(PENDING)Phonesafe, Beware!!!!!

[WinstonWolf]

eybic said:

illmonkey said:

No 'rough' price even listed for mobiles. I'll tell you though, its 66p a minute!

I think it varies by operator so it is difficult to list exact prices and prices are always being changed by the mobile operators, for example I saw an advert last night from "3" stating they are no longer charging for 0800 numbers whereas all the others do. We are working on this and it has been given priority, something will be in place shortly to help identify the "phonesafe" box as containing further information about it.

It shouldn't be on a clickthrough, I had no idea Phonesafe is a premium number. It needs to be identified clearly where the number is displayed.

C'mon guys, this is basic UI stuff, display the information where it is needed at the point the user needs to be aware.

[stuartmmcfc]

I was going to place an advert for my car this weekend, now I'm having 2 nd thoughts as calls may now be limited as buyers now know the cost of a call and ,secondly, I've no wish to unwittingly rip the unsuspecting off.

[LordGrover]

stuartmmcfc said:

I was going to place an advert for my car this weekend, now I'm having 2 nd thoughts as calls may now be limited as buyers now know the cost of a call and ,secondly, I've no wish to unwittingly rip the unsuspecting off.

You don't have to use the service.
You could use the service and mention the exorbitant charges in your advert though.

[stuartmmcfc]

LordGrover said:

You don't have to use the service.
You could use the service and mention the exorbitant charges in your advert though.

There's an idea

[BJG1]

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

There isn't a single reason I can think of that stops you committing 10 minutes of a developer's time to fix the issue, other than you deliberately misleading people is making you money. PH have known for 5 years that this is an issue and they've never fixed it. If they're not making money from it they're idiots instead of scammers.

[TankRizzo]

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

I don't disagree that it's a useful service, but I would offer that the amount of negative comments about the transparency of the charges on many different forums means that PH need to do something about it. It would take a dev 5 minutes to put an explanatory div below the button laying out the charges, it's not difficult.

If it's not done after the team are obviously aware then it is for one of two reasons; either a) dev resource is hard to secure (slightly unbelievable) or b) it is in PH's interests not to do so.

[pincher]

Be interesting to see if things change in the next 24 hours.

[Terminator X]

MagicalTrevor said:

Terminator X said:

Charges are obvious and as such I've never used it. If an advert has a phonesafe number I simply move to the next one or email them

TX.

Sorry mate but please can you post a screenshot of that being the case, they are only clear once you click on the unassuming phone safe logo. As I said above, it's not clear that that is a a button/link and therefore unclear.

I mean obvious as in it must be a chargeable service (surely no one assumed phonesafe would be free?) so I don't use it. I don't care if the cost is 1p more or a £1 more or £10 more I simply will not call a phonesafe number + I don't use the service either if I'm placing an advert. With hindsight it appears the right thing to do ...

TX.

[Pixelpeep]

TankRizzo said:

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

I don't disagree that it's a useful service, but I would offer that the amount of negative comments about the transparency of the charges on many different forums means that PH need to do something about it. It would take a dev 5 minutes to put an explanatory div below the button laying out the charges, it's not difficult.

If it's not done after the team are obviously aware then it is for one of two reasons; either a) dev resource is hard to secure (slightly unbelievable) or b) it is in PH's interests not to do so.

I just think it's a tiny issue that has snowballed. Ultimately it's the person who dials the numbers responsibility to check costs before dialing. There is no legal requirement to display costs. There is a logo right next to it that takes you to a page full of information.

'a guide to call costs' might be a nice link next to it rather than the logo if they are short of space, or even just the button image updated with some text.

There is options to email seller direct from the ad too.

I get some people have been 'caught out' but that doesn't make it someone elses responsibility to cover the shortcomings of the caller.

I do see both sides - yes something would be useful, but it really isn't the end of the world if it stays as it is.

[WinstonWolf]

Pixelpeep said:

TankRizzo said:

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

I don't disagree that it's a useful service, but I would offer that the amount of negative comments about the transparency of the charges on many different forums means that PH need to do something about it. It would take a dev 5 minutes to put an explanatory div below the button laying out the charges, it's not difficult.

If it's not done after the team are obviously aware then it is for one of two reasons; either a) dev resource is hard to secure (slightly unbelievable) or b) it is in PH's interests not to do so.

I just think it's a tiny issue that has snowballed. Ultimately it's the person who dials the numbers responsibility to check costs before dialing. There is no legal requirement to display costs. There is a logo right next to it that takes you to a page full of information.

'a guide to call costs' might be a nice link next to it rather than the logo if they are short of space, or even just the button image updated with some text.

There is options to email seller direct from the ad too.

I get some people have been 'caught out' but that doesn't make it someone elses responsibility to cover the shortcomings of the caller.

I do see both sides - yes something would be useful, but it really isn't the end of the world if it stays as it is.

One line, "This is a premium rate number, click here for information" would be a better solution.

[Pixelpeep]

WinstonWolf said:

Pixelpeep said:

TankRizzo said:

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

I don't disagree that it's a useful service, but I would offer that the amount of negative comments about the transparency of the charges on many different forums means that PH need to do something about it. It would take a dev 5 minutes to put an explanatory div below the button laying out the charges, it's not difficult.

If it's not done after the team are obviously aware then it is for one of two reasons; either a) dev resource is hard to secure (slightly unbelievable) or b) it is in PH's interests not to do so.

I just think it's a tiny issue that has snowballed. Ultimately it's the person who dials the numbers responsibility to check costs before dialing. There is no legal requirement to display costs. There is a logo right next to it that takes you to a page full of information.

'a guide to call costs' might be a nice link next to it rather than the logo if they are short of space, or even just the button image updated with some text.

There is options to email seller direct from the ad too.

I get some people have been 'caught out' but that doesn't make it someone elses responsibility to cover the shortcomings of the caller.

I do see both sides - yes something would be useful, but it really isn't the end of the world if it stays as it is.

One line, "This is a premium rate number, click here for information" would be a better solution.

Although not strictly true - i get the point, and agree.

[WinstonWolf]

Pixelpeep said:

WinstonWolf said:

Pixelpeep said:

TankRizzo said:

Pixelpeep said:

I dunno, that seems a little unfair - it's a good, useful service that needs to be paid for somehow?

Also, i think they ended revenue sharing on 070 numbers? clicky

I don't disagree that it's a useful service, but I would offer that the amount of negative comments about the transparency of the charges on many different forums means that PH need to do something about it. It would take a dev 5 minutes to put an explanatory div below the button laying out the charges, it's not difficult.

If it's not done after the team are obviously aware then it is for one of two reasons; either a) dev resource is hard to secure (slightly unbelievable) or b) it is in PH's interests not to do so.

I just think it's a tiny issue that has snowballed. Ultimately it's the person who dials the numbers responsibility to check costs before dialing. There is no legal requirement to display costs. There is a logo right next to it that takes you to a page full of information.

'a guide to call costs' might be a nice link next to it rather than the logo if they are short of space, or even just the button image updated with some text.

There is options to email seller direct from the ad too.

I get some people have been 'caught out' but that doesn't make it someone elses responsibility to cover the shortcomings of the caller.

I do see both sides - yes something would be useful, but it really isn't the end of the world if it stays as it is.

One line, "This is a premium rate number, click here for information" would be a better solution.

Although not strictly true - i get the point, and agree.

Yup, the wording could be improved but it's about providing the user with the information they need at the time they need it.

"This is a Phonesafe number". Meh...
"This is a premium rate number". I really should find out more information...

[KFC]

There is zero chance that the way they are laying out the information complies with the laws surrounding premium rate numbers.

" For example, the Code requires clear and accurate pricing information, honest advertising, and appropriate and targeted promotions."

[Pixelpeep]

WinstonWolf said:

Yup, the wording could be improved but it's about providing the user with the information they need at the time they need it.

"This is a Phonesafe number". Meh...
"This is a premium rate number". I really should find out more information...

Well illustrated.

A lot of blame sits with BT imo. They had this big thing about changing their number prefixes so the caller knew what service they were calling, 0845 lo-cal (which isn't the same as a local call. grr) 0870 (now dead i think) 01, 02 for landlines, 03 for charities, 09 for premium rate and supposedly 07xxx for mobiles.

by doing these personal numbers on the same prefix as mobiles they might as well have left us with 0850 mobiles!

[Pixelpeep]

KFC said:

There is zero chance that the way they are laying out the information complies with the laws surrounding premium rate numbers.

" For example, the Code requires clear and accurate pricing information, honest advertising, and appropriate and targeted promotions."

It is not a premium rate number though.

[KFC]

Pixelpeep said:

It is not a premium rate number though.

66p a minute??? Looks like a premium rate number to me.

[10 Pence Short]

Pixelpeep said:

There is no legal requirement to display costs.

Not sure I agree with that.

Premium rate services ('PRS') are defined by s120 of the Communications Act 2003. Sections 120/121 of this act also give OFCOM the right to create a body and code to regulate PRS, which I believe is called 'PhonepayPlus'.

Part 2 of the Code of Practice requires pricing to be visible before someone commits to it;

Code of Practice 2.2.1 said:

Consumers of premium rate services must be fully and clearly informed
of all information likely to influence the decision to purchase, including
the cost, before any purchase is made.

Code of Practice available here:

http://code.phonepayplus.org.uk/pdf/PhonepayPlusCO...

[ALXJ]

75 p a minute from a mobile, that soon mounts up

[LordGrover]

phoneplayplus said:

070 numbers are regulated by Ofcom. However, PhonepayPlus can investigate services on these numbers if they are found to offer premium rate-style services and/or the number is being misused and if the cost of the call exceeds 10p per minute.

My bold.
Taken from here.

[illmonkey]

LordGrover said:

phoneplayplus said:

070 numbers are regulated by Ofcom. However, PhonepayPlus can investigate services on these numbers if they are found to offer premium rate-style services and/or the number is being misused and if the cost of the call exceeds 10p per minute.

My bold.
Taken from here.

They can't ignore this, good work.