Please be more honest and quicker to deal with bad stuff

[turbobloke]

FiF said:

I might get a ban for even discussing it in order to give some historical context as one of the originals. So be that if they want to do that.Shrugs.

It's remarkable and a shame that you had to consider the possibility.

[Ollie_M]

Hi everyone,

We do understand and sympathise with people's frustrations and are taking on board on that is being said and obviously the recent political threads have highlighted some important moderating issues which we will be addressing as a matter of utmost importance
We will therefore, be discussing new methods and practises and also possibly new systems to ensure that moderation is conducted fairly and in 'real time' to prevent a repeat of recent activities.
These will be introduced over the forthcoming weeks, once we have finalised with all departments involved and the moderators what the best possible plan of action to take.


PH

[LordGrover]

PH is is unusable on my nexus 9. Literally impossible to reply to the forums.

It's a fking joke.

I thought mobile devices is the way forward but I've had to fire up a computer even to complain.

I enjoy the fun, banter, discussions, advice, help, comradery, etc and I'll keep coming back, but I wonder for how much longer.

PH is fked.

Last one out switch off the lights.

[rscott]

LordGrover said:

PH is is unusable on my nexus 9. Literally impossible to reply to the forums.

It's a fking joke.

I thought mobile devices is the way forward but I've had to fire up a computer even to complain.

I enjoy the fun, banter, discussions, advice, help, comradery, etc and I'll keep coming back, but I wonder for how much longer.

PH is fked.

Last one out switch off the lights.

Weird. Works okay on my Nexus 7. Are you using the GTI skin? If you are, then why can't you reply?

[eharding]

LordGrover said:

PH is is unusable on my nexus 9. Literally impossible to reply to the forums.

It's a fking joke.

I thought mobile devices is the way forward but I've had to fire up a computer even to complain.

I enjoy the fun, banter, discussions, advice, help, comradery, etc and I'll keep coming back, but I wonder for how much longer.

PH is fked.

Last one out switch off the lights.

Have you checked that your Nexus 9 isn't one of the small batch that were erroneously shipped from the factory running a highly experimental version of Android, intended only for use in a completely isolated sandpit environment as part of one of Google's advanced social engineering projects?

If your Nexus 9 'About' system info tells you that it's running something like 'Jellybean', 'Kitkat' or 'Lollipop', then you're fine - the problem you're seeing is something to do with the drugs the PH hamsters have been taking recently.

If, of the other hand, the Nexus reports that it is running a branch of Android called 'Boot-Boy-Stormtrooper-Wannabee-Spacktard-Cornetto', and then calls you a pinko-commie traitor, then you may have one of the faulty units, and you should contact Google for a replacement.

Stoned as they are, the PH hamsters have had to deal with a number of these rogue Nexus units recently, and are now erring on the safe side.

[Ollie_M]

The PH Hamsters have been booked into rehab to get clean.

Just to let you know that the site detects any device with a display less than 750px as a tablets which are causing a bit of a difficulty with some of the Phablets. We did release a better detection script yesterday so hopefully that will help.

If you could upload any screen shots of the issues you are facing that would be a great help and also check that you are using the GTI skin

Edited by Ollie_M on Wednesday 9th September 11:57

[AW111]

On the subject of moderation, other forums replace moderated posts with a boilerplate "this post has been deleted by a moderator".

PH's "stealth moderation", where posts (and whole threads) just disappear, has 2 shortcomings as I see it :
1/ Moderated threads become confusing to follow, especially if you skip back to check a post that has vanished
2/ It would give us some feedback as to how much moderation is taking place, and maybe reassure some people that the mods are out there and on the case

I personally find the tone of some of the NP&E threads unpleasant, but no-one is forcing me to read them, and unpleasant is not the same as ban-worthy. I avoided the Calais thread because I expected it to go downhill from the start.

What is much more serious is the persistant calling left-wingers people who I wouldn't share my Daily Worker with.

[Lucas CAV]

Thanks for the update. All good on a mobile here provided you are logged in.

Ollie_M said:

Hi everyone,

We do understand and sympathise with people's frustrations and are taking on board on that is being said and obviously the recent political threads have highlighted some important moderating issues which we will be addressing as a matter of utmost importance
We will therefore, be discussing new methods and practises and also possibly new systems to ensure that moderation is conducted fairly and in 'real time' to prevent a repeat of recent activities.
These will be introduced over the forthcoming weeks, once we have finalised with all departments involved and the moderators what the best possible plan of action to take.


PH

[Countdown]

AW111 said:

On the subject of moderation, other forums replace moderated posts with a boilerplate "this post has been deleted by a moderator".

PH's "stealth moderation", where posts (and whole threads) just disappear, has 2 shortcomings as I see it :
1/ Moderated threads become confusing to follow, especially if you skip back to check a post that has vanished
2/ It would give us some feedback as to how much moderation is taking place, and maybe reassure some people that the mods are out there and on the case

I personally find the tone of some of the NP&E threads unpleasant, but no-one is forcing me to read them, and unpleasant is not the same as ban-worthy. I avoided the Calais thread because I expected it to go downhill from the start.
.

Fully agree - especially point 2. However you'd then get a deluge of "PC gone mad" complaints.

[FiF]

Countdown said:

AW111 said:

On the subject of moderation, other forums replace moderated posts with a boilerplate "this post has been deleted by a moderator".

PH's "stealth moderation", where posts (and whole threads) just disappear, has 2 shortcomings as I see it :
1/ Moderated threads become confusing to follow, especially if you skip back to check a post that has vanished
2/ It would give us some feedback as to how much moderation is taking place, and maybe reassure some people that the mods are out there and on the case

I personally find the tone of some of the NP&E threads unpleasant, but no-one is forcing me to read them, and unpleasant is not the same as ban-worthy. I avoided the Calais thread because I expected it to go downhill from the start.
.

Fully agree - especially point 2. However you'd then get a deluge of "PC gone mad" complaints.

I don't think it would generate complaints of PC gone mad. The moderators largely do the thankless job reasonably well imho. Yes it can seem a bit variable on occasions but is that down to observational bias on the part of the reader? On occasions it can seem as if some of the moderation is a tad one sided, see previous sentence re bias. I certainly don't see blatantly unfair or unwarranted edits / deletions or bias from the moderation team, but then again see above. Sometimes there's been a bit of a slow reaction or things allowed to go too far. But seriously how many of us have come back a thread to go "wow" or clearly there has been some moderation and no idea what's happened. I don't occupy the forum or any thread day in day out, and neither will the mods. Clearly there are occasions when the ball is dropped and that's been evident in NP&E hence this thread.

The only issue I have is that once an issue has been raised, or a report that particular contributor(s) getting " carried away" even if the initial decision is no action then a watching brief is warranted, see no evidence of that.

The other thing that troubles me is when someone known as a moderator enters into the discussion. Is their input of a personal nature or is there a moderator hat on, even if only a little bit. Certainly if the comment is moderation then that must be made clear.

Also who are the moderators?

The thing about PH is that historically it'sbeen self moderated by the membersand ththat's a good thing ref earlier limited resource comments earlier. Thankfully it's not one of those places where every post has to be approved first. Also thankfully it's not like some other places that really are like a zoo that wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Everyone has different personal standards and limits, some get carried away and some are, frankly, a bit precious.

TL:DR Basically I think apart from odd lapses the moderation isn't far off the mark, it may be an issue of resource rather than standards.



@Bill. Read your mail, will reply need access to proper computer rather than this useless phone.

Edited by FiF on Thursday 10th September 07:47

[LordGrover]

FiF said:

To be fair CTF's formation was principally driven by the need to have a secure website /forum area to facilitate players on one of these multiplayer war games. PH wouldn't permit a special forum so a number of members, including myself, cleared off.

There was also a certain dissatisfaction with the way certain factions on PH behaved, for example the violently anti plod posters that were ruining and to some extent still do ruin Speed, Plod and Law.

Afaik still have an account over there but not posted in years. Left not long after stopped playing the Internet war game referenced above.

PH has always treated that site with suspicion, despite there was absolutely no intent to stop or even reduce people posting on PH. For a time any reference to them on a thread was immediately moderated out. So be it. Childish frankly. I might get a ban for even discussing it in order to give some historical context as one of the originals. So be that if they want to do that.Shrugs.

Under the regime here on PH for some time things have changed significantly. Again as said before if could find a place with the spirit of the old PH under Ted you'd not see my arse for dust.

I'm sure you're not alone.
I was late to the party and too late for PH's halcyon days. The year or so I sat on the sidelines before joining was great - wish I'd joined in sooner.
I'm only here now as there's nothing better. I still enjoy parts and happy to contribute as well as learn 'stuff', but I'd be long gone if there was anywhere else with the old community spirit.

[Ollie_M]

Thanks Fif for the feedback,

Ollie

[BOR]

You know things have gone too far when even the right-wingers are saying "hey, things have gone too far"

NPE was my favourite Forum for a long time - There was at least some humour, gallows humour but humour nonetheless. Now it seems infected with a low value, corrosive bigotry. It's not just the racism, there are some impressive levels of mysogyny on display these days too.

But that's my problem. If I don't like it, I don't have too read it. The problem is that it's making me somewhat ashamed of Pistonheads in general.

Ultimately, NPE is damaging the rest of the site and sadly, my view is that it should be shut down, at least temporarily.

[Lucas CAV]

BOR said:

You know things have gone too far when even the right-wingers are saying "hey, things have gone too far"

NPE was my favourite Forum for a long time - There was at least some humour, gallows humour but humour nonetheless. Now it seems infected with a low value, corrosive bigotry. It's not just the racism, there are some impressive levels of mysogyny on display these days too.

But that's my problem. If I don't like it, I don't have too read it. The problem is that it's making me somewhat ashamed of Pistonheads in general.

Ultimately, NPE is damaging the rest of the site and sadly, my view is that it should be shut down, at least temporarily.

I don't agree about shutting down N, P and R but open, transparent and public moderating would be a good start -

[FiF]

I'm sorry but what does N, P and R stand for. I don't recognise that acronym.

??

[Bill]

Some wag called it news politics and racism and it seems to be sticking.

I've replied btw, my email address tends to cause kittens for spam filters.

[LordGrover]

Are you still fluffymoistwotsit?

[FiF]

Bill said:

Some wag called it news politics and racism and it seems to be sticking.

I've replied btw, my email address tends to cause kittens for spam filters.

Ok Bill will have a look.

Re the NPR thing thanks for that also, will tune my filters to divert those who use it into the appropriate round filing cabinet.

[Bill]

LordGrover said:

Are you still fluffymoistwotsit?

[TheExcession]

FiF said:

TL:DR Basically I think apart from odd lapses the moderation isn't far off the mark, it may be an issue of resource rather than standards.

It wasn't too long and I did read. If you're going to take the time to type all that, I'm going to take the time reading it.



One of the issues that surrounded the climate threads was that sometimes these threads would grow three or four pages in a very short space of time.

At the time most of the regular site-wide mods freely admitted that they simple didn't read the threads for a few reasons.

1. They really weren't interested in the topic.
2. They didn't have any background to the posters who were contributing.


So if a 'trouble maker' kicked off and it was reported by a PH poster, quite often the mods could be making the wrong call in cleaning up the thread or even banning people.

So something had to change.

What was actually going on in the background was that three or four 'mini' mods (who didn't have full mod privileges) but who did and still do have a great interest in the topic were given means to read certain behind the scenes info that would be recorded about certain posters - both pro and anti to the debate.

What many people will completely fail to realise or even understand is that almost all of the effort was to try and keep the threads open and not ban anyone.

If you can imagine as a regular site-wide mod you log in and there are 10 reports in the mods forum about the climate thread, all from different posters with differing points of view - what is your site-wide mod supposed to do? Read back through fifty pages to try and figure out who is in the wrong or who is in the right (in terms of the PH posting rules and etiquette).

Their only option was to simply close the thread, and there was a time when PH was considering banning any climate science threads full stop - they were causing too much trouble for the mods.

What the team of mini mods actually did was to remove much of the 'noise' from these threads and they spent a heap of their time discussing in the background the most appropriate way to not ban people from the threads.

You might need to read that again - most of our discussions were about how we could avoid banning posters from those threads. Many of them were warned on several occasions via email, but eventually a line was crossed and they were blocked. (IIRC, I think over the years there was only one poster that got a site wide ban, maybe two).

Now before anyone jumps to any conclusions - I should state that turbobloke was never part of this mod team. Sure we got the odd report from him and we exchanged a few emails, but to be honest we didn't really need any feedback from him because generally we spotted it before he did.

TL;DR
Being a mod on a site like PH is an utterly can't do right for doing wrong type of affair - anyone here ever posted/reported to a mod a thank-you for sorting something out?

And yes it is a massive resource problem.

On busy threads that derail quickly, as a mod it is very hard to spot the good guys from the bad guys.

HTH.