4 engine and had the same engine mountings as the other real P4s at Daytona, 1967 and did not contain the less than ideal solution to bolt the chassis to the engine that the Glickenhaus chassis has. Don't forget that Ing. Forghieri, the car's designer, said the following after looking at the pictures of the engine mountings on the Glickenhaus car: "Never the factory could accept the schowed solutions to bolt the chassis to the engine. At the factory was easier to modify in correct way the triangled-tube necessary to have a perfect engine mount."

Edited by miurasv on Monday 1st August 15:22

[miurasv]

After considering information and pictures sent to him of the DP0003 Glickenhaus chassis and cylinder block stampings, Ing. Mauro Forghieri, designer/creator at Ferrari of the real 330 P3/P4 #0846, sent me an email on 10th May, 2016, the content of which, in his words in Italian, is as follows below. Scroll down for English translation:

"Gent.mo Sig. Robertson
Io penso che lei sia il maggiore esperto di P4 esistente.La serie di foto
che mi ha inviato mi hanno fatto enorme piacere, in particolare quella
della 412 s/n854
prima nuda e poi in restauro.Le devo comunque fare osservare che sia la
vettura
di Glinkenhaus che la vera P4 s/n 0858 non hanno il tubo da lei indicato
con le frecce rosse nella foto n 4(412 P s/n0854 ) mentre hanno il tubo
che lei indica
sempre con le frecce nella foto n 3(dp3 arrows).Questo diversa soluzione è
dovuta alle differenze tra motore 412 e 330.La parte posteriore del telaio
della falsa P4 di Glinkenhaus è stata fatta nuova e questi particolari non
potevano sfuggire ai carrozzieri, che avevano già costruito vere P4.E'
nella parte anteriore che non è stata rifatta, che mi sembra sia la
maggiore distanza dal vero.Lei dimostra comunque che la vettura di
Glinkenhaus non è una P4 originale con le sue foto relative al motore,ed
inoltre la posizione della stessa Ferrari, che ha negato il numero a cui è
molto affezzionato Glinkenhaus,e la mia stessa convinzione negativa e
quanto asserito da altri non dovrebbe fare credere che questa vettura
possa essere considerata originale.Io non sono potuto andare in Sicilia
per motivi di salute e di lavoro, ma sarò a Montecarlo.Ho cercato di fare
chiarezza sui due tipi di telaio per evitarle commenti e problematiche.
Grazie per
tutto con infinite cordialità e rispetto
Mauro Forghieri"




Gabriele Longoni very kindly translated Ing. Forghieri's above email which is as below:


"Dearest Mr.Robertson

I believe you are the biggest P4 expert living nowadays.

I really liked the set of pictures you sent, especially the one about 412 s/n0854 bare chassis and during restoration.

Please note, however, that both Glickenhaus’ car and the real P4 #0858 don’t have the tube you pointed with red arrows on picture n°4 (412P s/n0854) while they have the tube you point with arrows on picture n°3 (dp3 arrows).

This different configuration is because of the differences between a 412 and a 330 engine.

The rear portion of Glickenhaus’ fake P4 is completely new and these details couldn’t have been missed by coachbuilders that built real P4s.

I believe that the biggest differences from a real one are in the front section.

You, with those engine pictures, are proving that Glickenhaus’ car is not a real P4; and Ferrari’s belief too is proving it, because they refuse the number that Glickenhaus loves most; my personal negative belief then and what others said should make anyone believe that this car is original.

I could not travel to Sicily due to health and work issues, but I will go to Montecarlo.

I tried to make things more clear to avoid further problems to you.

Thanks for everything, respectfully and with the best regards.

Mauro Forghieri"

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 2nd May 07:53

[miurasv]

Never you mind said:

Read the FChat thread on the train this morning (really really early) so my brain wasn't in gear but in short , the car reporting to be 0846 isn't really 0846 but a replica built from the plans that someone got of Enzo Ferrari on the basis he was going to build 1 and in the end built 3? Was it sold as such or not?

David Piper described the car as a replica which is what Mr Glickenhaus agreed to buy and bought from him. Piper has been emphatic all along that the chassis is a replica and that the engine is a 3 litre 312 F1 engine, not a P4 engine as Mr Glickenhaus claimed for years. Now that I have proved with photographs that the engine is a 312 F1 engine Mr Glickenhaus has changed his story to suit the evidence by stating that Ferrari rebuilt 0846 with a 3 litre engine after the Le Mans fire and tested it at Mugello where it crashed again. It's not true. The chassis of 0846 was dismantled by Ferrari after Le Mans where it burned in June, 1967, was scrapped by Ferrari and never used again.

Edited by miurasv on Tuesday 11th July 15:42