(PENDING)Phonesafe, Beware!!!!!
Discussion
Podie said:
This thread is a corker.
In any other field it'd be "caveat emptor" or "you clicked on a random link and gave your bank details, you plank" or "it's clearly a Nigerian scam" - how come dialing a number without checking it is going to cost you is creating such a stink?
Ooh, look a payday loan, that sounds like a good idea!
Because (naïvely it seems) we expect more from PH then we would from a Nigerian scammer.In any other field it'd be "caveat emptor" or "you clicked on a random link and gave your bank details, you plank" or "it's clearly a Nigerian scam" - how come dialing a number without checking it is going to cost you is creating such a stink?
Ooh, look a payday loan, that sounds like a good idea!
They have deliberately chosen to hide the charges as they know they'd lose money if they were upfront.
It's unethical and their response that it 'only' makes a few hundred for them a month is incredibly offensive especially when you consider that this profit of a few hundred will almost certainly be costing customers thousands per month.
rpguk said:
Because (naïvely it seems) we expect more from PH then we would from a Nigerian scammer.
They have deliberately choosen to hide the charges as they know they'd lose money if they were upfront. Unethical and their response that it 'only' makes a few hundred for them a month is incredibly offensive especially when you consider that this profit of a few hundred will almost certainly be costing customers thousands per month.
They have deliberately choosen to hide the charges as they know they'd lose money if they were upfront. Unethical and their response that it 'only' makes a few hundred for them a month is incredibly offensive especially when you consider that this profit of a few hundred will almost certainly be costing customers thousands per month.
RossP said:
Except this is PH, a website that we all feel we are part of as a community, so we trust it.
It's a commercial website - on what grounds do you not EXPECT them to make money? The days of it being run from a shed are long gone.I'm waiting for the subsequent thread where someone complains they're selling a car and they keep getting canvassers...
Podie said:
It's a commercial website - on what grounds do you not EXPECT them to make money? The days of it being run from a shed are long gone.
I'm waiting for the subsequent thread where someone complains they're selling a car and they keep getting canvassers...
I'm waiting for the subsequent thread where someone complains they're selling a car and they keep getting canvassers...
I have no problem whatsoever with them making money.
10 Pence Short said:
If the service herr matches the statutory definition of a premium rate service, which ut does, then the question is whether the legislation is being circumvented by OFCOM. That is not PH's problem, other than it is a less than decent way to do business.
If they advertised the service to potential car purchasers as something they pay for for the benefit of the seller, I doubt they'd get much take up. This perhaps explains why this fact and the charges are hidden.
If people felt an enquiry about a vehicle for sale would add £10 to their phone bill, I doubt many would bother. I wouldn't.
Can you point me to this other statutory definition of a premium rate service?If they advertised the service to potential car purchasers as something they pay for for the benefit of the seller, I doubt they'd get much take up. This perhaps explains why this fact and the charges are hidden.
If people felt an enquiry about a vehicle for sale would add £10 to their phone bill, I doubt many would bother. I wouldn't.
Given that Ofcom are responsible for categorising the various number groups and definitions, I think using their definition is pretty reasonable.
Fools & their money rscott said:
Can you point me to this other statutory definition of a premium rate service?
Given that Ofcom are responsible for categorising the various number groups and definitions, I think using their definition is pretty reasonable.
It's in s120 of the Communications Act 2003.Given that Ofcom are responsible for categorising the various number groups and definitions, I think using their definition is pretty reasonable.
OFCOM recognise that use of 070 numbers can be psuedo PRS and PhonepayPlus can investigate 070 numbers where the call charges are over a certain limit.
I don't think anyone is against Haymarket providing services through PH to make a commercial gain. I don't think there's any doubt in the concept of keeping your personal number safe when selling a car through PH.
Where there is difference of opinion is whether the person ringing the number should be informed of the potential cost of the call before they commit to making it. My own opinion is that there should be information next to the displayed number indicating this is a service that attracts additional costs on top of a normal call, with an indication of the cost ranges.
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of Phonesafe itself, it's also worth pointing out that a large percentage of the blame should also be directed at the mobile operators. Phonesafe never charges 75ppm - That is your mobile operator adding another 40ppm on top of the normal charges and keeping all of it. (Just like how Vodafone charges me 20ppm to call 0800 numbers and refuses to take it out of my "unlimited" minutes)
Mr Will said:
Regardless of the rights and wrongs of Phonesafe itself, it's also worth pointing out that a large percentage of the blame should also be directed at the mobile operators. Phonesafe never charges 75ppm - That is your mobile operator adding another 40ppm on top of the normal charges and keeping all of it. (Just like how Vodafone charges me 20ppm to call 0800 numbers and refuses to take it out of my "unlimited" minutes)
Forgive me for saying so, but I imagine you knew the costs to the consumer before you put the service in place. By all means blame the telecoms companies for making it an expensive service, but they can't take the blame for your failure to display those charges to the consumer.10 Pence Short said:
Forgive me for saying so, but I imagine you knew the costs to the consumer before you put the service in place. By all means blame the telecoms companies for making it an expensive service, but they can't take the blame for your failure to display those charges to the consumer.
They are quite clearly laid out in the PhoneSafe details
10 Pence Short said:
OFCOM recognise that use of 070 numbers can be psuedo PRS and PhonepayPlus can investigate 070 numbers where the call charges are over a certain limit.
Not quite - according to the PhonepayPlus website, they can investigate 070 numbers where they are being misused AND the call charges are over a certain limit. PH's use of them for the classifieds is identical to the example usage Ofcom give in several of their documents.
ali_kat said:
They are quite clearly laid out in the PhoneSafe details
Vaud said:
Mr Will said:
(Just like how Vodafone charges me 20ppm to call 0800 numbers and refuses to take it out of my "unlimited" minutes)
If you have a home BT line, look up BT Smarttalk app. 10 Pence Short said:
The only charges I see listed are through a link away from the advert and they only detail BT landline charges and not those from mobiles. If I am searching the classifieds and see an advert I want to call, there is nothing at this point to indicate I will face high call charges.
AFAIK There is no way for PH or even Phonesafe themselves to know what the charges will be on your particular mobile tariff and even if there was it would be extremely confusing to display as it varies on a per tariff (not per operator) basis.LordGrover said:
I think Mr Will has moved on to greener pastures.
I could put a note in my office window, but I doubt it would help at all
10 Pence Short said:
ali_kat said:
They are quite clearly laid out in the PhoneSafe details
Everyone knows calls from mobiles are more expensive
Really? As I've said before - if a blonde female knows that it's going to cost £££ surely the rest of PH will!
ali_kat said:
A link away = still clearly laid out that only a fool would miss
Everyone knows calls from mobiles are more expensive
Really? As I've said before - if a blonde female knows that it's going to cost £££ surely the rest of PH will!
You seem intent on calling everyone fools and making out that you're smarter than most buyers - do you actually have anything meaningful to contribute to this thread?Everyone knows calls from mobiles are more expensive
Really? As I've said before - if a blonde female knows that it's going to cost £££ surely the rest of PH will!
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