Please be more honest and quicker to deal with bad stuff
Discussion
BOR said:
You know things have gone too far when even the right-wingers are saying "hey, things have gone too far"
NPE was my favourite Forum for a long time - There was at least some humour, gallows humour but humour nonetheless. Now it seems infected with a low value, corrosive bigotry. It's not just the racism, there are some impressive levels of mysogyny on display these days too.
But that's my problem. If I don't like it, I don't have too read it. The problem is that it's making me somewhat ashamed of Pistonheads in general.
Ultimately, NPE is damaging the rest of the site and sadly, my view is that it should be shut down, at least temporarily.
One wonders if it is more of an intellect devoid issue.NPE was my favourite Forum for a long time - There was at least some humour, gallows humour but humour nonetheless. Now it seems infected with a low value, corrosive bigotry. It's not just the racism, there are some impressive levels of mysogyny on display these days too.
But that's my problem. If I don't like it, I don't have too read it. The problem is that it's making me somewhat ashamed of Pistonheads in general.
Ultimately, NPE is damaging the rest of the site and sadly, my view is that it should be shut down, at least temporarily.
I've pretty much given up posting on PH full stop unless I need some help with a specific problem.
Over the last few weeks I've had two fairly deep technical problems. One was resolved on topic and in the thread very very quickly, the other is on going and has now been taken off thread, but there is a PHer here that is answering my emails daily as we try to resolve the issue.
I think the 'old crew' and some of the 'new crew' really do realise what a fantastic and wide audience PH still has and what a wealth of experience you have at your finger tips.
What I am finding is that the 'old crew' are giving up posting unless the spot something they can help with.
So essentially what is happening is the professional people that have something to offer, are giving up even posting because some a
hole is going to come and reply why you are wrong when you are right.The Computer and Gadgets forum used to be full of really knowledgeable people, there still are a few good people that watch over that forum, but so many of the best have been lost.
Pigeon for example is a guru in Linux shell scripting and helped me out so many times with real non trivial stuff, Cyberface was also undoubtedly an expert in his field. Gone. We've lost so many people.
There are so many people who are/were hounded out - in politic speak I think the term is 'Questions have to be asked and lessons must be learnt'.
When the site was floated and Haymarket bought - did the Haymarket board just think they were buying an active website that required no investment of people and time?
Did they take on board a brilliant website and state "No you can't run a website like that - it has to be run LIKE THIS"?
A quick read through the website feedback forum tells us all we as PH users need to know.
Ted pulled a blinder off loading this site when he did, likely at the top of the market.
It has dropped significantly in quality since then.
If there was anywhere else I could go (and I'm looking) then like so many others have said I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
The Excession said:
TL;DR
Being a mod on a site like PH is an utterly can't do right for doing wrong type of affair - anyone here ever posted/reported to a mod a thank-you for sorting something out?
And yes it is a massive resource problem.
On busy threads that derail quickly, as a mod it is very hard to spot the good guys from the bad guys.
HTH.
Just like your comment, it wasn't too long and did read it for exactly the same reasons. Being a mod on a site like PH is an utterly can't do right for doing wrong type of affair - anyone here ever posted/reported to a mod a thank-you for sorting something out?
And yes it is a massive resource problem.
On busy threads that derail quickly, as a mod it is very hard to spot the good guys from the bad guys.
HTH.
Thanks for writing it, very interesting and can see the problem. Must admit that even given a subject I'm interested in, say, coming in and there's ten pages to catch up on, many is the time that even knowing the background and the position of the regular posters it's easy to come in, take a view that someone is being a bit of an arse, only to find that on reflection it's not that straightforward. How a mod comes in cold and sorts it in any reasonable time is anyone's guess, particularly as it'll be on a fast mover. Interesting about the mini mods approach and the efforts to keep threads running and posters on side. Guess it's a feature of the thing that those who don't get on the wrong end of the moderation stick don't see it going on.
In terms of your question about saying thanks, I have on an occasion but not regularly. It's the wariness of the school snitch attitude that is so prevalent around the place.
Thanks again for the input and yes it does help.
FiF said:
Thanks again for the input and yes it does help.
Thank you for that - you are very welcome, and so is everyone else.(This not aimed at you FiF).
What people here on this site also need to understand is these issues are going on all over the PH site.
The mods work for free, for nothing, nada, not a bean. Zilch.
It is my belief that the mods here do not moderate posts out of any power trip, Big Al has often been accused of that.
These people moderate these forums because they actually care that the forums and topics will continue.
They work and spend their time doing this, not because they were elected, they were often volunteered by their peers, and then had to agree they were willing to spend their time tidying up the rubbish that other people might post.
To be honest, I don't think there is much wrong with the moderation of this web site - I do however think there is a massive problem in the quality of inappropriate and poorly thought out posting.
Anyway, I think it's about time the current mods prepare a statement and post it.
I think I've said enough.
One more comment from me and then I'll shut up. : sighs of relief all round:
Haymarket please read the above post from the Excession and then read it again. Particularly the bit about the old crew refraining from posting unless it's a specific topic with which they can help and then getting drowned with stuff thatwas just plain wrong. Is it any wonder that folks get a bit blunt, for want of a better expression.
There were warnings this was happening some time ago, perhaps only in specific forums which tended to have issues which polarised opinions. It's spread wider and wider across the site.
Not beyond fixing but a slippery slope. Maybe it's a natural cycle in a forum, certainly go back a few years and newcomers would have found it very difficult to come in considering the distinct cliqueyness (is that a word) around the place who were at times not at all welcoming. So it wasn't all green fields and roses round the door back then either.
Haymarket please read the above post from the Excession and then read it again. Particularly the bit about the old crew refraining from posting unless it's a specific topic with which they can help and then getting drowned with stuff thatwas just plain wrong. Is it any wonder that folks get a bit blunt, for want of a better expression.
There were warnings this was happening some time ago, perhaps only in specific forums which tended to have issues which polarised opinions. It's spread wider and wider across the site.
Not beyond fixing but a slippery slope. Maybe it's a natural cycle in a forum, certainly go back a few years and newcomers would have found it very difficult to come in considering the distinct cliqueyness (is that a word) around the place who were at times not at all welcoming. So it wasn't all green fields and roses round the door back then either.
The trouble is, whilst it's annoying when people come in with stuff that's wrong, how are the moderators supposed to establish this, and what are they to do about it?
Firstly they may not be experts in that particular subject.
Secondly, is it desirable to start deleting posts that the moderators deem are incorrect? I think not. And if you are not going to delete the posts, what exactly should be done?
A forum is an interactive community, we can't just read the type of posts we like. If someone is wrong, tell them so, don't expect that someone will come and delete the post.
Firstly they may not be experts in that particular subject.
Secondly, is it desirable to start deleting posts that the moderators deem are incorrect? I think not. And if you are not going to delete the posts, what exactly should be done?
A forum is an interactive community, we can't just read the type of posts we like. If someone is wrong, tell them so, don't expect that someone will come and delete the post.
It's not about whether stuff is wrong or right , it's the way that the exchange takes place.
When it breaks posting rules and people are just getting straight and offensive ad homs incoming then can you blame them for saying stuff it. When you're trying to help someone who isn't hearing the message they want to hear and they just turn round and call you "filth" then it's not worth spending time to interact.
That happened to me and a long time ago too to reinforce the point that we must not wear rose tinted specs about back then. As it happens that poster was just ignored afterwards by me, either they left later or were banned due to something else.
When it breaks posting rules and people are just getting straight and offensive ad homs incoming then can you blame them for saying stuff it. When you're trying to help someone who isn't hearing the message they want to hear and they just turn round and call you "filth" then it's not worth spending time to interact.
That happened to me and a long time ago too to reinforce the point that we must not wear rose tinted specs about back then. As it happens that poster was just ignored afterwards by me, either they left later or were banned due to something else.
TheExcession said:
...
TL;DR
Being a mod on a site like PH is an utterly can't do right for doing wrong type of affair - anyone here ever posted/reported to a mod a thank-you for sorting something out?
...
Good post and apols for selective quoting.TL;DR
Being a mod on a site like PH is an utterly can't do right for doing wrong type of affair - anyone here ever posted/reported to a mod a thank-you for sorting something out?
...
I'm often pleased when moderation takes place and grateful when it's a result of my occasional report. There's no way to thank or even acknowledge the mod(s) though, without 'admitting' you're a snitch.
Many moons ago I (wrongly) reported a few posts which I thought were offensive and personal attacks. Big Al duly ticked off the 'offenders' and edited or removed the offending posts. He got a lot of stick for over-moderation when he was just responding to my (and maybe others) reports. I put my hand up and said I'd reported it and was vilified as a squealer. Turns out it was all a lark and they were all good friends on and off line and just taking the mickey out of each other. All my fault - Big Al was just doing his (unpaid voluntary) job. It all blew over but left a bad taste for a while.
I'd like to think I'm a little more forum/PH savvy now and less likely to make the same mistake, but I'm not likely to put my hand up again to thank a mod 'on-topic'.
Maybe an email acknowledging a report that's been acted upon, with a reply-to address is a worthwhile route to allow feedback?
To all the doom and gloom merchants predicting the demise of this site, like everything else in life things evolve, people come and people go. Most sensible posters on here will sift through the crap and enjoy the site for what it is.
Posters who decide to walk away are to some extent playing into the hands of the disruptive element. These places have a tendency to self moderate and posters either realise they have crossed the line based on the strength of responses to them, or they quickly disappear when they can't get the reaction they are looking for.
There will always be a few very emotive threads, that's a reflection of life in general.
This site is what it is due to the members, we have the power to change it, guide it, without resorting to walking away.
How often have we seen new posters, or the regular older posters being deliberately provocative and argumentative. They only thrive if they get the response they are trying to provoke, so it is down to us to make sure that doesn't happen.
What fun is a thread if only the trolls and idiots are posting. They will soon get fed up and move on.
IGNORE THEM
...................... anybody?
Posters who decide to walk away are to some extent playing into the hands of the disruptive element. These places have a tendency to self moderate and posters either realise they have crossed the line based on the strength of responses to them, or they quickly disappear when they can't get the reaction they are looking for.
There will always be a few very emotive threads, that's a reflection of life in general.
This site is what it is due to the members, we have the power to change it, guide it, without resorting to walking away.
How often have we seen new posters, or the regular older posters being deliberately provocative and argumentative. They only thrive if they get the response they are trying to provoke, so it is down to us to make sure that doesn't happen.
What fun is a thread if only the trolls and idiots are posting. They will soon get fed up and move on.
IGNORE THEM
...................... anybody?
TheExcession said:
Ted pulled a blinder off loading this site when he did, likely at the top of the market.
It has dropped significantly in quality since then.
If there was anywhere else I could go (and I'm looking) then like so many others have said I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
There is, and Teds running it.........It has dropped significantly in quality since then.
If there was anywhere else I could go (and I'm looking) then like so many others have said I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
LordGrover said:
Maybe an email acknowledging a report that's been acted upon, with a reply-to address is a worthwhile route to allow feedback?
A proper PM system would go a long way to solving these issues. Some way for members to communicate privately without having to fire off an email to an inbox that may or may not be read.TheExcession said:
One wonders if it is more of an intellect devoid issue.
I've pretty much given up posting on PH full stop unless I need some help with a specific problem.
I think the 'old crew' and some of the 'new crew' really do realise what a fantastic and wide audience PH still has and what a wealth of experience you have at your finger tips.
What I am finding is that the 'old crew' are giving up posting unless the spot something they can help with.
So essentially what is happening is the professional people that have something to offer, are giving up even posting because some ahole is going to come and reply why you are wrong when you are right.
The Computer and Gadgets forum used to be full of really knowledgeable people, there still are a few good people that watch over that forum, but so many of the best have been lost.
Pigeon for example is a guru in Linux shell scripting and helped me out so many times with real non trivial stuff, Cyberface was also undoubtedly an expert in his field. Gone. We've lost so many people.
There are so many people who are/were hounded out - in politic speak I think the term is 'Questions have to be asked and lessons must be learnt'.
When the site was floated and Haymarket bought - did the Haymarket board just think they were buying an active website that required no investment of people and time?
Did they take on board a brilliant website and state "No you can't run a website like that - it has to be run LIKE THIS"?
A quick read through the website feedback forum tells us all we as PH users need to know.
Ted pulled a blinder off loading this site when he did, likely at the top of the market.
It has dropped significantly in quality since then.
If there was anywhere else I could go (and I'm looking) then like so many others have said I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
Goodness me, I had to go on my posting history to check I didn't type this lot myself. I've pretty much given up posting on PH full stop unless I need some help with a specific problem.
I think the 'old crew' and some of the 'new crew' really do realise what a fantastic and wide audience PH still has and what a wealth of experience you have at your finger tips.
What I am finding is that the 'old crew' are giving up posting unless the spot something they can help with.
So essentially what is happening is the professional people that have something to offer, are giving up even posting because some a
hole is going to come and reply why you are wrong when you are right.The Computer and Gadgets forum used to be full of really knowledgeable people, there still are a few good people that watch over that forum, but so many of the best have been lost.
Pigeon for example is a guru in Linux shell scripting and helped me out so many times with real non trivial stuff, Cyberface was also undoubtedly an expert in his field. Gone. We've lost so many people.
There are so many people who are/were hounded out - in politic speak I think the term is 'Questions have to be asked and lessons must be learnt'.
When the site was floated and Haymarket bought - did the Haymarket board just think they were buying an active website that required no investment of people and time?
Did they take on board a brilliant website and state "No you can't run a website like that - it has to be run LIKE THIS"?
A quick read through the website feedback forum tells us all we as PH users need to know.
Ted pulled a blinder off loading this site when he did, likely at the top of the market.
It has dropped significantly in quality since then.
If there was anywhere else I could go (and I'm looking) then like so many others have said I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
Have you been somehow reading my thoughts on the odd occasion I'm not wearing my tin foil protective hat and colander
Wise words....
Ted's new site hasn't gained critical mass and I struggle a bit with the whole picture format, preferring lists which can be quickly searched but that could just be because I'm old. I appreciate big pictures and being led on a journey is the Windows way. Possibly that's why I use a Mac ?
Henry
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