Performante - 6:52 Ring time
Discussion
Slickhillsy said:
Question (sorry if already covered here).
Is the Performante limited, can anyone walk in to a dealer and buy one or is it the same 'blow smoke up a dealers a$$ for 2 years' as it is with Porsche?
Think you can just walk in, pay your deposit and order one. Not like a GT3 RS where you have to suck dealer cock many many times to get one.Is the Performante limited, can anyone walk in to a dealer and buy one or is it the same 'blow smoke up a dealers a$$ for 2 years' as it is with Porsche?
Slickhillsy said:
Question (sorry if already covered here).
Is the Performante limited, can anyone walk in to a dealer and buy one or is it the same 'blow smoke up a dealers a$$ for 2 years' as it is with Porsche?
Yeah open to anyone and would imagine a few cancel order slots will free up from speculators now the 720S has been launchedIs the Performante limited, can anyone walk in to a dealer and buy one or is it the same 'blow smoke up a dealers a$$ for 2 years' as it is with Porsche?
Sometimes it is difficult to understand what you mean RamboLambo, but in this case I assume that now people have had the opportunity to see the 720s in all it's goggle eyed glory they will withdraw and buy the Performante instead?
PS I refer you to your own postings in the McLaren thread....
PS I refer you to your own postings in the McLaren thread....
Well I sat in the 720s today and if it had floated my boat I might have switched to it! This post has nothing to do with Mumbo Jumbo and all that and I can say the car does look better in real life than the pictures!
However that said no matter how hard I tried to like it I just can't!!!
It is so fussy and there is so much going on that the only conclusion in my opinion was that overall it is a mess!
Getting in and out was a ball ache beyond belief, I do have big feet admittedly! Once in and after kicking just about every panel on the way it is very confined indeed. The guy in the passenger seat said he had had 3 Mclarens and he just couldn't see this being worth another 100k on top of his current car! In half an hour of standing around it all I heard were comments of disappointment and I can clearly see why people are feeling that way!
In summary it just felt very sterile and very difficult to understand with nothing of memorable notability! I would even go as far to say that it felt cheap inside and more like sitting in a computer game than being in a car!
Of course there's acres of storage and if you want to take your hamster on holiday then he could run around on the rear parcel shelf for the whole journey! Either that or you could put some thin Parma ham on it!
Technical almost certainly
Quick I'm sure
Astheiclly pleasing, No way!
I've attended the show for two reasons and that was to confirm which two cars I would continue purchasing?
The result is overwhelmingly the Performante and GT3
Would I buy a 650 or 570, possibly yes, 720s never!
This is in no way a Dig at a person, it's about cars and where my money's going!
Unfortunately the 720 is very forgettable and strangely for about a 100pkus reasons!
Tight Fit
However that said no matter how hard I tried to like it I just can't!!!
It is so fussy and there is so much going on that the only conclusion in my opinion was that overall it is a mess!
Getting in and out was a ball ache beyond belief, I do have big feet admittedly! Once in and after kicking just about every panel on the way it is very confined indeed. The guy in the passenger seat said he had had 3 Mclarens and he just couldn't see this being worth another 100k on top of his current car! In half an hour of standing around it all I heard were comments of disappointment and I can clearly see why people are feeling that way!
In summary it just felt very sterile and very difficult to understand with nothing of memorable notability! I would even go as far to say that it felt cheap inside and more like sitting in a computer game than being in a car!
Of course there's acres of storage and if you want to take your hamster on holiday then he could run around on the rear parcel shelf for the whole journey! Either that or you could put some thin Parma ham on it!
Technical almost certainly
Quick I'm sure
Astheiclly pleasing, No way!
I've attended the show for two reasons and that was to confirm which two cars I would continue purchasing?
The result is overwhelmingly the Performante and GT3
Would I buy a 650 or 570, possibly yes, 720s never!
This is in no way a Dig at a person, it's about cars and where my money's going!
Unfortunately the 720 is very forgettable and strangely for about a 100pkus reasons!
Tight Fit
Edited by Juno on Thursday 9th March 21:56
Edited by Juno on Thursday 9th March 21:58
Looking at the pictures of the Geneva car, unless Lambo left the front lifter switched on, I can't seriously believe anyone actually thinks that the car generates enough downforce 'active aero' or otherwise to make 20-30 seconds on the standard huracan and actually get to 918 pace around a track.
Before 70proof jumps on me
, I obviously accept racelogic's verdict that the data exists for a car that did indeed do 6:52 (so just an issue of the SV's speeds being BS but nevermind). However just look at pictures of the thing, the rideheight is nowhere even close for a car to properly be making downforce of the magnitude required to generate that differential in speeds. the ALA has a drag reduction DRS type effect I agree but the aero elements of the car especially the front and it's rideheight are in no way comparable to a one that will making proper amounts of downforce.
Apart from the meaningless 750% claimed increase in aero over the Huracan (and per Sport Auto supertest that hardly means anything), does anyone have actual hard maximum downforce numbers for the performante?
Before 70proof jumps on me
, I obviously accept racelogic's verdict that the data exists for a car that did indeed do 6:52 (so just an issue of the SV's speeds being BS but nevermind). However just look at pictures of the thing, the rideheight is nowhere even close for a car to properly be making downforce of the magnitude required to generate that differential in speeds. the ALA has a drag reduction DRS type effect I agree but the aero elements of the car especially the front and it's rideheight are in no way comparable to a one that will making proper amounts of downforce. Apart from the meaningless 750% claimed increase in aero over the Huracan (and per Sport Auto supertest that hardly means anything), does anyone have actual hard maximum downforce numbers for the performante?
isaldiri said:
Looking at the pictures of the Geneva car, unless Lambo left the front lifter switched on, I can't seriously believe anyone actually thinks that the car generates enough downforce 'active aero' or otherwise to make 20-30 seconds on the standard huracan and actually get to 918 pace around a track.?
Its not the aero... we agree on something.... the various changes incl of suspension have vastly improved stability under breaking, which means greater confidence .... and driver confidence is a massive part of any timed lap... The lap was set by Sport Auto journalist, Christian Gebhardt, who has since said the Huracan was massively impeded by the ABS system. According to Gebhardt, Lamborghini’s configuration of the ABS system is optimised for Pirelli P Zero rubber, not the Torfeo R’s that the Huracan was wearing at the time. Add to that new trofeo compound....
Edited by 70proof on Friday 10th March 09:35
70proof said:
Its not the aero... we agree on something.... the various changes incl of suspension have vastly improved stability under breaking, which means greater confidence .... and driver confidence is a massive part of any timed lap... The lap was set by Sport Auto journalist, Christian Gebhardt, who has since said the Huracan was massively impeded by the ABS system. According to Gebhardt, Lamborghini’s configuration of the ABS system is optimised for Pirelli P Zero rubber, not the Torfeo R’s that the Huracan was wearing at the time.
Add to that new trofeo compound....
Ok fair enough. It's the aero claims that really wound me up, if you agree it's not generating gt3 race car levels of df (which is pretty much what it needs) for that kind of perf then all is good Add to that new trofeo compound....
Edited by 70proof on Friday 10th March 09:35
Well let's see what SportAuto do on the supertest anyway. If it's more than 15 seconds quicker than the huracan they sent round in 7:28 (already with trofeos) I'd be very surprised. 15 seconds of pure chassis improvement with relatively little to gain on tyres would be enormous and I personally find it hard to see. Proof will be in the pudding i guess!
isaldiri said:
Looking at the pictures of the Geneva car, unless Lambo left the front lifter switched on, I can't seriously believe anyone actually thinks that the car generates enough downforce 'active aero' or otherwise to make 20-30 seconds on the standard huracan and actually get to 918 pace around a track.
Before 70proof jumps on me, I obviously accept racelogic's verdict that the data exists for a car that did indeed do 6:52 (so just an issue of the SV's speeds being BS but nevermind). However just look at pictures of the thing, the rideheight is nowhere even close for a car to properly be making downforce of the magnitude required to generate that differential in speeds. the ALA has a drag reduction DRS type effect I agree but the aero elements of the car especially the front and it's rideheight are in no way comparable to a one that will making proper amounts of downforce.
Apart from the meaningless 750% claimed increase in aero over the Huracan (and per Sport Auto supertest that hardly means anything), does anyone have actual hard maximum downforce numbers for the performante?
The active-aero makes the biggest difference at the back, channeling air through the spoiler in a different way. If you watch the 6:52 Huracan lap vs. the 6:57 Porsche lap, you can see the Lambo makes big gains in the slower, tighter and bumpier sections. Lambo has worked out how to get the power down sooner, and keep it down throughout the whole corner (not just entry and exit).Before 70proof jumps on me
, I obviously accept racelogic's verdict that the data exists for a car that did indeed do 6:52 (so just an issue of the SV's speeds being BS but nevermind). However just look at pictures of the thing, the rideheight is nowhere even close for a car to properly be making downforce of the magnitude required to generate that differential in speeds. the ALA has a drag reduction DRS type effect I agree but the aero elements of the car especially the front and it's rideheight are in no way comparable to a one that will making proper amounts of downforce. Apart from the meaningless 750% claimed increase in aero over the Huracan (and per Sport Auto supertest that hardly means anything), does anyone have actual hard maximum downforce numbers for the performante?
In the real world, for owners, the active-aero is going to make a massive difference in the wet or on greasy damp roads. The car is going to be much faster in the wet than any other supercar, not just the dry.
Isi, one area of aero I do think makes a diff though is the huge lower wing that is the lower bumper section... sure it is not a continuum of the floorpan and would love too see an underneath shot...
Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
Edited by 70proof on Friday 10th March 10:31
70proof said:
Isi, one area of aero I do think makes a diff though is the huge lower wing that is the lower bumper section... sure it is not a continuum of the floorpan and would love too see an underneath shot...
Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
So you're saying that the lambo is as dependent on it's computers as the mclaren... Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
Edited by 70proof on Friday 10th March 10:31
the performante has a bigger diffusor than normal I think but ultimately the ride height controls underbody aero. The lower bumper bit may or may not contribute to the aerodynamics but the rear wing size should mean rear df is adequately taken care of. Much more an issue of generating front downforce. But anyway again I think df is close to meaningless on road cars anyway. Good for marketing bs by all manufacturers but not much else as long as the cars are not generating lift...
isaldiri said:
70proof said:
Isi, one area of aero I do think makes a diff though is the huge lower wing that is the lower bumper section... sure it is not a continuum of the floorpan and would love too see an underneath shot...
Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
the performante has a bigger diffusor than normal I think but ultimately the ride height controls underbody aero. The lower bumper bit may or may not contribute to the aerodynamics but the rear wing size should mean rear df is adequately taken care of. Much more an issue of generating front downforce. But anyway again I think df is close to meaningless on road cars anyway. Good for marketing bs by all manufacturers but not much else as long as the cars are not generating lift...Also, the huracan was launched with a new gyro sensor system like the inner ear.... it controls the reactive chassis components etc... they've had 2 more years to perfect its responses and we all know how important computers are in cars these days...http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/a10561/a-fighter-jet-for-the-road-2015-lamborghini-huracan-lp610-4-16800135/
Edited by 70proof on Friday 10th March 10:31
Lambo split the vents on the left and right sides of the car, and can control downforce on the front and rear separately. The flaps move in ~500 milliseconds. This means the Performante can actually add more downforce on the front under braking, on the rear during acceleration, and can modulate it left-to-right during cornering.
The active-aero system is very clever and way ahead of all rivals. Few people realise this yet.
4321go said:
What is so brilliant about McLaren's design language is that all the cars look exactly the same. So no one can tell if your a Sunningdale McMansion dwelling P1 owner, or if you own a 650S and live in a terraced house...........
Whereas everyone knows if you have a Lamborghini its a rented council househttp://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamborghini/huracan...
A journo who thoughts can be respected imho....
A journo who thoughts can be respected imho....
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