Porsche forum changes
Discussion
Because I'm curious to know why changes are pushed through when;
1) Ted tried it years ago, it was proven not to work and so he changed it back
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
3) why Haymarket think it'll work now
4) the traffic has reduced, despite Oliver's posts he still is skirting round the issue and not actually given an answer to Podie's, Tertius' or my questions
5) it wasn't broken so why attempt to fix it?
1) Ted tried it years ago, it was proven not to work and so he changed it back
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
3) why Haymarket think it'll work now
4) the traffic has reduced, despite Oliver's posts he still is skirting round the issue and not actually given an answer to Podie's, Tertius' or my questions
5) it wasn't broken so why attempt to fix it?
sleep envy said:
Because I'm curious to know why changes are pushed through when;
Clearly I can't speak for Haymarket/PistonHeads, but I can give you some personal perspectives. sleep envy said:
1) Ted tried it years ago, it was proven not to work and so he changed it back
Perhaps the much larger audiences that PH forums now attract make it workable?sleep envy said:
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
Maybe because they are simple scared of change? The reality is that all of the threads in the Porsche forum still can be viewed in exactly the same format as previously, so there isn't a change, really.sleep envy said:
3) why Haymarket think it'll work now
Larger, different profile audience now (see above)?sleep envy said:
4) the traffic has reduced, despite Oliver's posts he still is skirting round the issue and not actually given an answer to Podie's, Tertius' or my questions
Only marginally, and that could easily be accounted for by usual temporal variation. It's close enough to say it hasn't impacted posting rates.sleep envy said:
5) it wasn't broken so why attempt to fix it?
In your view. There could be any number of business and/or technical reasons why it makes sense for Haymarket to make the change now.For example, the ability to better segment their advertising inventory and therefore maximise revenues (e.g. being able to sell an audience of those interested in reading about Boxters rather than Porsches).
Bottom line: nothing need change for you in your experience if you don't want it to; just view the whole Porsche section as one.
jeremyc said:
sleep envy said:
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
Maybe because they are simple scared of change? The reality is that all of the threads in the Porsche forum still can be viewed in exactly the same format as previously, so there isn't a change, really.Bottom line: nothing need change for you in your experience if you don't want it to; just view the whole Porsche section as one.
I very rarely post in the Porsche forums anyway, but it feels like a negative step to me and so I am interested in understanding the logic behind the change, what it was expected to achieve and whether it has succeeded or not against those expectations.
tertius said:
jeremyc said:
sleep envy said:
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
Maybe because they are simple scared of change? The reality is that all of the threads in the Porsche forum still can be viewed in exactly the same format as previously, so there isn't a change, really.Bottom line: nothing need change for you in your experience if you don't want it to; just view the whole Porsche section as one.
I very rarely post in the Porsche forums anyway, but it feels like a negative step to me and so I am interested in understanding the logic behind the change, what it was expected to achieve and whether it has succeeded or not against those expectations.
sleep envy said:
Because I'm curious to know why changes are pushed through when;
1) Ted tried it years ago, it was proven not to work and so he changed it back
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
3) why Haymarket think it'll work now
4) the traffic has reduced, despite Oliver's posts he still is skirting round the issue and not actually given an answer to Podie's, Tertius' or my questions
5) it wasn't broken so why attempt to fix it?
I would suggest all the crazy s1) Ted tried it years ago, it was proven not to work and so he changed it back
2) this topic of splitting the forum always popped up and the very large majority didn't want it
3) why Haymarket think it'll work now
4) the traffic has reduced, despite Oliver's posts he still is skirting round the issue and not actually given an answer to Podie's, Tertius' or my questions
5) it wasn't broken so why attempt to fix it?
t that has gone on is related to the replacement of Stuart by Lee Williams with a remit to make more money and by splitting the forum into 4 they've increased ad space and impressions 4-fold by breaking it upHaymarket press release said:
<...>Williams joins Haymarket on Monday 16 September from Northcliffe Media, now Local World, where as executive director of Northcliffe Digital he has delivered significant direct digital revenue growth.<...>
sourceSwitch said:
sleep envy said:
So, what are the numbers then?
Between the 18th of September and the 18th of October (ie month Pre Split) there were 9021 posts in the singular Porsche forum.Between the 18th of October and the 18th of November (the month following the split) in the Porsche forums as a whole there were 8882 posts. (if we move that month to the month dating back from this date we get 9241)
ETA: For those of you keeping score at home, that's a drop of 1.541%
Think of the usual high poster members who aren't posting any more;
sportsclassic
Fiorano
steve rance
Jackal
MTR
Ade
+ many other regular posters like myself.
I suspect if you took a post count from June, July or August of this year the number of posts will be quite a lot less. This isn't anything to do with the forum split which I'm sure you'll be aware of (plus it hadn't happened by then), but for other more complex reasons.
I guess that's the way these things go however, people come & go for whatever reasons....
Forum splits were my idea, just me.
The aim (as said when discussing the splits elsewhere) was to provide general and specific areas for more brands after I have enjoyed using that format in the TVR section for a few years.
In TVR we chat about this and that in general, but when I want to get advice on fixes, values or specialists I pop into the Chim section. It was with that in mind that I wanted to see if that works across other areas. Keep the general natter area and (attempt to) increase specific model discussions for those that want it.
I never expected the model-specific areas to set the world alight, General was always going to be more popular, but the new areas would be there for those that want it.
Forums don't make revenue to any great extent, that is the job of the classifieds (and not something I am actively involved with aside from a look and feel POV) so any forum work is made without a cash return in mind.
The aim (as said when discussing the splits elsewhere) was to provide general and specific areas for more brands after I have enjoyed using that format in the TVR section for a few years.
In TVR we chat about this and that in general, but when I want to get advice on fixes, values or specialists I pop into the Chim section. It was with that in mind that I wanted to see if that works across other areas. Keep the general natter area and (attempt to) increase specific model discussions for those that want it.
I never expected the model-specific areas to set the world alight, General was always going to be more popular, but the new areas would be there for those that want it.
Forums don't make revenue to any great extent, that is the job of the classifieds (and not something I am actively involved with aside from a look and feel POV) so any forum work is made without a cash return in mind.
G, I genuinely appreciate the response. Thank you.
Were you aware that the topic of splitting the forum was periodically raised, in the main by 'newbs'?
Whilst I understand that may work for TVR, and that you like that format, why do you think it applies to the Porsche forum? At the risk of repeating myself, we had been there before.
No problem.
As I say, and being honest, it was more something I want to see work (to reinforce our dominance of the sports car community) as opposed to reacting to any specific request. I see other forums carrying the more technical and specific content and could see no reason why we couldn't accommodate that too.
We tweaked the supercar section a little to reach a compromise, and I'm happy to tweak here too. I don't want to restrict Porsche to one area, but I am happy to listen to how it might work to achieve a mix of what I'd like and what you guys need.
As I say, and being honest, it was more something I want to see work (to reinforce our dominance of the sports car community) as opposed to reacting to any specific request. I see other forums carrying the more technical and specific content and could see no reason why we couldn't accommodate that too.
We tweaked the supercar section a little to reach a compromise, and I'm happy to tweak here too. I don't want to restrict Porsche to one area, but I am happy to listen to how it might work to achieve a mix of what I'd like and what you guys need.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Switch said:
sleep envy said:
So, what are the numbers then?
Between the 18th of September and the 18th of October (ie month Pre Split) there were 9021 posts in the singular Porsche forum.Between the 18th of October and the 18th of November (the month following the split) in the Porsche forums as a whole there were 8882 posts. (if we move that month to the month dating back from this date we get 9241)
ETA: For those of you keeping score at home, that's a drop of 1.541%
Think of the usual high poster members who aren't posting any more;
sportsclassic
Fiorano
steve rance
Jackal
MTR
Ade
+ many other regular posters like myself.
I suspect if you took a post count from June, July or August of this year the number of posts will be quite a lot less. This isn't anything to do with the forum split which I'm sure you'll be aware of (plus it hadn't happened by then), but for other more complex reasons.
I guess that's the way these things go however, people come & go for whatever reasons....
Sportsclassic : Wasn't that prolific
Fiorano : Ditto Neil
Steve rance : Ditto Steve
Jackal : Less and less over the past twelve months
MTR : Up until a week ago as prolific as ever/anyone . . . .
Ade : Give you that one.
Most of the above have left due to the behaviour of a certain individual who seems to have wound them up. I can genuinely say I'm not sure if he does it on purpose or whether he's oblivious to the annoyance he's caused/causing. Though if pushed to make a judgement call, I suspect it's the former.
Like you, I still visit the Porsche forum to lurk (and post occasionally) But to me it seems to be a case of "the lunatics having taken over the asylum".
What's very clear is the Porsche forum is populated by a very different crowd even compared with 18 months/2 years ago. Now there are lot's of contributions from individuals who've never driven, let alone owned, a Porsche. The lack of yourself and all the other regular stalwart contributors you've named, does make the forum a poorer place. The other issue being that once the regular, decent contributors leave, they very rarely come back.
I'm guessing the likes of Ric (Sleep Envy), Nervous (Matt Bagley), WetWipe, Guy R, Dan H and numerous others felt exactly the same way 3,4,5 years ago.
When you've spent a lot of time contributing to a forum and found friends through it, it's tough seeing it change in such a manner (more often than not into something we perceive as not being better).
Edited by Slippydiff on Tuesday 3rd December 17:03
Slippydiff sums up the current status quite well.
Regarding the technical stuff, no splitting of the forum will bring more of it to PH, IMO. There are other forums for cars like the Boxster and that won't change.
Maybe bumping one or two of the thread-killers might help. Some of the old regulars might drift back over time.
Regarding the technical stuff, no splitting of the forum will bring more of it to PH, IMO. There are other forums for cars like the Boxster and that won't change.
Maybe bumping one or two of the thread-killers might help. Some of the old regulars might drift back over time.
I think what Paul wanted makes else but I guess if I were looking to make a Porsche forum I'd go for something like this
Porsche Talk
General Porsche "craic"
Water Cooled & Moderns
For all water cooled engine flat 6s & 8s
Air Cooled & Classics
Obviously for all air cooled flat 6s & 4s
Front Engined
924/944/968 & 928
Obviously all of the above with still the remaining Porsche button that gives you an overview of the whole forum, which personally I feel is incredibly important as the main flow of threads in the Porsche section (& I presume what sleepenvy misses?) & what made it such a great place is that Porsche is a brand that lots of people stick with, they might have started out with a 944, went through some air cooled & then presently be running a Gt3 or the like. Just because they now own a £100k supercar doesn't mean they don't remember that little trick about cleaning your ISV or how to remove it from your post varioram 3.6 993!
By reducing the chance of people seeing a thread where they may have an opinion or help to give you're reducing the chance of the thread growing & prospering thus getting repeated views by each member.
(For what it's worth, I preferred the old style because of Porsche forum just for this reason although I'm not scarred of progress!)
I suppose any or whatever format you eventually decide upon is going to give the mods more work to do, but it would be sad to think of someone in desperate help with their 924 ignition system won't get the answer to their problem because their thread is posted in some front engined forum & the guy who knows is currently in a spat with mrdemon about how his gt3 can out brake a spyder
Porsche Talk
General Porsche "craic"
Water Cooled & Moderns
For all water cooled engine flat 6s & 8s
Air Cooled & Classics
Obviously for all air cooled flat 6s & 4s
Front Engined
924/944/968 & 928
Obviously all of the above with still the remaining Porsche button that gives you an overview of the whole forum, which personally I feel is incredibly important as the main flow of threads in the Porsche section (& I presume what sleepenvy misses?) & what made it such a great place is that Porsche is a brand that lots of people stick with, they might have started out with a 944, went through some air cooled & then presently be running a Gt3 or the like. Just because they now own a £100k supercar doesn't mean they don't remember that little trick about cleaning your ISV or how to remove it from your post varioram 3.6 993!
By reducing the chance of people seeing a thread where they may have an opinion or help to give you're reducing the chance of the thread growing & prospering thus getting repeated views by each member.
(For what it's worth, I preferred the old style because of Porsche forum just for this reason although I'm not scarred of progress!)
I suppose any or whatever format you eventually decide upon is going to give the mods more work to do, but it would be sad to think of someone in desperate help with their 924 ignition system won't get the answer to their problem because their thread is posted in some front engined forum & the guy who knows is currently in a spat with mrdemon about how his gt3 can out brake a spyder
Magic919 said:
Slippydiff sums up the current status quite well.
Indeed he does, & slippy I agree about some of the posters I mentioned however they were just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.Bizarrely, I signed up & started posting on PH originally 5 or 6 years ago I guess when I was looking for help to buy a 964RS & like you say, there was a switch of posters about a year after I started. I say bizarrely as there was a huge bunfight regarding the 964RS' I was looking at with posters slagging each other off & slating certain cars that had been smashed & needed thousands spent on them.
The more things change, the more they stay the same eh?!
Slippydiff said:
the lunatics having taken over the asylum
Ain't that the truth! Though to be fair to mrdemon, outside of PH he has contacted me for advice & couldn't have been more pleasant, something that can't be levelled to all posters unfortunately. We're all adults with more important things in life than worrying about a forum, but perhaps in hindsight some self policing in pointing mods in the right direction might have helped.However, with the "de riguer" of posters in there now of having duplicate forum identities, b
hing, sending abusive PMs & threatening behaviour at track days it becomes a case of shaking your head & letting the lunatics run with it 
Garlick said:
No problem.
As I say, and being honest, it was more something I want to see work (to reinforce our dominance of the sports car community) as opposed to reacting to any specific request. I see other forums carrying the more technical and specific content and could see no reason why we couldn't accommodate that too.
We tweaked the supercar section a little to reach a compromise, and I'm happy to tweak here too. I don't want to restrict Porsche to one area, but I am happy to listen to how it might work to achieve a mix of what I'd like and what you guys need.
With regard to technical content there's a fundamental difference here which I believe you've overlooked. PH was primarily a TVR site hence the very large, helpful and knowledgeable core to be found there. The site has grown organically around that into what it is today yet that TVR core remains. You occasionally see posts stating that members have never ventured outside of the TVR specific fora and TBH that doesn't surprise me.As I say, and being honest, it was more something I want to see work (to reinforce our dominance of the sports car community) as opposed to reacting to any specific request. I see other forums carrying the more technical and specific content and could see no reason why we couldn't accommodate that too.
We tweaked the supercar section a little to reach a compromise, and I'm happy to tweak here too. I don't want to restrict Porsche to one area, but I am happy to listen to how it might work to achieve a mix of what I'd like and what you guys need.
I personally don't see how you can replicate that in the Porsche forum as there simply isn't anywhere near the knowledge base, particularly in comparison to other Porsche specific sites. I'm sorry to say but if I have a technical issue PH isn't my first port of call, nor is it my second or third either.
The owners of the marques are worlds apart on PH. I can't recall in my 10 years anyone starting a thread documenting a ground up refurbishment or significant repairs/rebuilds in their own garage in the Porsche forum, the most common technical thread in there these days is about Rev Ranges.
As for specific content, there is a considerable amount of owners of one model who will hold an opinion on another model either out of pure nosiness or they're past/prospective owners. By carving up the forum into specific model format you'll lose that with the consequence that section will become insular. Whilst not every post will be deemed relevant or even popular it does spark debate which I think will be absent with this change.
steve singh said:
It feels very slow to me at the moment - i posted about bore scoring and i got a brilliant reply from hartech, but no one else. A few months ago that wouldn't have happened - would have had a 2 page thread within a day!
Sadly, a lot of posters no longer bother contributing because there is always someone else ready to tell them they are wrong.When I joined there was a good community spirit and everyone (apart from KayC) was largely a good laugh. Now it feels a fairly anonymous place which these changes will only make worse.
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