(PENDING)Phonesafe, Beware!!!!!

[MJGerrard]

I have to express my disappointment with pistonheads. I have just discovered I have been calling premium rate phone numbers to reply to adverts. I do not object to the high charges as long as it is made clear. It is NOT clear at the moment!! The numbers start 07 so appear to me as mobile numbers. I have been unknowingly using my mobile phone to ring them thinking I was saving on the BT costs. I dread to think how much this has cost me.

I have always been more than happy with the services pistonheads provides but I think they have let us down here, big time! I would like to see it made clear to users so others are not tricked like me.

Is this reasonable?

[Wacky Racer]

If this is true, I have to say you have a fair point.......

[R60EST]

I always assumed as it starts 07 it must be charged at normal mobile rates. I may be wrong , does the same thing apply to Auto Traders version of phonesafe and what exactly are the call charges per minute?

[Stu R]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/phonesafe.asp

well, I sort of agree it could be perhaps publicised a bit better, perhaps in each advert but the phonesafe logo is clickable on each advert and takes you to the link above, which pretty clearly outlines what it's going to cost you. I do loathe the fact it's an 07 number though.

Personally I think it's a total waste of time anyway, if I'm not calling a landline number I know, or a seller won't provide one, I'd move on to the next ad anyway. I've never had such a situation yet though, and I've always offered my own number as a seller when placing an advert. Works for me, as I see the phonesafe feature as potentially off-putting.

Edited by Stu R on Tuesday 6th October 22:09

[Garlick]

Phonesafe has been in operation for some time now, and by and large it has served us and those using it well.

However, you raise a good point regarding clarity of pricing. We are acting above and beyond our legal obligation with regards to displaying prices (you need to click on the logo to see them) but I will chat with the provider to see if that can be made clearer as it is not out intention to hide anything or to misinform.

If you are unhappy with anything regarding this moving forward, please feel free to e mail me, or communicate via this forum if you prefer.

[marshalla]

07 does not mean mobile - it's non-geographic.

[rpguk]

marshalla said:

07 does not mean mobile - it's non-geographic.

That's true but to the vast majority of cases it is and therefore to the vast majority of people it does.

In fact the only other time I've come across these 'premium' 07 numbers is when I was the victim of a call back scam where I had a missed call and I like to think I'm pretty clued up on these things.

The service has to be paid for of course and I have no problem with that, but if its not a recognisable premium rate number (e.g 0906/0870) then it should be made explicitly clear that there will be a charge above and beyond the normal mobile rate.

Hopefully the PH team get it changed (it'd be a change on the PH site that lists the numbers rather then with phonesafe themselves though surely?)

[hornetrider]

Only a little more than normal call charges? How does that work when most individuals have inclusive call packages/minutes so by and large all calls are free?

Phonesafe is 37.5p a minute from a landline and mobile charges 'may vary'!! I dread to think what mobile providers would charge. What a stty rip-off system.

[Garlick]

Mobile providers do vary. I know that sounds like a BBC competition line but it's true and well worth checking out.

[hornetrider]

Garlick said:

Mobile providers do vary. I know that sounds like a BBC competition line but it's true and well worth checking out.

I'm sorry Garlick but it does sound like corporate toe-the-line BS. Having searched I pulled up a few threads... including this.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

madmaninshed said:

I found a number of calls I made to advertisers on PH via Phonesafe, and the call charges are in my opinion extortionate. One call was 4 seconds and cost 40p, one was 9 mins and cost £2.95 and one was 25 mins and cost £8.06. The service is listed as "free to Pistonheads advertisers" but the person who enquires pays Day: 37.5p Evening: 25.0p Weekend: 12.5p
All prices are pence per minute fom a BT Landline and calls from a mobile or other operator may vary. What a rip-off. In fairness the charges are listed once you click on "What is Phone Safe" but when you see something you want to enquire about, would you think to read all the small print before calling? IMHO there should be a bold note next to the telephone number in the advert stating the charges. Not impressed!!!!

OnTheOverrun said:

Vroomer said:

Buyers who contact a seller through PhoneSafe will be charged only a small amount more than direct calls. The charges are listed below:
Day: 37.5p

Since the 'normal' BT charge per minute for a daytime call is 4.5p, I find Pistonheads claim that the phonesafe service only costs 'a small amount more than direct calls' when in fact it is 830% more a rather dubious claim. I struggle to consider an increase of 830% to be small.

As I say, poor show. When you are calling about numerous cars that adds up very quickly indeed.

[SimonSaid]

Stu R said:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/phonesafe.asp

Personally I think it's a total waste of time anyway, if I'm not calling a landline number I know, or a seller won't provide one, I'd move on to the next ad anyway. I've never had such a situation yet though, and I've always offered my own number as a seller when placing an advert. Works for me, as I see the phonesafe feature as potentially off-putting.

Bear in mind that Phonesafe does actually have a lot of benefits. Just a few days ago The One Show had an item on car classified ads, and the canvassing calls that cause people such distress and monetary loss. Phonesafe blocks the vast majority of these canvassers and other assorted scammers, and the people who run Phonesafe are constantly updating their block list to make sure only genuine callers get through. Whilst no system can be totally perfect, it certainly does protect sellers from most 'undesirables'.

Furthermore, it means that your phone number doesn't get shown online, or on Google searches - one of the many ways that cold calling companies build up databases of numbers, and obviously the way that canvassers get your number.

Finally, there's the handy feature that means once your car is sold and you mark it as sold on your account with us, we can turn off the number, so you won't get annoying calls about a car you've already sold.

We do understand the frustration of people who don't click the logo and read the prices before calling, but it is right next to the number. Also, bear in mind that some mobile phone providers ramp up the cost with their own fees, often inflating the cost of calls significantly. The people who run Phonesafe are looking into this.

[Stu R]

hornetrider said:

Only a little more than normal call charges? How does that work when most individuals have inclusive call packages/minutes so by and large all calls are free?

Phonesafe is 37.5p a minute from a landline and mobile charges 'may vary'!! I dread to think what mobile providers would charge. What a stty rip-off system.

But nobody said it was compulsary to use it, it's an option that costs if the seller opts to utilise.

It took me a few seconds to click the phonesafe logo and see the info regarding charges - is it that big a deal? I've sold a fair few cars and bikes through PH over the years and IIRC every one of the first responses I've had has been via E-Mail anyway. It's hardly keeping Mr Garlic et al wafting around in Veyrons.

[mrmr96]

Does it not announce the cost of the call at the start of the call? That would be a good way to make sure people don't miss the charges?

[Stu R]

SimonSaid said:

Bear in mind that Phonesafe does actually have a lot of benefits. Just a few days ago The One Show had an item on car classified ads, and the canvassing calls that cause people such distress and monetary loss.*snip*

Oh don't get me wrong, I know it's benefits and so on, I just use a phone I'm not bothered about, like a work number I can certainly see why some sellers would find it useful, just I've little cause to use it, as said first contact - as it were - has always been via email for me.

I do agree it could possibly be better publicised as a service (though clicking a link isn't exactly hard) as it clearly irks some folk, but as said it's an optional service anyway so I see no big problem.

Edited by Stu R on Wednesday 7th October 11:44

[dazco]

Just got my bill through with some outrageous charges on.

fking disgusting!!!!!

Fair enough if I clicked the logo. but I didn't, because it is a logo, looks like a logo and looks fk all like a link.

SHOCKING DEVIOUS TACTICS!!!!!!

I thought prices had to be clearly shown

[illmonkey]

3 yeas on and PH havn't made it any clearer? Bad form guys.

The logo is the same size and position as the email one (not clickable BTW, even though the "Email Seller" part is) so they look more like place holders than links.

It is not that hard to put "35ppm - click here for rates" and a link on the page.

I've made many calls via phone safe and never knew the price was that over inflated and I, for one, am pissed off!

[dazco]

illmonkey said:

3 yeas on and PH havn't made it any clearer? Bad form guys.

The logo is the same size and position as the email one (not clickable BTW, even though the "Email Seller" part is) so they look more like place holders than links.

It is not that hard to put "35ppm - click here for rates" and a link on the page.

I've made many calls via phone safe and never knew the price was that over inflated and I, for one, am pissed off!

One went straight to answerphone and I immediately hung up. 68p plus VAT.

I am not letting this lie.

[illmonkey]

dazco said:

illmonkey said:

3 yeas on and PH havn't made it any clearer? Bad form guys.

The logo is the same size and position as the email one (not clickable BTW, even though the "Email Seller" part is) so they look more like place holders than links.

It is not that hard to put "35ppm - click here for rates" and a link on the page.

I've made many calls via phone safe and never knew the price was that over inflated and I, for one, am pissed off!

One went straight to answerphone and I immediately hung up. 68p plus VAT.

I am not letting this lie.

That's not on!

Keep posting, it'll keep it on the "What's New" page!

[geeks]

PH don't set the rates do they? AFAIK If they do not set the rates then they have no obligation to inform you.

I can see why people might be pissed off about it when a bill lands on the doormat but its hardly PH's fault that people don't inquire about the service they are using to contact people!

[illmonkey]

geeks said:

PH don't set the rates do they? AFAIK If they do not set the rates then they have no obligation to inform you.

I can see why people might be pissed off about it when a bill lands on the doormat but its hardly PH's fault that people don't inquire about the service they are using to contact people!

But at least PH could make it a bit more obvious!

It'll drive people away because they feel they are getting caught out.